I choice to stick it out. I have not dated, nor will I. If my H chooses to divorce me, I will let him go as he is free to do so. However, the saddest thing I have learned in all this mess, is how little value we as a society put on marriage. Just in my case, 5 adult lives and 3 children have been effected. Not to mentions all the rest of our families. Countless boards on the internet are filled with LBSs like me. When do we say stop?
I appreciate your taking the time to post this. Unfortunately, while I understand your thinking, I just can't agree with your post - not taken to the extreme that you have written it. You appear to believe that the people here are obligated to stand for their marriages forever, except in the case of a few specific exceptions. That's a very black-and-white interpretation of the world (and of Michelle's books). I believe the world has many more shades of gray than this.
There are many people still posting on this board who did stand for their marriages for a very, very long time - but one person can't save a relationship if their spouse is never going to come around. Michelle clearly states this.
For those people, who suffered and endured for so long, who supported and encouraged others here, who saved themselves even when they could not save their marriages - what would you have them do when the time eventually comes to move on? I consider many of those people to be very good friends, and I will always honor them for fighting the good fight regardless of the outcome.
I believe that "Getting A Life" and having a Positive Mental Attitude are the real goals of Divorce Busting - not meerly tools whose sole purpose is to save a marriage. And by that standard, some of the people here who have wound up divorced and "moved on" are shining examples of success in my eyes.
I will not stop standing by these friends, or caring about them, as they journey through their lives after their divorce. The road ahead of them is still rocky and hard, and not the one they desired. If they find new people to care for them - people who can value them as their former spouses could not - that is something to be celebrated, not shunned. And this board where we met and learned to care for each other is the perfect place to do that.
Respectfully, Rob
Thread #10 22 year M, MLC, Piecing since 1/07 Goal: Live with confidence & enthusiasm!
I agree with part of what MMF wrote but I must say that at least on this MLC board we need a good mix of LBS and their different perspectives.
Here's where I am coming from, take it for what it's worth.
I have been separated 13 months now, I have had a fairly vicious MLCer to deal with as well. I have sole custody of my kids and I managed to retain my house. My STBXW is about to give birth to OM baby and I have been in a R with someone for around 5 months. I feel like I've been there and done that.
Within a week of my beginning my R I posted a "goodbye" thread because I didn't think it would be appropriate to continue posting while I was still married and in an R. That being said I still lurked several times a day and emailed some, the point is that I care very much what happens to a lot of people on this board. Every once in awhile I will throw out my 2 cents if I am really compelled. I often wonder if this is the right thing to do, you see I can't show hope of a restored M in my sitch but I can show others that life indeed does go on and this will not kill you.
I think it's healthy to have both sides represented here provided it is done in a tasteful manner. I have been really disappointed in some of the infighting going on here as of late and extremely disappointed in a very few who seem to think it is good to post TMI about their personal lives. This is the only thing that turns me off about this board, sure some of us move on to a new R but good god the rest of us don't want to hear the intimate details of that R.
I hope this thread can clear the air and we all can get back to supporting one another.
PS. MMF you show a lot of courage by starting this thread, I hope one day your W will awaken and see you as the courageous man you are.
I'm a Stander, we all know that. But when there has been adultery, is there something offical Biblically that needs to happen to return the situation to the vow... because some that take back their spouse may change their mind later--perhaps in their own MLC.
True repentance of the adulterer. That's it.
When their spirit has been convicted and their heart is contrite, it is my belief that it is God's will that the injured spouse forgive and if they can truly accomplish that (with His help), the marriage is wholly restored - as if it never happened (yes, we all know the continued work that is necessary however, the sin is removed, as if it never occured). Should the previously injured party later go on to commit adultery, the damage he/she would then be doing to the marital union is on them (so to speak) and not lessened one bit simply because they could (and probably would) say "Well, YOU did it!".
I would want to renew my vows if my husband and I were to ever actually pull this thing off. That would just be my personal preference, though. There is nothing biblical to support it as a "requirement". For me it would just be one anointed and glorified final swipe of the eraser.
And as an added perk for this flesh of mine, it'd be one huge "HAAAA!!! TOLD YA!!" to the enemy that would quite simply ROCK.
I may be new here, but I have spent time on other boards dealing with infidelity. The two things I read in posts again and again are anger and deep pain.
All of us met someone years ago. Someone we fell in love with who feel in love with us. In each case, two people mutually agreed to spend their lives together, to have children, to take care of each other, and to be faithful. Then, somewhere along the way, one person changes their mind. One person walks away and usually to be with another lover. These boards are not filled with people who have mutually agreed to divorce. Those couples that sit down and decide to end their married the same way it started, by mutual consent, do not come here. The anger and pain comes from being left when you are still in love.
For some the pain is so great they can not bear it alone. I understand that. It is the same anger and pain we would feel if our spouse died. The difference here, unlike death, is the chance our love could come back to us haunts us daily.
For now, I have decided to stay, as I am not sure that my H has lost his love for me, mostly I think he has lost his way in life. Therefore, I will stay and do what I can to give him the time to find his way if he can. For now, my marriage is not dead.
But for others that may not be the case. For some it is a death and a some point we really do know the difference and accept what is and move on. When and how we know is for each of us alone to decide.
Again, I appreciate all of the responses to my post. I was not going to say anything further but I feel compelled to state again the purpose of this posting. It was not to throw stones at anyone for their choices and it was not to push my beliefs on others. I was sharing my beliefs. I apply them to me and no one else. I do try to encourage my children in my beliefs but they will make their own decisions. Reading my post again, I can see how it could be interpreted that I am suggesting other people think as I do or act differently. That was not the intent.
My request was asking that everyone respect the central theme of this site. People disagree with me on this but I know beyond a shadow of doubt, and this is not my opinion, that the board is here to support everyone going through these crises but the central (read, not only) theme is to help those fighting to save their marriages.
I absolutely understand that people should not be made to feel bad if their decision is to "move on", period. It is their decision and I have no quarrel with that. Whether I agree is inconsequential. It is their life and up to them what they need to do with their lives. I admire people that look beyond adultery or when a spouse walks away from a marriage and they come here to see if they can piece things back together. If anyone decides that as soon as their unfaithful spouse commits adultery or walks away from their marriage, they are not culpable for the marriage ending. Of course, they may have not been the perfect spouse and have responsibility for the failure of the marriage but if they are willing to fight for the marriage, bravo!
This will not be a popular statement but I cannot condemn the ones that left the marriage or committed adultery either. It is none of my business. Does it bother me? Absolutely! However, what people choose to do is their own business. I truly believe in what I said before in that you love the sinner and not the sin. I believe that I have to work through my personal feelings toward the OP that is with my W. I pray for the OP every day asking for healing. The OP is just as important as my W and my children in my faith.
Many of you, if not most of you, know me very well from my posts and e-mails. I attempt to never force my beliefs on others. I am pulling for everyone here to have restoration of their marriages and if that is not possible to realize how wonderful and awesome you are on your own, without the requirement of having a significant other providing a sense of worth.
I know I struck a nerve in several people, the reasons unknown to me but I would never intentionally hurt or offend anyone here. You have been an extension of my family.
I would like to share a fact. There are many organizations that have humble beginnings, with a single purpose. As time goes on, due to needs or desires, the purpose becomes hazy with all of the additional interests. Sometimes that is a good thing. In many cases, it loses its focus and the power that it had. I don't want anyone to feel that I believe that the site shouldn't help people post divorce or even to help someone become a better person in a new relationship because the old one was not salvageable. I am concerned the site has become more focused on moving on at this point. I am defining moving on as the marriage is over and not GAL.
In light I know that I am still in the battle for my marriage as are so many others, I was not asking anyone to go back to standing that are beyond that, I was asking that consideration for those that are still fighting continue to have that support. It is challenging to stay focused when we read about how happy people are that they moved past the MLC or WAS and should have done it long ago. Further comments that are not from only a couple people are that some people stand too long. This is a judgment that I don’t feel is fair to put on others. The last thing I was really asking for was considering how the comments about how much better the new relationship is compared to their spouse affects those fighting to continue standing. It has impacted me because I have often considered how good it would feel to have a relationship where someone appreciated me. I did not need this on the forum. I already face that from all of the people who care about me outside of our “club”.
I sincerely hope that this post makes sense and you understand that I only have expectations of myself and am not thrusting them on others. I am somewhat violating that only in the sense that I am asking again for your support to realize how the words you use can impact someone’s continuing stand for their marriage.
I know this topic is touchy and I want to thank everyone for how the responses and comments were not harsh or attacking. It demonstrates again the exceptional character that the people on this forum have.
Me:56, W:51 D:26,S:24,S:22 Married:18 Bomb 9/27/06 Separated 11/27/06 Divorced 10/6/08 Leaving it up to God
Everyone here is an example. Everyone's experiences are examples as well.
We pick and choose the advice we heed. We gather mentors and friends.
It is up to us individually to determine if an example is what to do, or what not to do based on the goals we have.
MMF, while agree with you, your stance is based upon the person you are today, the person you are tomorrow is allowed to re-evalute that stance.
Ultimately, I think you are saying... choose the correct place/thread for your advice?
Heh, I cannot even get my boys to put their socks in the drawer I want them to go in, I see no joy in suggesting that a stranger post where I think they should.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
What I see is that we post advice based on our situations and our feelings in those situations--me too--assuming anothers situations or responses would be similar.
I read a post only yesterday by an angry LBS and TO ME it seemed she was encouraging the LBS to whom she was posting to give up, she desrved better etc. She cited her situation as evidence that there was little or no hope.
That is what I felt MMF was addressing.
The site is called Divorce BUSTING. And not all divorces get busted. Some taht could do't because the LBS eventually does say No to a possible return. And that is fine.
We need to give support toward the best interest of the person whom we are supporting. And yeah, our agendas get in the way of that.
That is why I am wary about posting to those that have decided to absolutely not take their MLCer back, and in some ways even more wary if I cannot tell.
There are strict Standing sites. I'm a strict Stander, but I like it here better. Why? Well first, my Stand isn't dependent upon my religious beliefs--they support it, but are not required.
I didn't like how some beliefs say if you don't believe tsuch and such way (regarding Faith/relaigion) you are doomed. I don't believe in the devil either, people at some places talk about the devil as the enemy. I believe in the devil in a metaphorical sense...the demons within.
I also didn't fit in at those places because they were so inflexible, and they didn't like my differentness and alternative beliefs. The diversity at this site makes us stronger.
I didn't feel MMF was trying to say not to post if you've moved on or that moving on is a bad thing. I read that he has his beliefs and accepts the choices of others whether they match his or not. That is tolerance. The irony is that the outside world where we are told to kick'em to the curb, but also much diversity is often intolerant of what we are doing.
I've experienced very few people telling me to Stand down at this site. And when they did, they said it was not what they were doing...so the message was mixed--at least in the example I'm thinking about. But I've made my views very clear. So many others are Standing out of desperation and neediness--common in the beginning--that people get fed up with them. Possibly because they seem themselves--projection, and are afraid.
