W less angry with me, but not ready for piecing

[Lian]

Hi Lan,

Your vivid description got me thinking... I would kill for a hug like that at the moment.
And yes, I agree with you, that is real progress, "actions speak louder than words", right?

Take care
Kalni

ME TOO

[Lanzo]

W inadvertently game me a barometer check on her feelings, and my guess is she's not ready for R talks. (may never be).

Well this morning W said to me "I'm always tired in the mornings why's that ?" I told her that the last 6 months have been stressful for both of us and it's all probably catching up on you. And we left it at that.

Later in the morning W calls me at work and ask's was I having a dig at her about being tired, and what's been happening to us recently. I told her I wasn't having a dig, but what I was saying, I believe it to be truthful. Then I said to her I'm not really going to skirt around things that have happened, "I am allowed to talk the truth aren't I ?". W reluctantly said "I guess so".

Once we got over that W was back to discussing what movies we'd be watching next weekend. This weekend is interrupted cos W best friend has invited herself over for dinner. W is a bit peed by that cos it's interrupting our "quality time". In the dark times W would have used this as an opportunity for girl talk and excluded me from the house. But now she just wants to spend that time with me.

Funny how things change.

[Kalni]

Hey Lans,

If I were you I wouldn't mind if she ever got to talk R with me as long as the way you two are moving on continued (OK my English grammar is failing me here, please forgive me). You are doing all the steps but with no words yet.

"Now she just wants to spend that time with me"? That alone should make you feel great, what a boost!!

Keep it up!
Kalni

[Forrest Gump]

Quick input. She will pull away. Falling into old patterns she is. You will do something wrong. Don't follow the easy path. That little inner voice will tell you what to do. Breaking the ice is just like someone else said you gotta stick it out a little. I have laid in the bed with the same thing. After about 10 times I had to do something about it. I did not force myself/wants on her but I started to take things into my own hands. A little while later she participated. Can't say it will work for you but it was just something that worked for me. Not sure that was DB ing but. The trip to the gym was breaking the ice. When your talking see what the limits are. Its a fine line. Just because she is happier does not mean you are. You will both have to be happy or back here you will be.

[Lanzo]

Hi Forrest,

I hear what you're saying. For me W has to open the door a little before I can enter. But I understand the meaning about testing things to the limit.

Lan

[Lanzo]

Hi Kalni,

This again is a little circular discussion which I've had on this board, I for one would like to have some closured on what has happen. I mean what's to stop me from having some form of outburst in the future about how shes cheated on me and done me wrong. How do I know all what's gone on with OM has ended, she may know this in her head but what do I know. Also W has just shown her nervousness about discussing anything delicate so unless we have closure she'll always have this hanging over her.

So at the moment I take all the good things that are happening and I will take the advice given to me on this board.

Just go with the flow for now. She'll let you know when she's ready to talk.

Ultimately I would like to have closure so the two of us can definitely say we've put everything to bed.

[bhopeful]

I mean what's to stop me from having some form of outburst in the future about how shes cheated on me and done me wrong.

Once you've really forgiven her, you won't feel the need to ever do this. Forgiving doesn't mean burying the feelings though. If you don't deal with the feelings you will explode. Here's a good article on forgiveness: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/forgiveness/MH00131

How do I know all what's gone on with OM has ended, she may know this in her head but what do I know.

You're going to have to build trust in her again. This will take time. In my situation my W didn't have a PA, but somewhat of an EA. I've come to a point were I don't need to know everything that they did together. It would actually hurt more to know it all. I've been able to find peace with the situation. If she's willing to recommit to our R and be a loving and caring W, then that's enough for me. Maybe you need more from her for your own closure, but I think that you really need to work on forgiveness before you can work on trust.

Remember, forgiveness is more for you. You can't live with the hurt and resentment. They will keep you down.

May there be peace in your mind, heart and life,
B

[Lanzo]

Hey behopeful,

You've made me think again. Too be honest I don't think I've forgiven W yet.

For me to forgive I'd need to see her re commit. I don't need a full confession, I don't need an admission of guilt, I don't need the gory details, I just want honest commitment. At the moment I don't see this, I see her tiptoeing back into an R with me but leaving herself an out. That's what happened two year ago. I forgave her, she re commited for a while but ran back to OM when things got tough. In fact she may never have broken off with OM and he's been in the back ground all this time, I don't know. That's why I am wary, that's why I'm on my guard, that's why I may have an out burst if we don't have final closure.

I have it in me to forgive, does she have in her to recommit. It's that simple.

PS I hope this doesn't come across as a rant.

[bhopeful]

You may have slightly missed my point. Forgiveness is for you. It should not be based on her actions or inactions. It's sort of like unconditional love. You can't say "I will love you if..." and still have unconditional love. If she never recommits and this all ends in a D, you still have to forgive her for your own sake. Harboring the resentment is like a slow poison and it will begin to cloud all of your relationships.

That being said, just because you forgive her doesn't mean that she automatically has a free pass or that she doesn't need to recommit to the M in order for you to reconcile. Forgiveness and reconciliation are separate things and should be treated as such.

This is just my take on things. It's definitely easier to write about than to live it, but this is how I'm approaching life and it seems to be working for me. Take it for what you will.

B

[Heimlich]

Lanzo,

I don't think you should link the two things: you forgiving her and her recommitting. Holding on to the anger hurts no one but yourself and the possibility of saving your marriage. I know from my experience that I said that I had forgiven and wasn't blaming my W while we were actively trying to reconcile from Oct of 06 to April of last year. I sortof had, but not really and had an undercurrent of blame towards her for all that had happened. Among other issues, that was something that pushed her to the whole ILYBNILWY thing last April.

Let it go. Forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting, but it does mean letting go of the anger, acknowledging that your W made a mistake (I found owning my role in the failure of the M allowed me to really forgive my W for everything), and stopping the blame.

Just my 1 penny thought for the day.

BD