That leaves me with two scenarios. One: Your H realized he was being an idiot, and decided (voluntarily) he needed to back off. (Unlikely, but possible.) Two: He didn't realize it, and either is hiding deeper or she cut him off.
I actually think option one is the most likely. Maybe my comment to him about him seeming particularly vulnerable right now struck a chord?
Dom -
Quote:
I cant imagine why you would possibly divide your family like that. even the first time, let alone again, given all your past troubles. If your sister knew about the problems 5 years ago, she's the one who should be getting the 2x4, for even suggesting such a trip without your husband.
Actually, we take plenty of vacations together. H also takes vacations by himself (surf expeditions and mountain climbing guy things). I almost never take trips by myself - these were very special occasions. And my kids are almost grown, so why would it be a problem to go on this trip? And I already took the trip - which was fabulous - so no cancelling it!
My sister knows nothing about our problems, my family never knew about H's infidelity, and I think that's good - they would have had too much trouble forgiving him. Reconciliation was easier without that issue.
Interestingly, watched The Hoax the other night with H. A movie about Clifford Irving, an author who perpetrated a swindle in the 70's with a fictional autobiography of Howard Hughes. The main character had an affair, he and his wife reconciled, and a year later, at the time of the movie, the OW calls him up and invites him over. You see the character struggle with the temptation, he finally calls her, ends up in bed with her. W finds out and H is remorseful, but too late. Then later, H pays a woman to sleep with his drunk best friend to keep him from backing out of the scheme; friend is devastated the next morning when he wakes and realizes he cheated on his wife.
H commented on how manipulative this guy was, how bad that was. I think the scenes where the wife is really hurt finding out he strayed again hit H - and the OW turned out to be manipulative and scheming too.
E: I am really sorry this is happening. It just sucks. No 2x4s from me - only you know what you need to do. But I have to ask - is this really good enough for you? I honestly don't think so. Sweetie, I understand about the kids, totally, but look beyond that. Make sure you do what you need to do for yourself. Sounds like hubby just doesn't "get it".
It was through emails that I first found out about OW. I just stumbled on something that made me do a doubletake. Of course I got "deny, deny, deny" - they make you think that YOU are crazy. But this is how these things start. Just don't get sucked in.
Are you sure the baby is the ex BFs??? I don't know about you, but I' would get my head out of the sand and I would have him followed. I would want to know for sure but then I'd keep my cards to myself while I made my own plans. It might be time to sock some money in a safe place and be prepared for "just in case".
I have been thinking about you so much. Its nearly a year since you and Karen and I got together. I hope you continue to be safe.
Barb - yes, I'm sure the baby's not his. The tone of the emails pretty much excluded that.
Truthfully, I DON'T believe anything happened. I'm just mad that H would consider putting himself in a situation that might possibly lead to temptation.
And I don't like being the suspicious one. I was always very trusting of H and his friendships, this wouldn't have even registered on my radar before his affair. But now, knowing how vulnerable he is when he is depressed, we AGREED he wouldn't have any solo friendships with women. And to his credit, he DID tell me about that first contact.
Don't worry, I'm not about to put up with any real misbehavior. He's been in a blue funk for quite a while now, relieved only temporarily by that new job that didn't work out. I'm afraid my patience for dealing with his depression has grown very thin - hence my enthusiasm for making sure I'm financially independent soon. Still, in an ideal world, I'd like to help him out of his depression - because he really is a fabulous and loving H when he's not depressed.
So was Chuck and I mean that sincerely. But I lived through some horrors when his manic depression set in. Funks were frequent, mania was not. Still, the memories sting.
Some men just like to flirt. I think they suffer from low self esteem. To some it is just a game. But others cross the line. And it is both difficult to decide which it is, and how much you can tolerate.
I know a businessman in town from seeing him at various charity luncheons and business meetings. I really don't even know his name but he is attractive, outgoing and very much married. He often brings his wife along to the lunches. Truth is he always flirts with me. I do not encourage it. I am pleasant to both him and his wife. But I have noticed. Then yesterday, he was at a charity auction without his wife. He came up behind me as I was entering a written bid of $120 on an item and writing my name and #. He said "I'd pay $120 just to get your phone number". Hmmm... how does one respond to that. I certainly would never encourage a married man. I just laughed and walked away but it did catch me off guard. Reason I'm telling you this is just that some guys need to do this.
What you are writing about your H, though, bothers me. Mostly because he is disprespecting you. And you deserve better than that. I don't know that answer about how to deal with it. But I would be watching him.
That's just it, though - H really ISN'T flirtatious generally. He IS friendly and outgoing, and some women might mistake that initially for flirtation. But when other women flirt with him....well, I guess it depends on the state of his depression. When he's in a good place, he displays my photo and very quickly manages to bring the words "my wife" into the conversation. When he's in a dark place, I guess it's just so tempting to enjoy a little bit of being admired by another woman, too easy to rationalize it as just a "friendly" interaction.
OW was just an acquaintance at work who roped him in by saying she was learning to surf and needed help picking out a wetsuit. H thought he'd be the "good guy" and help her get a deal at the local shop where he knows the owner....then her brother "conveniently" broke their dinner plans for that night, and she was all on her own, and H "nicely" offered to take her out to dinner with him and the kids - to HER favorite place, KFC - YUCK. Well, we all know where that story went from there.
This is why it's so important for H to know his boundaries - precisely because he IS so naive. Even he will admit he didn't see the ways in which OW manipulated him and the sitch until long afterwards.
I'm happy he seems better now, and willing to give him a cautious pass on this one. But it really did make me aware that I am dangerously near the end of my rope.
E: And I hope it continues that way. That's what we all hoped for. But as you get older and the kids grow and move out - your tolerance level changes too. If he did it again, I doubt you'd give him another chance. But only you would know the answer to that and only if it did happen.
I'm glad it has passed but I can sure understand how this has bothered you.
Hi - sorry that this is happening. Why doesn't your h deal with his depression by therapy and ADs, now you both know it exists, and is potentially so destructive.
One thing I have realised if I ever have another close r with a man [either my h or someone else] is that I would encourage emotional self awareness. My h was a fabulous man, now lost in MLC land, but had the emotional self awareness of a newt. I now realise that I need someone who knows what they are feeling and why, who is prepared to admit they are depressed, and could use professional help . . . .
He is on meds, and he does see a good counselor (albeit sporadically).
In fact, who knows - maybe he saw his counselor while I was gone and she helped him see where he was leaning?
It's other things I need to get him to do. He should be using a light box, since there's definitely a seasonal component. He doesn't take any vitamins, and he should. He tests mildly gluten sensitive and I'd like him to give a gluten-free diet a real try. I'd like to check his B12 levels.
He doesn't like me "doctoring" him, and since when he's depressed, he blames ME for his mood, he's resistant to me making suggestions when he's in a funk. Maybe now while he's in a better place he would be more receptive.
I did ask him in an email to look at the reasons why I thought he should go off Propecia; he seems to have done that, and indeed, that might be the reason for his improvement in mood. (It can block production of one of the brain neurosteroids and may cause hormonal dysfunction in some men).
That's just it, though - H really ISN'T flirtatious generally. He IS friendly and outgoing, and some women might mistake that initially for flirtation. But when other women flirt with him....well, I guess it depends on the state of his depression. When he's in a good place, he displays my photo and very quickly manages to bring the words "my wife" into the conversation. When he's in a dark place, I guess it's just so tempting to enjoy a little bit of being admired by another woman, too easy to rationalize it as just a "friendly" interaction.
OW was just an acquaintance at work who roped him in by saying she was learning to surf and needed help picking out a wetsuit. H thought he'd be the "good guy" and help her get a deal at the local shop where he knows the owner....then her brother "conveniently" broke their dinner plans for that night, and she was all on her own, and H "nicely" offered to take her out to dinner with him and the kids - to HER favorite place, KFC - YUCK. Well, we all know where that story went from there.
This is why it's so important for H to know his boundaries - precisely because he IS so naive. Even he will admit he didn't see the ways in which OW manipulated him and the sitch until long afterwards.
I'm happy he seems better now, and willing to give him a cautious pass on this one. But it really did make me aware that I am dangerously near the end of my rope.
E
E, I'm sorry but I feel the need to say this. Your tone has completely changed from your first post to this one. It seems that you're making excuses for him and blaming the A on the OW. Not so. "He" made the choice to disrespect, lie and cheat on you. And a grown educated man is not "naive" when it comes to women...... As wonderful of a man as he may be when he isn't depressed, it is still "him" who is responsible for his actions when he is depressed. It seems that he was pursuing her and I think this woman backed off when he hit on her and that's why she's now gone.
I know where you're coming from as my X sounds like a carbon copy of your H, in that, he always wants to help, wants to look like the good guy, etc. My X had numerous affairs. I finally got sick of it and made him leave. I took a year or so to get my ducks in a row before he left as I also had a D who was a Sr in HS and didn't want to rock her world. I know you don't need to be told this.....but, keep watching, get your finances in order, etc.
And believe me, I blame H for his affair, no one else. I'm just pointing out the difference - my H is not a serial adulterer going out looking for OW. 99% of the time in our marriage he has been faithful and appropriate. He does have flaws, and they are two: 1) When he's depressed, he secretly thinks that he married too young or that he could have done better in the wife department. (Things he freely admits are NOT true when he's well! It's almost laughable, really - I know for a fact that most of his friends are envious of H having me as his wife).
2) He doesn't do a good enough job of keeping his boundaries - unfortunately, with his history, he NEEDS to be very careful about what would otherwise be normal interactions with women. It doesn't come naturally to him, with his extroverted personality. However, I must say that most of the time he has done a good job of this. He's always been very careful to display a large picture of me at work and bring up "my wife" whenever he thinks there's a danger. He gets in trouble in what he thinks are "safe" situations where he can let down his guard.
That's why this woman bothered me - he's thinking "safe pregnant surfer buddy", I'm thinking "abandoned woman who might think successful hubby is a good mark". I don't like being this suspicious, and odds are his version is truer than mine - but even innocent situations can feed into his "I'm dissatisfied with my life" mood when he's depressed.
Believe me, I'm not about to give H a pass on adultery just because he's depressed. What surprised me about all this was how ready I was to say I was done if he did anything. Seriously, I decorated a whole apartment in my head while I was gone! I've never done that, not even when H was having his affair.
