Some Personal Thoughts

[bright 2 morro]

Hi All,
I am sitting here thinking about my situation. I have some thoughts and concerns. Some of my suspicions were confirmed this past weekend. My H lies about being with the other woman well he was seen at her house several times since Sunday. So it is confirmed that the affair is still going on. Even though he denies it to this day. Even after I told him he was seen there. He dumps the kids on me early just to go see her.

He is always mean to me but then tells others that he is not mean and does not hate me. Ok, well that is not what he says to me. He calls me some of the worst names in the book.

My therapist tells me that you always hurt the people you love most and that is what she thinks he is doing. She tells me that he does not hate me. Ok, well then, why does he treat me as if I am the enemy? I could not fathom treating someone I do not hate the way he treats me. Why am I the only one he treats this way and why does he tell everyone else nice things about me?

For all of those out there they have gotten back together with their spouses, How the hell do you do it? I am actually thinking right now that after the way he has treated me and the lies and the cheating how could I ever trust him again?

I know I have the choice to hang on or not. I would really love to have my Husband back. The one I fell in love with, the one I was married to until he became an alien, the one who put me first, the one who would never have cheated on me or lied to me, the one who would listen to how I felt about things.

I have not seen that person in so long that I am not even sure he ever existed. I know what I want to do if I am not with him but he will fight me on it to the bitter end. He does not want to pay me full child support and he wants me to stay here and promise to never move away. I am not sure I can do that.

I have been in contact with some old friends from my home town. People I grew up with and have not talked to in a while. It has made me realize that I would love to be near them all again. I miss my friends from my childhood. One of my friends just drove here last night just to spend the evening with me and the kids. That is what really made me realize that I want to be near to them. I would have a great support system.

But like I said he is keeping me stuck here because he wants to be near the kids. But only on his terms, whenever he is not with the OW and her D. To me it seems that more and more he is calling me to take his time. So to me it seems as like when something comes up with her he dumps the kids.

Ok, so back to my point. I am not sure if I could ever trust him again. How do people do it? I am not even sure if he can ever want to be trusted by me again.

Maybe I am questioning all of this because I am not sure if I want him to come back after everything he has done to me. He does not even realize what he is doing. He thinks that he is perfect and does nothing wrong. That everything he is doing is right.

B2M

[tmi]

hey, b2m ~ I know exactly what you mean. I really miss my guy too. Glimpses of him occasionally, but my H doesn't let him out too often these days. The mean, angry guy you're describing is familiar too - but if we aren't awful, how can they possibly justify their behaviour? Because on some level they feel badly about their choices - and especially when their guilt-inducing spouse is around, I think - they need to be angry at us, so they can feel they are right.

It's hard to take the selfishness and the apparent inability to see the impact of their choices on their children, especially. How to trust them again? I have no idea. I've ordered a book called (I think) Healing the Hurt in your Marriage, which I'm hoping has some suggestions for that.

I don't have any advice, since I'm having a pretty crappy morning myself. Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone and none of this means that you are not a good person.

[bright 2 morro]

Thank you Ingrid,
Don't take this the wrong way but I am glad someone is with me on it.

I can not get over some of these things. Like, Why do they lie about being with someone else. I was told that they feel aweful about what they are doing and they are embarrased. Ok, so if it is that bad and they feel that way then why do they do it. Why would you do something that makes them feel bad.

[Rollercoasterider]

bright 2 morro,

He is always mean to me but then tells others that he is not mean and does not hate me. Ok, well that is not what he says to me. He calls me some of the worst names in the book.

My therapist tells me that you always hurt the people you love most and that is what she thinks he is doing. She tells me that he does not hate me. Ok, well then, why does he treat me as if I am the enemy?

Though I do not know, I will hazard a guess. Our spouses are supposed to be the closest person to us. This is a vulnerable location for though it opens us to great great love and joy, it also exposes us to greater hurt. To insult a friend of less importance is less hurtful with less to lose. I care much less that the person at the desk next to me insults me, but the same words from Sweetheart can cut. At times, I think this meanness is deliberate. He loves you and yet wants to push you away.
Why?
There are many possiblities.
Martyr syndrome is a common reason--he is not good enough for you. But few will admit that is the reason, instead they project their self-hatred.
But why does he praise you to others? It could simply be a manipulation--he doesn't want to look like the bad guy. That would be deliebrate, and his motive may be to make you look like the bad guy by not bad mouthing, or he is simply trying to keep it clean. But the latter doesn't seem the case since he is nasty to you directly.

He hates himself and as his wife, you are a reflection of who he is--to him. He thus projects his anger and hatred onto you.

He doesn't treat others this way because he has you to treat this way. You fulfill the nasty need--sorry.

I am actually thinking right now that after the way he has treated me and the lies and the cheating how could I ever trust him again?

Well, to be truly trustworthy, he needs to trust himself. And yo cannot make that happen--he must do it himself.

But I believe that we can help. He has lost belief in him Self. He doesn't believe he is worthy. Do you? We can help them believe in thir Selves by believing in them.

But the real question is HOW? UGH! Is there a how? I don't know. I think it comes down to Faith. First, I believe ALL people are worthy. We deserve the Unconditionals: Agape, Forgiveness, Grace. In Faith we Let Go to God and is in Him that we place our Trust.

I told Sweetheart that I did not believe or disbelieve him. I pointed out that he was pretty lucky, because that's more than most would get. It meant that I recognized that when he came home late from work it might have been legitimate or he might have visiste dthe OW. Sometimes he worked late, sometimes he saw her. I knew both of those things were true; I didn't need to know which incident was which.

Trust must be rebuilt. It is also a choice. If you choose to rebuild together, you need to choose to rebuild trust. There is a leap of Faith in there. No one is 100% truthful. It takes time and you will be tested.

MLCers will test you. Test you with the Unconditionals--you said you loved me and will/have forgiven, prove it--I messed up. MAybe he is admitting because he is remorseful. But other times an act may be deliberate and is telling you to test your anger threshold.
He will test boundaries. You need to respect yourself first. He will test to determine how much he can get away with. Be firm. Show him that you will not disrespect yourself. This is a tightrope walk, because the Unconditionals always apply also.

I know what I want to do if I am not with him but he will fight me on it to the bitter end. He does not want to pay me full child support and he wants me to stay here and promise to never move away. I am not sure I can do that.
...he is keeping me stuck here because he wants to be near the kids. But only on his terms...

The phrasing of that last statement shows you are willing or allowing him or the situation to manipulate and control you.
You CAN do anything you choose.
Will you?
Perhaps you WILL choose to stay close for your children.
Perhaps you WILL choose to move for your happiness--which will also benefit your children.

Do what you feel is right and best--regarldess of his arguments. That doesn't mean to tune him out. He may have valid arguments. Consider his points, but you get to choose your actions.

He does not even realize what he is doing. He thinks that he is perfect and does nothing wrong. That everything he is doing is right.

I don't think so. He is trying to make it right by being nasty to you; he is trying to convince himself or you. If he convinces you, he must accept that and will convince himself as a byproduct.

they need to be angry at us, so they can feel they are right.

Why do they lie about being with someone else. I was told that they feel aweful about what they are doing and they are embarrased. Ok, so if it is that bad and they feel that way then why do they do it. Why would you do something that makes them feel bad.

Does what they are doing make them feel bad during the action, or as an after affect? Drugs havea high followed by a crash. Feeling bad causes them to NEED the high and they become caught in an addictive pattern.

So why do they lie?
Sometimes it is because they really think we cannot know--against mountains of evidence. Sweetheart even told me I would know the Ow relationship was physical because he would stop being physical with me and yet he denied it. He brought her to his parents--she was wearing an engagement rign--and yet he must have figured I'd never hear about that. He drove her daughter's truck to visit me--who would loan some guy their Mom's truck unless there was aserious relationship with the Mom? And yet he denied.
This is evidence of their lack of clarity. Sweetheart was truly unaware of ho obvious the situation was. They are so confused that they do not understand how they appear to others. Boy whould they be embarrassed if they did understand!

So why lie?
The truth would be an admission of guilt. An admission that it is over (so they think). They not only feel guilty, but ashamed--they lie to avoid.

But what do the Why's tell you?
Well, they can simply reassure a person that their spouse really is nuts. But once you figure that out, drop the Why's, because we really don't know. TO dwell on such thiings is to fall into analysis paralysis and spin attached with your spouse.

You cannot save him. Let Go so that you can focus on your Self.

HUGS,
RCR

[bright 2 morro]

RCR.
Thank you for stopping by my thread. You have said a lot here. I know most of this but sometimes I need to be reminded. I get so tired of being beat up on by him. I get so sad because I know that I did nothing to deserve any of this. I am a good person and do still love him (ok the old nice guy).

The phrasing of that last statement shows you are willing or allowing him or the situation to manipulate and control you.
You CAN do anything you choose.
Will you?
Perhaps you WILL choose to stay close for your children.
Perhaps you WILL choose to move for your happiness--which will also benefit your children.

Do what you feel is right and best--regarldess of his arguments. That doesn't mean to tune him out. He may have valid arguments. Consider his points, but you get to choose your actions.

I can see how you can see it this way. The reason I feel stuck is because of the legality of moving and him not allowing it. In order for me to move I need his consent. He will not give it to me because he feels he needs to be near the kids.

I am trying to figure out if a move is something that would be good for me and the kids. I know at this time I would feel so good moving back to my family and old friends. I would not feel so alone. But is is really good for the kids to be away from their Dad? That question ways on me heavily. Because on this board we talk about working on US and doing things for US, that is great and all but I also have 3 young kids I need to consider before any of my happiness. There are certain things I can do for myself and I am doing them. There is a lot I have done for myself over the last several months. But some of the things that will help my happiness may in fact hurt the kids. They are always something to consider. Unlike my H, I can not put myself first in all situations. I can not do everything that makes me happy because someone has to consider the kids happiness.

But I also know that my friends and family would be there for me and support me. When I do not have to deal with my H I do very well for myself. The problems I have are when I have to deal with him and he is mean and nasty and hurtful. I wish I could run away from him and never see him again. I do not like being called names and the names he calls me are not good. Several times I had to ask him to go look the words up in the dictionary.

I need to go but will finish my thoughts later.