Is the ice melting?

[Bruce1]

After five months of W not really talking to me, I am wondering if the ice is starting to melt. There have been several signs of MLC that I have listed in other posts and won't repeat here. I also own plenty of my own faults. But, this week a couple of interesting twists developed to shake up the old pattern of stone cold silence about us (we had previously exchanged brief emails about our dogs and a few other minor things; there were a couple of half hour phone conversations about some emotional stuff this summer, but for the most part she asked for space and I have given it to her in bunches--I moved out in June and have not begged, pleaded, etc.). Now, consider this:

1. Two weeks ago alarm goes off at house. She asks me to check it out, even though she had already done so with the cops. No theft--probably the maid set it off. Now, though, she calls and asks me to take a look too, but she insists on being there. While at the house we have a brief talk about my therapy, and her eyes seem bright and eager for contact. She seems particularly focused on a t-shirt I was wearing; it had the phrase "rewrite your script" on it. She asked if that was what I was doing. Without going into detail, I say it is.

2. On Monday of this week I took the hard step of asking to separate our finances. She's been spending like crazy, and while she has a wealthy family to fall back on if she wants I don't. With no word from her about our future (one way or the other), I felt I had to draw the line. She got a bit defensive at first, but then agreed to a fair plan. But, the kicker is that she then abruptly asked, "So, what is your long range plan?" More important, I feel, was her tone of voice. I detected, or so I think, a note of anxiety. I emphatically replied that my plan was to fight for her, fight for our marriage because I love her and believe in us. That goes against DB principle of detachment (which I'd been pretty good at all along), but it was what I feel. At some level, I feel that I should open my heart in a loving way and if she rejects it that's her choice. One of the issues in our marriage is that she felt I didn't love her enough, or show it enough, so maybe a statement like that is a good 180. Hard to know. Well, after I said that she asks, "So, what went wrong?" We talk for about 20 minutes, and then she says maybe we could have dinner next week and invites me to the house Wednesday for Halloween candy. She ends by saying she misses me. I tell her I miss her.

3. Halloween. I go to the house and we sit on the front steps talking about her recent haircut, her exercise, work, our friends, our dogs, etc. No emotional stuff. It was a fun, flirty conversation, like we were dating. Kids kept coming up for candy, so that kept things from going deeper. That was fine with me. Again, I read her eyes and felt a strong connection. We looked straight at each other several times intently without saying anything. Her eyes were full and open. She gave me something for dinner the next night and once again said she missed me. I said I missed her. She also was careful to add, "You know, tonight doesn't mean anything, right?" I said, "I know."

So, any thoughts on how to go from here? I am well aware that we see what we believe, or want to believe, in many cases, so I'm asking myself if I'm reading these things too optimistically. I read things too pessimistically this summer; there were things I saw at the house that left me convinced she would file for a D any day. She didn't, and hasn't. Has never even said she wants a D or was leaning that way, so I realize now it was more my fears talking.

I don't want to get in her face too much. She seems to be peeking out of the tunnel, and I know full well this roller coaster could take a sharp turn downward any day now. I asked about dinner next week when I was there Wednesday, and she coyly said, "maybe." I think I'll leave that one alone now.

For those who have restored their marriages, or are further along than I am, I'd love some suggestions and insights. Many thanks, and make it a good day.

[Nature Girl]

Hi Bruce,

You asked for help from those who have restored their marriages and I haven't yet, but am hoping to. So I can only give you my observations!

To me, it looks like what you are doing is working! so keep yourself in check and no push for anything to happen faster. I guess from what they say here, you may get some backpedalling after these good peeks. But it seems like you are making her feel safe and that is good!

[a new 2moro]

looks good B-1 just be still and let her intiate contact. how are you inside????? Is there forgiveness???? Is there still anger???? this can only work if you have laid yourself out.....stupid..it should be the other way around....but where are you? are you ready for the next ride???

[Bruce1]

Yes, there is forgiveness in my heart. I need forgiveness from her for my failures as a person, and I need some changes from her, too. I am ready to forgive for the past five months. I still believe we can be great for each other. I see us as two people on a journey to wholeness as individuals, who can hopefully take what we've learned about ourselves, love, and relationships and create a new, better marriage.

I feel I've had further to go than she has (men usually do!), but I've covered a lot of ground in the past five months. I feel the change inside, and now I've got to find ways to show it to her. As these boards have noted, I've got to attract her back by being an interesting, loving person, someone she is intrigued by, someone she would like to get to know better. That will take time, so I'm back to the number one concept when it comes to DB: patience.

I fully know there are are no guarantees, and she could quickly run back into the tunnel. The changes are for me and whomever will be in my life in the future, be it her or someone else. For now, I still want that to be her.

I think I'd better lay low for now, let her come to me on her own terms/timetable.

[a new 2moro]

I dont know your stitch...but 5 mos is awfully early on the MLC timetable....

[Bruce1]

New:

yes, I've wondered that myself, and at the same time keep thinking that "every situation is different" may also apply. Just don't know; only time will tell. Thanks for your posts.

[Upside]

Hi Bruce-
I am in about the same position you are. My H has been gone for 8 months now and when he left, he gave me an inventory of everything I had done wrong in our M. Now he seems like he is really starting to turn around...although he is the process of buying a condo. But he does say the condo could be an investment...whatever. My H tells me that he now realizes that he is the one with the issues. He says he misses me and my kids. He implied to me a couple of days ago that he wants us to date...although we have been getting together sporadically so i guess you could say we already have been dating. My H actually told me several times the other day that he thinks I am pretty and even initiated some kisses...he hasn't done anything like that in months. Most of it seems pretty positive except he still wants to be "alone" and doesn't want to have to answer to anyone.

So, what seems to have helped so far in my sitch is exactly what n2m & NG recommended...being still and patient. You need to let her initiate...no R talk if possible...maybe in some non-pushing and non-verbal way let her know you still want her but that you don't need her. I think it has helped in my situation to let my H know that I just want him to be happy...so, if he wants the D or if he wants to buy the condo, I will be okay with it. Do things to improve yourself and do things to help with your independent. Your W will notice. My H always liked how I was able to jump into a project and get things done. My H seems to be noticing again.

My H does cycle where he will move forward and then pull back...so, be prepared for this. It has happened to me many times before where just when I think that things are starting to go the right way, all of a sudden, my H is angry again and for no reason. That is where having zero expectations comes in...and that is very difficult for me. If your W does get angry again, don't pay any attention to it.

I don't know all the details of your sitch but it doesn't sound like there is an OM and in my case, I don't know of an OW. Don't know if that could help to turn things around quicker or not. According to the MLC "timetable" it is pretty early in both of our situations to have things be turning around but I still think it is possible because every situation is unique...and there is nothing wrong with having that hope...but that being said, we still have to be prepared for things to possibly turn and go the other direction.

Good luck to you Bruce. Keep us posted on how things are going.

<3
Upside

[Bruce1]

Upside:

Thanks for your post. I'm happy to hear things may be moving in a good direction for you, though as you note there always seem to be signals that point in a different direction.

There is no OW, and I don't have any evidence of OM. I have to own up to my failures about a lack of emotional connection and openness on my part, which I am working through thanks to therapy and a bunch of reading this summer. Whatever happens with W, I'm truly happy with the growth I've experienced. I'm a much better person for her or for whomever is next in my life, and that feels good. I can honestly say that the separation has been one of the best things that has ever happened to me, even though it's also incredibly painful. I'm doing new things, new people have come into my life, old relationships with friends and family have deepened.

I've been able to communicate just some of this too her, and I'd like to think I'm using the limited contact we've had to create some cognitive dissonance in her. I'd like to think she's kind of scratching her head saying, "Who is this guy?" in a good way. She hasn't filed for D, nor has she even hinted that's the way she thinks it's going. She has even briefly mentioned a couple of times that if we had met each other now for the first time she'd have no doubt we belonged together. I'm not reading too much into things, however, as we don't have long heart to heart talks right now.

But, a lot of history pulls her the other way. Thanks to some childhood issues I see now, I simply didn't know some essentials about what it means to be fully present in a loving relationship. I feel she has some growth/change to do too, but to get to the point where we can talk about what I need different from her I need to establish the trust with her that I'm worth looking at again.

In short, I need to be the best person I can be for myself, and if she likes what she sees, she'll come around. I then have to decide if I can get some changes from her. Patience, patience, patience!

Best wishes to you, and keep posting! Make it a good day for yourself and others.

[poohbear]

Bruce...

Slow and steady wins the race. After about 14 months of separation, My W and I started to date. We took it slowly. As a matter of fact, for the first few "dates", there was no physical contact. I would take chances and put my hand on the small of her back to guide her through crowds, brush up against her gently, etc. But for the most part, I would let her be the instigator of most actions. This included conversations. I would not initiate, but I would respond when the issue was brought up. It was tough to do, but I figured there was no other option.

You're right. She is saying "Who is this guy?". She's feeling you out, trying to see if the old Bruce is going to poke his head out . She's looking for any reason to justify her stance on the M. As long as you continue to show her the "new" Bruce, she will slowly come back to you. At least that is what worked for me. Just give it time. What do you have to lose at this point?

[Bruce1]

Poohbear:

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm happy for you and your W--14months is a long time to wait, but clearly for you it's worked out well. I am still willing to stand because I believe we can still be good for each other. She needs some things from me, and I'm working on those. I need some things from her. First, though, I feel I've got to show her to be able to get to the conversation where I tell her what I need from her. Getting from A to B takes several moves.

We seem to be back on the downward track. Someone saw her at a coffee shop and said she didn't look good. She was supposed to go away for two and a half days this weekend, but only went for a day. It was supposed to be time with her parents, but I suspect she's not wanting to see much of them for some reason. I suspect part of this MLC, if that's what it is, goes back to childhood, as the literature suggests. So parents may be hard to deal with now. But, I'm not walking too far down that road of speculation because I just don't know.

The other signs of downward travel are she said briefly in an email today that her trip was "weird and sad", and there's been no invitation to dinner this week. Given all I've read on these boards, the lack of invitation isn't surprising. It does hurt, but it's not surprising. She seems to still be cycling up and down, and frankly I don't want her back in this condition. She needs to get well, and I'm not sure I can help with that other than be there to do a few things around the house when I go there (rake leaves). Meanwhile, I'm on with GAL and happy about many new developments in my life. So, this saga goes on one day at a time like it does for all of us--up and down. Take care.