You saw what I did 2 years ago. I fixed her. She WAS broken
Here is your problem. You didn't fix anything because YOU CAN'T fix other people. You can't fix your wife and your attempts to fix her are just keeping her from having to face the full consequences of her bad choices.
You carry a huge weight around on your shoulders thinking that you are responsible for all of these other people and their problems. Let go of that weight. You are not responsible for other peoples choices. You are only responsible for your own.
It is not your fault that you were abandoned as a child to a mean vindictive old woman. It is not your fault that she died and you weren't there.
It is an illusion that you can control and fix all of these people in your life. You can't! It may seem that way for awhile but it is only temporary. As is evidenced by where you and your wife find yourselves again. You are going to repeat this scenario over and over again in your life until you finally learn to let go and allow others to fail. It won't make you any less of a person it will actually allow you to grow and heal. Let your wife go. Let her live with her choices. Don't keep living with this illusion that you can fix her. YOu can't. You didn't. You just delayed her from facing herself.
And now you are just diverting your attention away from the real issue in your life which is you.
ST
At the bar the Judge will not look us over for medals, degrees, or diplomas, but for scars. - Hugh B. Brown
I'm going to share some observations, knowing full well that I perhaps have not earned the right to express them. I can only say Frank that I think a great deal of you as a man, and it truly breaks my heart to hear the pain that you are living with. If you, or any of those close to you, would like me to remove these observations, say the word and I will delete the post.
Now then,
...your hypothetical post from your wife almost sounds like she has been DB'ing YOU.
...on the other hand, at the very least, it can definitely be said that she has DONE very little on behalf of the two of you
...at the same time she certainly has had no compunction about doing things for OTHER men
...is she done? could she be done? I thought we counseled new members here to assume that it is lost, to focus on themselves, and see what happens in the future
...when did we get in the business of predicting the future anyway? when did we start answering questions that aren't answerable? and when did trying to do so stop constituting poor DB'ing?
...and I learned from you, and FIB, and Jeff, that DB'ing was not about the marriage, but about me
...drinking, depression, and obsessing over things we cannot/do not control is bad stuff, and is infinitely more worthy of your time and attention than trying to do the impossible - change another person
...you're absolutely right and justified to be morally outraged about messing with a married man, and your nose is NOT off either. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc..
...and this may be strong but, you need space from this woman Frank, serious space.
I agree wholeheartedly with AmyC that your wife is a serious liability to you right now. You are too caught up in HER and YOU. Once again it's the old LBS scenario. She's ready to go, she's processed it, found relative peace with it. You are caught by surprise to some extent and are forced to come to peace with it while enduring her new found "happiness." Bad scenario in my opinion.
I never bought in to the notion that having them at home was better than having them gone. Too much pain. Too much pressure. Too much temptation to do all those things that only impair any positive future relationship.
Frank, I wish I could say something that would help.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
...and this may be strong but, you need space from this woman Frank, serious space.
I agree wholeheartedly with AmyC that your wife is a serious liability to you right now. You are too caught up in HER and YOU. Once again it's the old LBS scenario. She's ready to go, she's processed it, found relative peace with it. You are caught by surprise to some extent and are forced to come to peace with it while enduring her new found "happiness." Bad scenario in my opinion.
Blessings,
Bill
Thanks Bill, and others. As much as it hurts I do need to get space from her.
Can I sleep in the same bed with her? I guess so for now. It's better to 'fake it' a little longer if it will keep pressure of the girls. But they are intuitive and likely to catch on and ask W what's up. She (and they) can use the 'Dad is stressed out / depressed / whatever' excuse for a while.
Can I interact with her? So far. She's playing the "I don't want to come into your personal space without an invitation" game. Meaning even if my office door is OPEN she stops and says 'Knock Knock!' in her cutesy voice, then says "I'm coming into your personal space". It irritates me. I told her she doesn't have to do that so she stopped.
She's back to 'acting happy' again. Why? Who knows. I could start making up reasons, 'affair happiness', 'freedom from my issues', whatever. Clearly she isn't coming back any time soon.
Was I hopeful? Sure. I said some powerful stuff to her this morning about us working together. I was hoping that maybe she would have ONE friend who might say to her "Hey, you know you really have a good man there and you should be with him picking you BOTH up". Maybe someone did and she didn't care. Doesn't matter.
Letting her go is only as hard as I make it. I'm being pleasant in my interactions while also stopping the negative thoughts of what she MIGHT be doing and what she MIGHT be thinking.
There are no more pictures of she and I on my wall. Instead there are the 'awards' and some pictures of my girls and I. This is what really defines me - my accomplishments and my babies. Not my wife.
I told one of my supportive men that I started to feel sorry for her, that the fact that she only sees the potential for happiness with OTHER men, and that she is flirting with a MARRIED man is so, so sad. The attraction of the EA is pretty strong and I don't expect it to go away soon, nor am I going to check up on it because it will only hurt me.
Wouldn't it be surprising if her 'friend' got some moral clarity and told her she should fix her marriage? Maybe we can pray for that.
I've started to forgive myself for my role in this. Like Bill and others have said, "what did she DO to help your cause?" Not much really, just be hurt along with me.
My counselor finally called me a little while ago. She asked me how I am and said to me "Probably not so good if you're talking to me now". She didn't have time to talk so we scheduled a time for next Thursday. I know she will help me find my spirit again, my strength.
We will NOT try to 'save' my wife or my marriage this time. Only me.
Do I love my wife? Yes. Does she love me? Probably.
Becca said the following about this which I believe is probably true:
- She can't just 'leave', I'm her support system and she's likely to not feel confident or safe without me or someone else to take on that role.
- She probably still loves me but believes she has no other choice but to leave. I haven't 'fixed myself', she can't, and so she sees no other choice. When I fix myself she may decide to take the chance one more time. I may decide to let her.
So, here I am. It hurts a bit but I am making my 'lists' of what I need to do, and I'm putting myself at the feet of my fellow 'old timers' on the board, asking for clarity and help.
W just came in and asked me what I wanted for dinner since she asked D17 who was 'no help'. Told her spaghetti and she cheerfully went off to the store to get the ingredients. We're all happy here.
What do I need to do right now. ------------------------------- Take frank away from my wife, fire her, get some serious EMOTIONAL distance from her. Be coordial and friendly and that's it. Let God handle her life. She says she is 'in touch' with God, well then he can handle her issues. No more checking messages or phone logs. I almost did today but stopped myself. I don't need to know what she's doing any more because it will ONLY cause PAIN. Close the door to my heart and move forward. Once you let go they cant hurt you any more. Forgive myself for my faults in this relationship. It's past now and the future will be what I create. Live life on my own, doing what I want, what makes me happy. Take care of my kids. Realize that working on myself is not the same as giving up. Let go of the weight. I am not responsible for other peoples choices. I am only responsible for your own. Learn to let go and allow others to fail. Take personal responsibility when things don’t go as planned. Determine what work projects can be salvaged now and work on them instead of putting energy elsewhere. Re-engage myself in the hobbies I used to like. Get healthier. Let go of fear. Believe that there is no single person who can 'love me'. There are many as evidenced by the outpouring of love on the DB board. I'm not alone unless I choose to be.
What is a wife to me? --------------------- A person I cherish. Someone who can support me when I'm down by being a real partner and problem solving with me. Someone who can take the initiative when I can't. A friend who knows me well. Someone I can trust to never leave me when times are bad. A person who feels good about themself without needing me to give them that feeling all the time. A good lover. A person who values my love. A financial partner who doesn't expect me to fix everything and can come to the table when needed.
It really is an ugly situation. She sees a man who is happy with his wife. I assume this is her idea of a "fixed" man. So she innocently sets about trying to steal him. She is innocent. She is just dropping her hankerchief, so to speak. Subtly encouraging him, but waiting for him to take the lead. Not really so innocent from my vantage point. I'd feel a need to alert the wife that there are games afoot. But that is just me. I'm sure most others would disagree.
What have you, in the past, told me when it appeared that I would make excuses for XW? Now stop making excuses for her and start rebuilding Frank D. This is no longer about her nor you and her, this is about you. Your right, you will be OK. And some of us will follow you through hell and back to make sure if it.
You're right of course, there are no more excuses to be made for her. She has a responsibility to the marriage also.
But one thing you pointed out in our talk tonight bears repeating: I stood for her when she was having an affair and being destructive to herself and the kids. I used my last ounce of strength to bring her back from that abyss, after she was sure she had destroyed everything. The fact that I loved and sacrificed selflessly for someone who was hurting me is something I can and should be proud of.
As you said to me - "Only you could have done that. She doesn't really appreciate it or understand what your sacrifice meant"
No, she doesn't. If she did we would be in therapy now instead of where we are.
Theo fits the bill although I can't vouch for the being a good lover bit and he will INSIST on the orange spandex and you gotta know he will wear a kilt at the ceremony and appear on a white steed.........
If you can cope with that then you have another option.
ps. I'll lend him one of my many whips if that helps......oh and some hancuffs......( I know, us Brits are a bit weird..... )
Please smile Frank.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
I'm new to this whole deal (only 6 months since bomb) and not really in a position to give any advice since I'm still learning to do the things myself.
But I will say this, you're a good person Frank. Keep going, you have a good set of friends watching your back, ready to help (with a 2x4 when needed).
Me: 35 W: 34 S8 & S5 M: 11 IDLY: 08/2007
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin, Me and Bobby McGee
"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it is about dancing in the rain!"