Admittedly, not a lot of action or comment there. With the events of yesterday, that is going to change...
After I got home from work yesterday I found an e-mail from W. Admittedly, it's not easy for the two of us to talk in private with the kids there - which she recognized at the start. Due to our financial situation, she acknowledged that we can't have a physical separation without selling the house or putting our kids back into the public school system (our house is zoned with a middle school and a high school that have been underperforming for a number of years and doesn't appear to be on the road to improvement anytime in the near future) - which has contributed to W's feeling of being "stuck" in a M which she wants to dissolve.
W's idea at this point is to announce a formal separation but to continue to share the same house. Directly from the e-mail:
Quote:
Functionally, I don't think this particular arrangement would be so very disruptive for the kids, compared to someone's moving out, because we probably would be able to operate in the same way as we have been doing. I feel ready to lay it on the kids that we no longer have a marriage where we enjoy each other and do lots of things together but that we do - and always will - have a role together as their parents. They might worry about such things as, Is Dad going to go on dates? Is Mom going to move out? I could even explain to them that you and I might enjoy being together more, now that there's no false expectation (by each other or our friends/family) that we are a happily married couple. I figure one of us would move into the guest room. Which room do you want?
I will make the argument that this is how we have been living for nearly six years now at W's insistence - but I digress...
W also shared with her therapist that she feels "sheepish" that she does not contribute to performing grocery shopping or cooking. (I will add that I do a lot of the routine cleaning as well.) She worries that I will continue to feel "taken advantage of" if we proceed with this in-house separation. Strange that this appears to be the only area where W admits that she is concerned about my feelings...
My first thought is that it is really not that much of a difference whether I cook for three (the kids and I) or four - economy of scale and all that. I get the sense that there is a heck of a lot going on "under the radar" - self esteem issues, guilt for not physically contributing to the maintenance of the house (cooking, cleaning) for starters - that W is afraid to disclose directly to me.
We do have a spare bedroom (with its own bath that we have traditionally used for guests) that W can move into without any problem and move her stuff out of the bedroom that we have been using ever since we moved into the house. Since she is the one who wants to move forward with this, she should be the one to "relocate." If I had my druthers (again, I am mulling over all options here), she should physically move out of the house to get a real sense of what a true separation is all about. I don't believe she has ever lived by herself before. In her prior failed marriages, she always had her parents to lean on - something that is no longer available to her due to distance (her F lives several hours away) or death (her M died over three years ago).
I responded back to W by e-mail that I wanted some time to thoroughly think this through and to have an opportunity to talk to my IC next week about this. In addition, I would like some feedback/dialogue from you out there....
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
During my D sitch, H stayed in the house because he was going to be deployed for a year and wanted to stay w/ the boys for the time he had left.
Your W needs to realize that staying in the same house IS NOT (in my opinion) going to make things easier for anyone. In the long run, it will probably become uncomfortable, etc. for you & W. There will be tension and probably more arguments than before.
Also, this then brings the children into it, as she wants to tell them what is going on, yet stay living together. The kids will be absolutely confused about this.
Maybe you could somehow respond w/ something along the lines of: I want to work our M out. If we are going to actually get to the point of telling the children, then you need to actually move out. If you want a separation, then that's what it needs to be.
In most cases, I feel, an actual separation may lend a lot of light to the sitch for her to realize what she is going to lose. If she stays in the house and everything stays the same (as you said, you guys have been living like this for the past 6 yrs anyway), she has no reason to change anything.
Last edited by RedHeadWife; 10/24/0712:19 PM.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
My sense is that the kids will be devastated by this - not that they are completely in the dark already. D and S have both been questioning W off and on about "Why do you leave Dad out of much of what we do?" Both of them are very bright, very intuitive - and very sensitive.
I am so thankful that there is not a "third party" waiting in the wings on my side to complicate things. My IC and I discussed this at length - and IC thought it was very aware and positive on my part that I do not want to expose the kids to a cycle of GFs. W's best friend has done exactly this since her divorce a few years back with a new BF every few months - and I know it has affected the friend's D in a negative way.
Now does W have "someone waiting in the wings?" I don't know and I am not going to ask. Given W's history and her parents' history, it would not surprise me in the least - but I strongly suspect that she does not.
BTW RHW - I have been following your thread over on SSM. I get the sense that your communication with H has been going well since his redeployment. Hope he (and everyone else over in the Mideast) does their best to keep out of harm's way and get back here safely when the time is right.
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
I wouldn't ask if she's got someone else either. Yeah, W does need to know that finally *exposing* this to your children is going to be really bad and, once it's done, it can't be taken back.
Maybe you can either draft an email & work on it for awhile or, if you think you guys could do this, sit down and tell her that you would like to try counseling together and maybe try to work things out in your M. If you have been going like this for the past 6 yrs (and I totally understand that -- time flies and when I look back on my M, I realize that we weren't living much of an M for a long time either), maybe you could discuss trying to actually put an effort into the M and making it better instead of just throwing in the towel.
Last edited by RedHeadWife; 10/24/0702:28 PM.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
I took your advice and drafted a response to W. My next IC appointment is Monday - so I will wait for his comment (and everyone else's on the BB). Here is my first cut:
W,
I had a chance to think over what you wrote to me last week as well as discussing what you wrote with my therapist. Quite honestly, I don't see much of a difference between what you are proposing (an in-house separation) and the terms under which we have had to live our lives for the past six years. There have been (and still are) a myriad of choices that you can make - no one is going to (or will) force you to do anything that you do not willingly choose to do. From my frame of reference, I willingly choose to be where I am given the circumstances - and that sense of empowerment is very liberating and healthy on many levels.
I don't want to "keep things as good as we can for the kids" as you put it - I want far better for them. They have been hurting for a very long time. I feel a great deal of sadness whenever S or D ask me questions like: "Why does Mom treat you the way she does?" "Why does she leave you out of going to the movies or going to the play?" And I am growing very tired of having to evade their questions with contrived excuses for your decisions. They are very bright - and very sensitive - children. They understand what is going on, W - and have for a very long time. And frankly, they deserve a lot better from both of us than what you are proposing.
Something that I took away from your note is the lack of finding positive solutions for problems. You wrote to me that you felt sheepish that I do the grocery shopping and cooking. I am actually glad that you admitted that to me - I do far more inside and outside the house than a lot of spouses do and have ever since we started living together. Some of the time I don't feel like doing needs to be done but I get that sense of empowerment and satisfaction when it does get accomplished. Also, it does not make a heck of a lot of sense to keep separate stores of groceries, cook separate meals, etc. if we are living in the same house.
I want to suggest something that addresses this "sheepishness" concerning the grocery shopping and cooking. I would like for you to come up with some suggestions as how you can make a positive contribution to the nuts and bolts of grocery shopping and cooking. Once you have come up with some ideas, we can talk about it and come to a mutually agreeable solution. I recall the sense of accomplishment you exuded when we completed the long overdue inventory and purging of our pantry and spice cabinet - and I bet that you felt good when it was finished. This is something that you can discuss at length with your therapist - the value of finding and implementing positive solutions. My therapist strongly believes in this approach - I hope yours does as well.
In essence, what I am saying to you is that I don't buy into your suggested resolutions to our difficulties. I do understand where those resolutions are coming from and how your experiences (parents' failed marriage and your two prior failed marriages) have played into all of this. But my overriding concern is for S and D. They deserve nothing less than a mother and father who are in a stable, strong, growing and happy marriage - and that has been my goal from the very beginning. And I will not sugarcoat this for you - that particular road will take a lot of effort, energy and time from both of us. It will also not be a linear process - there will be stumbles and setbacks on this path. However, the goal will be well worth the effort on so many levels - and our children will be so much better off because of it.
As I said to you on Labor Day - if you are that determined to continue down the road that you have had us on for the past few years, I am powerless to do anything to stop you. I have served my time for my "transgression" (meaning the pornography nearly six years ago) by several orders of magnitude and I will no longer be held in judgment by you for it. Therefore, the ownership of a continued separation or divorce rests solely with you.
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
LOVE IT, but you may want to actually spell out "if you want a separation, you have to move out" and "I want to hold onto our M and work out our problems and that would be my choice over you moving out, but that will ultimately be your decision." I realize you said these things in so many words, however, you may want to make those 2 points VERY, VERY clear.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
RHW - I added those two sentences into my final paragraph and will discuss this with IC on Monday. Unfortunately, IC can't see me until after Thanksgiving due to his existing schedule and going in for surgery in a week or two. I will ask him to put me on a 'standby list' if a slot opens up before then.
IC did warn me from the outset that his approach to my sitch would result in more conflict before anything could get better - that I need to get my 'inner bitch' back. Being a natural conflict avoider throughout my life, this would be a true 180 for me. It scares me - and emboldens me at the same time. I think IC's reaction will be a very positive one - and I am ready for whatever W throws my way.
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
A lot of times, that's how a lot of things are -- they have to get worse before they can get better.
I've been feeling a bit more spunky as to my whole sitch as well. It's wonderful when we are finally happy w/ ourselves and can kind of be like "you're lucky to have me and if you can't see that, so be it."
As to being a "conflict avoider," even once you decide to take a conflict head on, there are different approaches you can take to either have the outcome be what you want it to be or to just end up being a huge, big, old fight and/or ugly mess.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
I shared the response I drafted with my IC yesterday and he thinks I am spot on with it and he is very pleased with the tone and content. He suggested that I add a sentence asking W to share my response with her IC (she meets with him later in the week - so she will have a couple of days to think over my comments) and that I offer to meet with her IC if he so chooses - which I did.
I sent an e-mail to W's work to let her know my reply will be sent to our primary account so she can look at it by webmail if she chooses. And I am ready for any response that W may throw my way.
My IC can't meet with me until after Thanksgiving but he wants me to contact him sooner if the situation warrants - and I suspect I will need to take him up on that offer...
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
Both of them are very bright, very intuitive - and very sensitive.
Being a natural conflict avoider throughout my life, this would be a true 180 for me. It scares me - and emboldens me at the same time. I think IC's reaction will be a very positive one - and I am ready for whatever W throws my way. 