The Great Wall Part II

[Stigmata]

Post deleted by sgctxok

[Stigmata]

Yeah, I figured as much.

I guess I didn't make it clear enough when I said not to be an "understanding doormat."

So you think putting H in the role of parent and throwing a foot stomping tantrum over the same old topic like a little girl who isn't getting her way to be the best solution huh?

I might agree if she were GEL or Fran. (I don't think you are a passive wallflower, Karen, don't even go there with me.) The problem is you have to back it up. Are you telling me this approach is going to have real teeth and sink in to a man firmly in charge of his household?

H appears completely disconnected and rolling around on a bed and acting like a crazed lioness or jumping monkey will probably be checked off as crazy woman hormones and I would think scare off what appears to be an already sexually avoidant male. Getting to a regular sex life via anger and no teeth to back it up vibes, Ooo, look at pizzed-off Medusa there yelling at me with all her writhing snakey hair. Hot.

Weird too. Here she has been carrying on like everything's fine these past 8 or so months and out of the Fing blue I come home to a red-faced woman with fire coming out of her eyes. WTF? Shouldn't she have at least kept me in the loop that she has been seething with resentment? WTF?

Guess we couldn't have an adult grown-up face-to-face heart-to heart no distractions serious "State of the M" discussion.

I did not say to coddle this guyWhy on Earth would you think I would encourage that? Was it the MB comment? Okay, so if his MB on any level bothers you then just say so. Why hasn't there been an open dialogue as to how often you both do it?

I was going for trust, candor, and openness, not "mommy does it too, little boy." How dare you think H can't have an adult man-to-woman conversation and instead go and regulate him to some kind of puppy boy. Oh, no, if there's one vibe I'm getting from her R it's not that Karen is the parent and poor baby boy is the child in this dynamic.

IMO he is a jungian king of his castle and quite a responsible father and provider.

I feel he is in what I will call the "king's conundrum." Where he has grown fat and complacent and over time his harem of 50 gorgeous Fs are not his main focus as they vainly dance around him and stroke him as he brushes them away holding his big stinkin turkey leg. Funny how that was so hot his first day as king but now, like all LTRs, it's taken for granted.

Oh, yes, I can see it. The 50 angry Fs huddle in another room then come at him en masse in shrill angry resentment when he had no conscious awareness he was hurting their feelings since they never bothered over the past year to have a heart-to-heart -- calm and very very direct, "you're harem is unhappy; this is the dealbreaker so you'd better pay attention."

Sorry. It seems to me there is a time and place for histrionics and pot throwing but you have to get to the Fing source cause of the Fing problem first.

Does Karen know EXACTLY where her H stands on sex, feelings about sex, feelings about regularity, feelings on restraint, bondage, hair-pulling, anal sex, submission, dominance, kink, swallowing or not swallowing, times of most horniness -- mornings, afternoons, or evenings? No? Why the F not?

I said to be DIRECT. Not to let him off the hook.

Tell me, ladies, have you ever backed someone into a literal corner and invaded his or her space bubble and just glared at (him in this case) with an, "If you move, I will kill you -- look carefully into my eyes and see that I am deadly serious stare?

A very very serious, "we have a big problem here and we are going to cut to the chase or very bad things will ensue."

The first reaction is for the corneree to try and escape or talk his way out of it. But when you push even closer and make it very clear there will be no avoiding the problem then the floor is yours and you suddenly have a very attentive audience.

So which guy do you think is going to hang on my every word more -- this guy I just described or the guy who listens to me shouting ad hominen attacks, threats and obscenities at him from across the room? When he had no idea I even had such a huge angry beef with him in the first place?

That's what I meant by a very direct, we are resolving this once and for all approach.

"She shouldn't be NICE, Stigmata." Yuck ... nice nice nice. Ptooey. Don't put words in my white-fanged mouth.

Don't tell me you Fs don't know that one of your icy cold hard stares doesn't cut us to the bone much better than throwing some kind of temper tantrum.

I said I was concerned Karen would back down from such a explosion of back and forth fireworks.

And why do I say this? Because she said poit blank she is afraid H would leave her. So, tell me, what if he got up and pointed to the door: I've had it. You're out of control. If you don't like who I am, there's the door." See her walking right then? Hmmm? Think's she's at that point mentally and emotionally? Ie, the dealbreaker?

Of course I believe in letting loose. When you are ready to WALK no matter what. Let's OP know you are not bullsh!tting and it's reached the point of no return.

So do you think Karen is ready to pack her bags, throw her ring at her H and walk? Hmm? I don't. But if she does reach that point I would encourage her to let loose on him full bore, pack some bags, get in her car, turn off her cell, and drive the F to a hotel in Ft. Lauderdale after said ring-throwing.

So I don't buy what you're selling at this point. that dog don't hunt.

That's why I said if you don't have a dealbreaker in your R and your GD life is GD miserable over a huge issue you had better find one and find one fast. See this? This is my Fing dealbreaker. I do NOT budge on this one. Ohhhh no. Am I making myself perfectly clear?

Blech. I am not encouraging good nice cow or whatever the hell animal the female nurturer is to say, good puppy, bad puppy.

I'm saying get the F honest and down to brass tacks with complete candor and forceful-without-anger directness.

So, tell me, Karen. How many times a day/week does H MB? You don't know? Why?

What are his feelings about submission and dominance and gender roles? You don't know? Why?

How many times a week does he think you should be having sex? It's unclear? Why?

And, although I despise schedules, when have you sat together and gone over a schedule of when and how many times you both will hold yourselves to having sex, no matter what distractions/tiredness come up? Why?

If you have and you haven't held his nose to it. Why?

I may have missed if you have done all of these things as I don't have time to read online MBs. but it seems to me you don't have a full and complete blueprint of EXACTLY how H feels about lovemaking, the act of sex, the meaningfulness of sex, the entirety of all things sex, and how he gets his releases (porn, MB or otherwise)

Yes, call me a fruitcake for thinking it better to go into battle first with every scrap of intelligence and knowledge about every single (deep, dark and otherwise) sentiment, urge, feeling, philosphy, religiosity, lust, love, bonding, validation, commitment et al in terms of a healthy happy sex life for both partners.

When you have all of that info and picked the GD guy's sexually blocked brain clean then have at it in your displays of forced enticement, shouting matches, plate smashings and on and on. by all means, have at it and I will gladly volunteer to shout anger-inciting and Karen-juicing ra rahs from my bullhorn.

I didn't say be NICE. I said "loving." You can be loving and a total hard azz -- Dr. Dobson calls it tough love, as you all know already. come on, you're a smart, albeit, crazy bunch.

Ooo. Puff of smoke from ears. Boy. You gals are really making my Monday. I think I'll go eat a real bloody raw steak for lunch now to soothe myself and throttle down.

Yours eternally,

-Stigmata-

[Corri]

Stig:

Stop yelling/roaring in MY ear; it makes it very difficult for us to continue our serious discussion. And all that stuff you said up there is quite understandable and even makes tons of sense. Now, IF you are a woman who communicates exactly like a man, I can see Karen doing exactly as you say.

[LustForLife]

"If you move, I will kill you -- look carefully into my eyes and see that I am deadly serious stare?

ooohhhh..that's good.
I'm going to try that on H tonight.


As for the rest of your post, my eyes just glazed over.

LFL

[MJontheMend]

Does Karen know EXACTLY where her H stands on sex, feelings about sex, feelings about regularity, feelings on restraint, bondage, hair-pulling, anal sex, submission, dominance, kink, swallowing or not swallowing, times of most horniness -- mornings, afternoons, or evenings? No? Why the F not?

While I agree that Karen should know these things in order to be a GGG partner and that her H should be sharing these things in order to be a GGG partner, she's not going to get what she wants sexually by concerning herself with what her H wants specifically sexually. It's her job to get what she wants. If he doesn't want to give it to her or he wants something different then it is his job to communicate that. Otherwise, she's just going to end up like the chubby little chick who followed John Travolta around offering to give him a blow-job in Saturday Night Fever. Trust me. BTDT. Does NOT work.

[Corri]

That's kind of why I said that Karen should fck her H silly; go for what SHE wants/can TAKE from the situation; not perform in order to get her H to GIVE her what she wants.

Big dif.

[MJontheMend]

That's kind of why I said that Karen should fck her H silly; go for what SHE wants/can TAKE from the situation; not perform in order to get her H to GIVE her what she wants.

Big dif.

We're almost on the same page. I'm just saying that if she "f*cks "her H, she's not getting what she wants which is "to be f*cked". Of course, there's not much practical difference between high, strong monkey and lioness in terms of actual behavior so...For instance, was I being monkey or lioness when I rubbed up against my 2bx's *ss with my clit? I suppose if I wasn't prepared to reach round and get him hard and climb on board and take myself to completion, it was monkey. The thing I discovered, however, was that me taking the dominant role wasn't the answer because if my 2bx's natural physical drive was 3x a week, his desire to be dominated sexually was maybe only 1x a week. There was no way we were ever going to reach 3x with me in the dominant role without him becoming *ss-protecting. He wanted to be more dominant but he just didn't have "the jam" as he himself put it.

[Corri]

We're almost on the same page. I'm just saying that if she "f*cks "her H, she's not getting what she wants which is "to be f*cked".

That's the power play, fer shore.

Dominance doesn't get her what she wants. Neither does 'angry mother' or 'pouty girl.' And that's when I head in a different direction, totally. She may not 'get fcked' in return, immediately, but... that's just where you've got to be patient in spite of yourself... and understand that bad behavior is never, ever rewarded.

[karen1]

Wow, all. There are some interesting ideas bandied about on here. Some I take issue with.

Why don't I know more details about H's sexual predilections - because he hasn't wanted to share them. I have asked and he has gotten all icky uncomfortable and been unable to say more than, "Yeah, I jack off what of it? It is normal for all men and women." Wouldn't say what kind of fantasy material, photos or whatever is involved. Anal - doesn't seem so, said that he had no interest. Frequency? Won't commit due to the issue of "flexibility" which is why he outright refused a schedule. His answer to my questioning of his likes/dislikes was to buy a Better Sex video series which we watched once, I got all horny and fcuked him on the couch during the thing and he NEVER ONCE tried anything we saw on there nor did he mention it again. Scared him how horny I was, I think. Won't discuss gender roles or postions or anything else - he says "I'm a one trick pony."

I don't think I come off as Mommy to H. H is the undisputed King of this castle. I think I come off as "hormonal female who will get over it". I back down and then he is good to go to do nothing some more.

And Corri - I have just fcuked him silly (took what I wanted) and at times that has worked out, at others he has laid there like a corpse and it has been difficult to stay with my own vibe (a'la Schnarch I can think the encounter was good even if my partner thinks it was ho hum). I think that I would have been better to have stopped and called H on it then and there but that did seem "motherly" so I didn't. Too many times like that seemed to build a resentment in him so I stopped.

As for the Monkey idea he would not shame me, he would not be sarcastic. I think he would just look at me like the out of line toddler and conclude that he would not reward that toddler with candy. Probably walk out the door until I "got over it".

Let me clarify. I am not afraid that he would leave. I know what I said read that way. I am afraid the he would consider leaving, conclude it wasn't worth the trouble and just shut down even more. The thing is that if his brain got around to the whole "She's gone crazy, is a raging beast-woman, maybe I should leave thing" then I'm not sure there is any going back. H won't leave because of "the vow" unless there is some really extreme circumstance. Hating my guts doesn't qualify. He has some strange issues with women once they get on his "not to be trusted" list.

For those of you (Dom) who think I am leaving or have in any way threatened H - I'm not going anywhere and saying that I'm just about done being the woman he married if this is the way I am being asked to live is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than saying I'm leaving. It is saying that my body is staying but my heart and mind are reaching capacity.

I am beginning to think that the single biggest contribution to my own failure that I have made and continue making is in not stating the obvious to H, over and over and over and over. Fcuk him, don't fcuk him, act monkey, act lioness - doesn't really matter what matters is that until he takes me seriously we aren't getting anywhere. I have wanted to avoid being the nag, the Mommy, the therapist so much that I haven't known how to address all his non-doing. H is rarely disrespectful, never sarcastic and when he is sh*tty I have no problem pointing it out and saying stop it - he does although sometimes he will stop only after defending his "right" to be a rat b@stard if he feel moved to do so.

H is no shrinking violet in our home and I am no shrinking violet there either. Yes, we both know how to pull our verbal punches so as not to inflict harm that isn't necessary but we say what needs said - EXCEPT WITH SEX. I don't think that there is any Mommy/Daddy vibe but more of a business partner thing which is certainly no sexier than Mom/Dad. I guess the mantra we both must be having in our head is "Don't sh*t where you live" whereas the one I need to have is Tom Petty's "Don't Back Down."

Karen

[MJontheMend]

Dominance doesn't get her what she wants. Neither does 'angry mother' or 'pouty girl.' And that's when I head in a different direction, totally. She may not 'get fcked' in return, immediately, but... that's just where you've got to be patient in spite of yourself... and understand that bad behavior is never, ever rewarded.

Oh, we're still on the same page. That's why I said there's little difference between high monkey and lioness. Flip-flop, flop-flip etc. Little difference to me whether I make a guy like GP roll his eyes towards Jesus due to my teasing monkey ways and then haul me down the hallway or get pinned down directly by a guy like NG and made to orgasm 3x and then I need to even the score somewhat or what you are suggesting. But in order to make things explode you need the TNT and you need the spark and it's just not going to happen if one partner alone has to bring both and the fact is that even really HD girls usually got more spark than TNT. If a guy is sparking his TNT with porn or low on supply due to border-line alcoholism or depression or anxiety or shame or etc. etc. not much a girl can do.