Thank you Becca for coming and posting. Of everyone here you know you're the one I relate to the most.
This really is about Frank. And I don't control her, maybe she leaves, maybe not. One of my best friends of 22 years said she seems like she is a bit 'high maintenance' since she expects that I can carry her through tough times, but she cannot carry me.
He gave me some examples of how his Wife has supported him during some difficult times he went through when he was unemployed for 8 months. I listened and I realized what real 'support' looks like and I can allow myself to say that my wife was not truly supportive - because support means to TAKE ACTION.
His example: He was stuck, drinking, playing video games and basically not doing anything to find a job because his self esteem was in the crapper. She basically sits him down with a notepad and some ideas on places they could live where he could find a job, and they start coming up with the pro's and con's of these places. She helps put together an 'action plan' and they start moving towards a goal.
He was resistant at first, but she was enthusiastic and wasn't going to let him just walk away from the discussion. Then SHE followed up with some of the actions needed.
This is so much in sync with the stuff I posted yesterday about people who get stuck in anxiety and how they need to be shown that they DO have some control over their life so they can pull themselves out of it.
This did NOT happen with us. She would ask me 'so how are you doing on project x?' which of course I wasn't doing ANYTHING on because I was stuck. She thought she was helping but it just reminded me of how messed up I was. she would offer suggestions but she never 'took control' except to 'take control of her life' by choosing to bail out when it got too unhappy.
Maybe we are a bad match. I'm not sure any more. I know that to a certain extent we, as men, should be able to be the leader, and in our strength as much as possible as 'alpha males' but my friend said to me that that's all well and good, and he and I are pretty tough guys most of the time, but he says that sometimes EVERYONE needs real support to pull out of their down period, especially people like us who 'think too much'.
I can't depend on her for that. She doesn't seem to want to grow up in that way, she 'waits for me to fix myself' and then if enough time goes by she bails.
I have to grow up now. I've been trying to find ways to take most of the blame, but as AmyC says, it's "50/50". It's been hard for me to see that because I think I should have been stronger. But I've been living in fear - that I'll do something wrong and she'll leave me. How is that healthy?
She is still the hurt little girl, and I can't hold on to her if I'm going to not drown also.
This is hard. I need a lot of support and like Becca says, I need to talk myself through this by talking about me.
Ignore your wife. Her reactions are syptoms of your malaise. You cannot expect her to 'save you'. That is not her job. Saving you is down to you. It is going to be hard whichever route you take but you are man enough for the job I am sure.
You dwell far too much on your W. That time would be much better spent on sorting yourself out. Thinking about your W and ways 'she could' help you is just wallowing. She can't do it. You have to help your self. That screams out from all these posts. You can't help her until you are fit and healthy again.
You have got to stop this pity party. Accept you are just another human being like the rest of us and then start looking for solutions.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Went out around 7:30 last night. Just decided I needed to get out so I told W I was going out, be back in a couple hours. Got a couple of questions 'are you going for a walk? Are you going for a drive?' and I just said I was going to Borders to look for a book. she said 'ok' and I left.
Got home around 10:30 and she was in bed already, not unusual because she's been having trouble with jet lag still.
I went and read the posts from Becca and everyone and also read some of the book I had gotten at FIB's suggestion - 'Mars and Venus - Starting over' which is a guide to healing after break ups and divorce. FIB's suggestion was that you have to break your dependence before it can even be possible to reconcile and have a healthy relationship.
What I got out of it was that we all really need to forgive and let go with love, before we can start a new relationship with anyone else. Interestingly he says in the book that when we do that it can re-open the door for reconciliation.
I realize that I haven't forgiven or released the hurt for several old relationships - with my W and with the people of the old companies who hurt me. So it's not just relationships with spouses that we have to forgive and heal, it's ANY relationship that ended that we need to deal with those feelings. I'm trying to learn that and I also need to see the 'door' for reconciliation 'locked' for now.
I had a weird dream last night. In the dream W and I were in the kitchen she came over to me and gave me a passionate kiss and I felt the passion and the love. It was so intense, I could FEEL it in my dream. I haven't felt that passion with her in real life for a long time. It probably means I wish we cold have that, but more importantly I FELT it. Maybe my feelings are coming unblocked, if only in a dream.
Sometimes they say that if your dream is intense enough the person you are connected to can feel it / dream it also. Who knows.
I forgot to mention that we had chinese fast food last night and I opened a fortune cookie that said 'your luck is about to change'. Could be prophetic, and since I have 'felt' like it's been crappy then it can only change for the better, right?
I noticed on the table another fortune lying there that said 'You will make a decision that is long overdue'. I would venture to guess that it was W's fortune and why she left it there is a mystery. Just as a refresher, remember that she got a fortune 2 years ago that said 'you will fall in love with someone far away' which she kept on her desk as she pursued OM.
Now to me, the 'overdue decision' would be to start pursuing the career she wants instead of being afraid she can't do it. It's what she's been talking about for a while and says she has been holding herself back. But to her, well, it would probably be a way for her to validate that she should 'leave frank' and 'find her path'. Leaving, running, looking somewhere else.
I cleaned up the table and threw away the 'fortunes'.
Around 5am I woke up because she got up and went downstairs. she came back a few minutes later and got back in bed. Then a few minutes later she left again and didn't come back. I didn't say anything or even act as if I was awake. A few days ago I would have said "are you ok, what's up?"
This mornings interactions were friendly, polite. She got back from her morning walk and was getting dressed after taking a shower (she doesn't have any problem standing nekkid around me) and was telling me she got up at 5 and did some meditating, then she went for her walk and hiked to the top of this hill that she likes to go to because it's been her place where she can 'soak up the sun' and get 'grounded, in touch with God, the universe'. 2 years ago that was where she had the 'I release you frank' ritual with me.
We had some idle chit chat about things that needed to be done around the house, her schedule for today and other stuff. Gave her a complement on how she was looking better now that she's exercising and she said 'so do you'.
She has a little redness on her upper lip from waxing and I notice, she comes close to me and sticks her lips in my face so I can see closer and I say 'poor you' and she give me a 'poor me' pouty face. I don't get that at all.
That was about as close as we got. No physical contact at all. Just 'best friends' hangin out. Sometimes I worry that by being that way I validate to her that everything will be 'all right' when she leaves.
I kept my attitude pleasant, and made sure I left the room before it became awkward or needy.
That's it, she's gone to work now, 4 massages today which is a windfall for her. Oh, as an aside, her 'how to get a divorce' book was still on the floor in her office opened to the same page as yesterday so I guess she hasn't gone back to read it.
I'm going to focus on things I need to do today to get myself and us financially strong again. It hurts because I see so much of the 'last time' repeating itself except that she's not 'lost' like before. I realize that last time my counselor was there to help us both by giving me the strength to save HER.
Originally Posted By: saffie
Ignore your wife. Her reactions are syptoms of your malaise. You cannot expect her to 'save you'. That is not her job. Saving you is down to you. It is going to be hard whichever route you take but you are man enough for the job I am sure.
You dwell far too much on your W. That time would be much better spent on sorting yourself out. Thinking about your W and ways 'she could' help you is just wallowing. She can't do it. You have to help your self. That screams out from all these posts. You can't help her until you are fit and healthy again.
I have accepted that she can't / is unable to 'help' me. But I don't know why you think I can 'help' her? She wants out, thinks shes done all she can do, and is running away. There is nothing I can do to change that. This is who she is, just like the 'stuck / anxiety / masochistic' state I was is is who I am when I'm beat up enough.
I really got a lot talking to my friend last night. He's known me for 22 years and he went through the last time with me, understands her 'little girl' issues and knows how hard times have been for me lately. But when hes very first reaction is "what is it with her, whenever things get tough she wants to run away?" It really hits me.
No matter how much responsibility I take for my lack of strength and for my bad behaviors, I still keep listening to his observation and it bothers me. Maybe he's right, maybe she is the wrong person for me. Maybe she is high maintenance.
She knows everything about the 'good side' of Frank that all the people posting here know. She would be the first to tell someone exactly the same things about me that anyone here would say. Yet when the hard times / bad times hit me she absorbs it for so long, then decides to run away.
This has gone on too long. I'm going to claw my way back to the top again, like Becca said "You are amazing. Your intelligence is unrivaled and the warmth in your heart....you are one of a kind and a very rare breed, you just have to SEE YOUR OWN VALUE."
From everything you say, when Frank is on top of his game your wife is ok. I read that, as when you are on top of your game, you are helping her as she feels secure and contented and she does not feel the need to run.
When you struggle she struggles and wants to find someone/ someplace else to find comfort.
Srikes me that you have to heal yourself, which you know, and if she happens to be there at the finish of your journey then that's all well and good but if she isn't, then you know her true worth, and possibly you shouldn't be with her if she cannot stay the course. When you are at a low ebb the worry of her drags you even lower.She has to want you for wanting you - warts and all; not just for the good times.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
But Saffie, Prince Charming is handsome and young and rides a white steed! He doesn't have warts, or depression, or periods of unemployment. That's the beauty of Prince Charming. So if last year's Prince Charming gets a little old and develops indigestion, well, then it's back up into the tower to get rescued again. All she's got to do is get her long hair flowing! Oh wait, but didn't he say she gained 50 pounds? Will she still fit on Prince Charming's horse? No matter. She's perfect. It's Prince Charming who can't have flaws!
Srikes me that you have to heal yourself, which you know, and if she happens to be there at the finish of your journey then that's all well and good but if she isn't, then you know her true worth, and possibly you shouldn't be with her if she cannot stay the course. When you are at a low ebb the worry of her drags you even lower.She has to want you for wanting you - warts and all; not just for the good times.
Yes that's true, I DO worry about her because she's tried to leave me at least 2 times now, and this is the third. Always because she's unhappy because I'm unhappy.
So, I get unhappy, then I stay stuck, nobody is able to help me for whatever reason, I worry she'll leave and that makes it worse for me, and eventually we've ended up here.
I guess I'm very confused because I also read the 'self help' books she reads on spiritual 'growth' and they all put limits on how long you stay with someone who is spiritually stagnant. They all say that you need to find your own path in life in order to fulfill your lifes purpose.
That doesn't seem to fit with 'in sickness and in health' or 'commitment' to someone who is just not emotionally 'ok' like I have been.
I am having a hard time reconciling in my mind which is 'right' and which is 'wrong'. Is she 'wrong' to want to move forward with her life without me? As AmyC said, she has 'outgrown me'.
I know I'm at the turning point of my life and I need to grow beyond this pain I've been in because it is stopping ME from fulfilling my life purpose. I am just having a hard time 'blaming' her for not wanting me - warts and all.
This is hard. It's hard to not try to be nice, talk to her. It's hard to drop the rope.
Maybe she has outgrown me. I wish I hadn't had that dream because it makes me think that since many dreams are manifestations of subtle 'cues' we get during I day that maybe she is 'cueing' me that she wants me to be passionate with her.
But she was so detached this morning. And all the time.
I'm so angry, she goes and had affairs and I help her through her crisis, I lose myself and become a down and crashed man for many months and she waits till she's had enough and bails. Why is she like this?
Allow me to just take that dumbass statement right back so you don't strain your brain over it, Frank_D.
I mis-spoke. FOR REAL. There is an AREA in which she has "grown" - and I use the term loosely. It is that she stood there talking to you in the kitchen yesterday and told you how she felt. She expressed herself. Anger, sadness, hopelessness, in THAT area - self-expression to YOU about HER feelings - she has matured A LITTLE. To say she has outgrown you was way over the mark so forget I said it. I stand by everything else I said.
