Real growing and healing

[AmyC]

I calmly told her that she could still do these things, that she can see that I am working on reclaiming me, and being together was better for all of us. Yes, bad DBing.

She says 'no, it's been 7 years we've been trying to 'find ourselves'. I know that you didn't fix yourself when we got back together, you fixed the relationship. She brings up how she is 'taking care of her body now' because she has accepted her 'spiritual connection with herself and God'. I said that she went back to 'being comfortable' and not exercising after I did all the work to restore the family and the relationship and she said that was because she knew I hadn't done the work on myself, and she was still unhappy but hopeful. Since I spiralled downhill after that, she says she sees it's not going to happen while we're together. "I know when I'm done and this is it."

She said she didn't really know what to do - she was reading the divorce book to figure out what should be her next steps and that she doesn't have any money so she's stuck right now.

I asked her if she had 'someone else' and she started to cry and said 'no, I don't have anybody'. I told her she would always have me and she started to blast me saying she hasn't had me for a long time. I told her that I haven't had me for a long time and I'm reclaiming me.....So she got angry and a little tearful and said "What about the times you 'swore' to ME you'd get help, that didn't count?". So I said that I was sorry, I let myself stay stuck and didn't reach out.

She said she hopes it works out, but she is done. I told her it will, and I said she'll always have me if she needs someone because I'm not going to stop loving her. I'm calm during this conversation. She says "I can't have you until you have yourself".

She told me that she didn't mean she has 'nobody', she has her connection to God and her integrity so she isn't alone.

She says she has been trying for the past 7 years to get to the place where she can love, and be loved deeply. That she has been waiting for that to happen for me also, and she says "how long do you wait before you admit it isn't going to happen?". That she meets men and women in her life that are caring, vulnerable, loving and authentic and that she realizes that she wants that instead of being in this depressing relationship. She's not looking for a relationship, she's looking for something more than being in this environment with me, where we're always unhappy. And she's done waiting. She needs to make a 'drastic change' in her environment. She knows that she can have those kinds of connections with people, just not with me.

Says she'll always love me, and hopes I build a better life. She knows I'll take care of my girls, but doesn't need me to take care of her. She's going to figure out a way to support herself and is reading and learning what she has to do to get a divorce. She's not in a rush, doesn't see a need to tell the kids anything until we feel like "it's time", and we'll still sleep in the same bed with me unless I'm 'uncomfortable' with that.

I mentioned that she had rolled over onto me last night and she didn't remember that, but then went on to tell me she had a dream about us.

In her dream it's just she and I. We're moving into a house that a 'friend' of mine says it's ok for us to live in because we lost this house. She says it doesn't 'feel right' and as we're moving in the 'friend' and his wife come back to the house and the wife starts moving their stuff in, glaring at her as she does it. The wife pushes all the stuff she has put onto the table off and the friend tells us he's sorry but she changed her mind and wanted to move back in.

He offers us the chance to live in the shed they have but my W says no way, because she doesn't want to be near this woman's anger.

She says she woke up from this dream and was yelling at me, saying something like "Why can't you find a place for us to live!?" I was asleep and I don't recall this but she says she did. Maybe she was quiet, I didn't push it. Then she got up and went to read her divorce book.

She is very calm. She says she's "sad that we couldn't heal ourselves together, but half her life is gone (she's 39) and she doesn't want to live the next half in sadness". That she is sure of her decision. I told her several times that I understand how she feels, that I'm going to rebuild myself and recover our financial stability, and that she doesn't have to act on getting a divorce right now unless she feels she has to 'go right away' it would be better if we were in a better finacial place in a few months. She seems ok with that since she really doesn't think she can afford to make a move right now.

There is plenty of hope in the words I made bold above.

The dream is also very telling.
I hope you see that, Frank.

It's best to DB when you're under the same roof.
Start with DBing yourself.
You're not going to be believe in anything until you can believe in Frank again.

Get busy and find a new counselor.
Maybe listen more than you speak.

You can do this.

Be the change you both need.

And don't say a word to her about saving the marriage.
Save Frank and see what happens.
You're gonna have to let your actions speak a hell of a lot louder than your words.

We will help you just like you have always helped us.

Because we believe in you.

And sometimes that's enough when we find it hard to believe in ourselves.

[Jeff223]

That's what scares me, not knowing what to believe.

Frank - right now you cannot trust anything you are thinking. And don't "trust" anything we say here either, b/c you are only reading words and you cannot process now.

Right now there is no "believe".

You are like the guy who has been on a drunk for a week and is looking for the car keys with a blood level of .25 - you cannot think straight.

So do not try to solve this problem now.

Put it aside. Get your mind off it. "Sober up" first (even though you are not using booze you are "drunk" in depression and masochistic thoughts).

Do something positive this weekend. We don't care what it is. Set it as a gosl. Do it. And celebrate the accomplishment.

Pity party - been there, done that, many times. Do it. Don't beat yourself up for being less than "perfect".

Help me to give up on my marriage. It's over and I destroyed it.

You came to the wrong place to hear that from us my friend.

As you told me more than once - time to man-up.

Strength and Honor.

[frank_D]

There is plenty of hope in the words I made bold above.

The dream is also very telling.
I hope you see that, Frank.

It's best to DB when you're under the same roof.
Start with DBing yourself.
You're not going to be believe in anything until you can believe in Frank again.

I guess I see what you mean but I don't see what the 'dream' means. I know I have to 'believe in frank' and I can work towards that goal. I'm just seeing her continue down the path of 'done, time to move on'.

She just called a little while ago asking me to pick up D12 from school at 5 pm because she 'got a wild hair' and decided she was going to go to the beach before she came home for dinner. This is the same stuff she did before, she goes and 'meditates' to validate her decisions and ask for strength / support / whatever.

She has always been about the 'rituals' or 'processes' of 'letting go'. It's all happening again. Same behaviors except there isn't the OM pulling at her so she probably feels more confident in her decision making.

I have to believe in me regardless.

You can do this.
Be the change you both need.

And don't say a word to her about saving the marriage.
Save Frank and see what happens.
You're gonna have to let your actions speak a hell of a lot louder than your words.

Yeah. I know that eventually I'll be all right. And I won't talk about relationship again. It seems like I need to detach and distance and just work on fixing what I can, and if she goes then that's the way it is. It hurts, it sucks and if I had asked for help sooner I wouldn't be here.

We will help you just like you have always helped us.

Because we believe in you.

And sometimes that's enough when we find it hard to believe in ourselves.

Thanks, I appreciate all the support.

[AmyC]

It hurts, it sucks and if I had asked for help sooner I wouldn't be here.

Well damn, Frank.
Welcome to the club.

This isn't all your fault, Frank because it doesn't change the fact that your wife has done precious little to help you get the lead out. "In sickness and in health". It goes BOTH ways. She's not so perfect. Not by a long shot. In fact, she's quite self-centered, Frank. You really don't want to hear the rest of what I think. In some ways, she has impressed me. She's gotten herself a little set of balls. That doesn't mean she's big enough to play on the same level as those that will do the REAL work, though. No. Not at all. She's a very selfish and immature woman in my opinion but that's really of no regard here.

Save yourself.

Truly this time.

Then have another look at her and see if you still think she's all that AND a bag of chips.

[frank_D]

This isn't all your fault, Frank because it doesn't change the fact that your wife has done precious little to help you get the lead out. "In sickness and in health". It goes BOTH ways. She's not so perfect. Not by a long shot. In fact, she's quite self-centered, Frank.

But she is also a very giving and caring person, everyone likes her and she's not mean spirited.

You really don't want to hear the rest of what I think. In some ways, she has impressed me. She's gotten herself a little set of balls. That doesn't mean she's big enough to play on the same level as those that will do the REAL work, though. No. Not at all. She's a very selfish and immature woman in my opinion but that's really of no regard here.

I guess I don't see the 'selfishness', I see the 'hopelessness'.

Save yourself.

Truly this time.

Then have another look at her and see if you still think she's all that AND a bag of chips.

I know what you are saying, I just don't see her in that bad light. She is who she is, and is a bit weak, but tired of being hurt all the time. I guess.

What about the 'dream'? The 'beach ritual'?

[AmyC]

But she is also a very giving and caring person, everyone likes her and she's not mean spirited.

So? She's also not really into holding up her end of the deal if it might put her out or god forbid, interfere with her fairy tale view of life.

I guess I don't see the 'selfishness', I see the 'hopelessness'.

That's because right now you are comfortable atop the pity pot.
When you gain the ability to see things as they are, which you will, you will no longer need the rose-colored glasses because you're not going to be so damn willing to carry the weight of this burden. 50-50, man. This crap doesn't slice any other way.

I just don't see her in that bad light. She is who she is, and is a bit weak, but tired of being hurt all the time. I guess.

Right. And you're not?

What about the 'dream'? The 'beach ritual'?

I can speak only about what I think about the dream because to me the beach "ritual" only furthers my opinion that she is self-centered. Point in fact, what has she been doing all this time your family has been struggling financially? Did she go out and get herself a job or did she just roll off and give a massage occasionally? The answer to that will be enlightening.

Now the dream, which doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out. She is insecure. About everything and specifically finances and your ability to continue to "provide" the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed. We could look deeper but why? Deal with the part that has to do with you. Or does it, Frank? Perhaps it was her conscience telling her to get a flippin J-O-B!

[frank_D]

I can speak only about what I think about the dream because to me the beach "ritual" only furthers my opinion that she is self-centered. Point in fact, what has she been doing all this time your family has been struggling financially? Did she go out and get herself a job or did she just roll off and give a massage occasionally? The answer to that will be enlightening.

She has a space at a 'wellness clinic' and she gets all her business by referrals or whatever they bring in. She has talked and talked about advertising, making brochures, but never has made it 'happen'. Instead she relies on the 'clinic' advertising but she's only been there a couple months.

She has talked about getting a job at a spa, but the pay isn't very good and I told her she'd do better to promote her business.

She has 4 massages tomorrow, and is happy she's getting the business now. But it's not because of her promotion, it's just random.

[Becca1975]

Ok Frank, I've spent the better part of an hour reading and I admit, I've had to skim some because I had some catching up to do.

My time is limited at the moment, it is 8:30 and my kids are begging for food. I'll add to this after I've had some time to digest some of it...but a couple of things i wanted to point out.

You and I both DB'd. We both DB'd successfully. How's that? Your marriage was saved. Mine was not. But...I was saved.

You spent so much time trying to save the marriage and holding her above water, that you let go of yourself. You know the metaphor, you and I have discussed it before. You cannot save a drowning person if you, yourself are drowning. You HAVE to save yourself first and then go back for her.

Frank, you are worn out and exhausted. In my (non medical) opinion, you don't need anti-anxiety meds, you need PEACE in your life.

Remember, right before your W agreed to stay and work on the marriage...we were discussing things you could do? Changing your bedroom up to things FRANK likes! Changing the bedding to something more masculine.....not for W, for FRANK.

You have GOT to pull yourself out of this. You have to let her go for right now, because you'll drown both of you if you don't. Let her go. Let go of her expectation of finances. Let go of her expectations of happiness. She's right in one thing, you have to grow and find happiness, regardless of what the other person is doing. What she is doing right now is essentially what you need to do also.....go on and be happy by yourself. Not without her.....but realizing that you aren't in control of how she feels. You aren't in control of her destiny. You are in control of FRANK. She can choose to be happy, to be in love with you, etc. Or she can choose not to. You aren't in the place to be making that decision right now though. It is all about Frank. If you feel alone, find people. Find people who can nurture you. Believe it or not, I know your feeling of alone-ness. I've been alone all my life too. When I 'saved' myself by DBing, everything finally fell into place, I healed my old emotional wounds (most of them) and I learned about how relationships worked. I worked hard on figuring out who I was and accepting that person. And suddenly......I was surrounded by more love and friends than I could have ever imagined. See....I was always alone by choice, because I never let people in. Plus, I found the wrong people to hang out with when I did try. I stopped trying to impress people into being my friends and just accepted the ones that did come along, didn't care so much about what they thought of me, and low and behold, those friendships deepened and I've become the one that most of them come to for advice.

No...I don't know it all. I learn every day. Just today, reading your posts, I saved some links, some info...so I can go over it a few times, but already can see some benefit. More puzzle pieces clicking into place.

Your W cannot be held responsible for your happiness. In a perfect world, she'd be able to nurture, but for whatever reason, she can't.

Frank, you've made and lost more money than most of us will ever see in a lifetime...and you'll do it again, because you are a freaking genius. You are amazing. Your intelligence is unrivaled and the warmth in your heart....you are one of a kind and a very rare breed, you just have to SEE YOUR OWN VALUE.

[Becca1975]

Oh and one more thing....I can't force you to do this...but....I'd love to have a couple of weeks of posts with NO mention of W. W is out of this picture for the moment. I want to read posts about Frank. Things Frank loves, good memories Frank has. Who Frank really is. What Frank dreams about. Alllll about Frank.

[phoenyx]

Oh and one more thing....I can't force you to do this...but....I'd love to have a couple of weeks of posts with NO mention of W. W is out of this picture for the moment. I want to read posts about Frank. Things Frank loves, good memories Frank has. Who Frank really is. What Frank dreams about. Alllll about Frank.

And what Frank is doing for Frank.