MC - nervous and need advice

[inmyplace]

Hi breton.

Sounds like Db session when as I would have expected.

H is mad at me.

His problem.

DB counselor suggested that perhaps goal of situation now is to not make things worse--negotiate things in a cooperative manner.

That is a tough one. Could be a Catch-22 because your H may not like the things you try to negotiate. But it is really all you have.

H is going to have to face his role in the situation at some point.

Not necessarily. I see people who never look in the mirror. They grow old and bitter and blame everyone else for their woes. But again, not your problem.

breton, as I look back at those from here who have saved their marriages, it always seems like letting go of the situation and just doing what you have to do seems to work the best. It works best if marriages are saved and it works best if they aren't. Just go about your business and everything will be ok, one way or the other.

IMP

[forward]

"His problem."

Oh yes. Hee hee. I urge all LBSers to rehearse that one, hee hee. "Gosh, I am so sorry--that really sounds like a problem!!"

My DB session was interesting and enlightening, but also I may have to schedule another one to help me along, because there is a lot to process.

-I ALLOWED H to take over the emotional space in the relationship. This has meant he has never HAD to consider my feelings. DB counselor suggested that H has wanted to get a reaction out of me and my unwillingness to open up (and maybe to stand up to him, too??) probably infuriated him.

-Being more open in my life has had good repercussions w/other situations, such as work.

-I'm going to tell H that he cannot paint here and cannot do laundry here any more. Time for him to grow up and stop relying on me, directly or indirectly.


I talked to ILs yesterday. Told them that H said he wanted D. Also told them that H is going to have to put D1 first, not OW. But I am being careful now--I also said H was probably happy w/OW's "youthful energy" and that he probably needed to get to know her family (who sound like a very problematic bunch of people).

A friend was here on Saturday and she has been annoyed that H doesn't want to go on vacation. I asked her if she would like to go to NY w/me sometime and she is into the idea. Her daughter is just about at the age where she would have a good time w/us.

So I may just have to make my NYC trip a periodic pilgrimage!!

[inmyplace]

Breton,

You had some good stuff in your coaching session. I especially like the talk of letting your H take over the emotional space. That is interesting. The boundaries are good too.

One thing with DB, as you said, it helps in other aspects of life. I have found the notions of doing something different to be useful at work too.

But here

Oh yes. Hee hee. I urge all LBSers to rehearse that one, hee hee. "Gosh, I am so sorry--that really sounds like a problem!!"

I would probably suggest "Oh, poor baby." Guys can be dolts. You sometimes have to really zing them. You ever want a reaction, I can tell you what men like and don't like and what sticks with them. For example, you can call us pri*ks and we don't care. But call us a di*k and it makes a difference. Little differences.

The NY idea is awesome. Do it.

IMP

[forward]

It looks as if I have a babysitter! Probably she is just a little bit younger than OW. This means I can play a little tennis and I can have an evening a week or so when D1.5 will be asleep anyway.

I am going to tell H that Thursday I am going out (not to say where, but it is to an art museum) and babysitter will be here when he gets here.

[newground]

Hi Breton--
I'm a new poster and have been struck by your story, since my H has run off with a "pyschological mess" also. He is 49, she is 31. He has always been someone who liked to "help" and solve problems, but I think he has become a chronic rescuer. Is your husband also someone who needs to "fix" people?
I have been doing the DB independent, hands-off thing, but recently I've started to ask for more help with stuff around the house. I think this may be working, a little. I think those of us with rescuer spouses might need to show some need, because you can bet the psycho messes are showing tons of it!

[forward]

NG, you may well be right about showing vulnerability.

H has always been drawn to women w/major problems. Said I was together and that was why he was drawn to me.

But I wonder if the "helping" is also a control thing.

I think H feels very inadequate at this point in his career. So my thought is: will he be able to recognize his career disappointments and try to DO soemthing about them?

Or does he need a worshipful groupie so badly that this is what he really wants?

[newground]

Hi Breton--
Wow, our sitches are really similar! My H lost his job as a school administrator last winter, and the OW was a teacher who was upset about it and started pursuing him. So he had the career thing and the worshipful groupie thing as well!
A double whammy-- a needy emotional woman to save and an avid admirer.
H was married before me, very young. She was needy and depressed. I am the exception, like you are.
I do worry that the DB stuff might be making him think "Oh well, she's fine, I'd better concentrate on this crazy OW..."

[angelica]

Gosh, this fits my profile too - career problems with h, me being 'together' OW very unstable and needy. I think that I made him feel inadequate - not deliberately, but just the way things were.

I agree about the cotrol thing as well. H likes being in control,as I have discovered.

Is your h very passive/agressive as well?


A

[forward]

H says that I am not open enough w/my feelings--while failing to recognize that expressing every feeling is not a sign of emotional maturity, particularly when it involves throwing the remote control, slamming doors, calling names, etc..

So no, not passive aggressive (he says I am passive aggressive). I would say just aggressive!

I think D1.5's arrival made H feel very, very inadequate. I am trying to build his confidence w/her. I was surprised to note he did not know how to change a diaper. As she is older he is paying more attention to her.

H does not make ebough to support the three of us and that is why I think he feels bad about his career. I think the responsibility just scared the crap out of him.

[forward]

Well, got into a R conversation w/H today. I know I am not supposed to but on some level I felt it wasn't too bad of a conversation, even though H is still deep in replay.

-H said I did not express my feelings enough. Said something happened to me after miscarriages and birth of D1.5. (Duh, maybe lack of support contributed to that??) I said that I knew he was off flirting w/OW and that D1.5 and I really needed him them.

I think at C I need to point out that he is not some emotional genius himself (although I would state kindly). H likes to think is emotionally gifted but actually I think he has problems w/anger.

-I told him I tried to tell him the kind of support I needed (having fun and having things to look forward to would have helped me tremendously) and he said that he didn't WANT to do the things I wanted to do that helped me and I said "I know." His unwillingness to do those things is what hurt me but his stubborn insistence was a weird power struggle. It is that kind of thing that has me thinking it is not worth it to have him back. If asking him to take a walk in the woods on my birthday is that big of a deal to him and has to be a power struggle, I'm not sure I need someone like that.

-Not surprisingly, H does not want to look at his role in the situation. Said so outright. MLC.....

-I told him that D1.5 needs to come first, not OW.

-I am going to tell him that he needs to take his paints home. Also am going to tell him he needs to stop doing laundry here and needs to pick up D1.5 at least once a week.

-Sounds like OW quit school to be w/H. And from what I know, she was almost done. (What slavish devotion! How flattering!) Is working 2 jobs. Claims she contributes to expenses (somehow I doubt this, but whatever).

-I told H I know that he likes to "rescue" people and that OW is mentally ill. I know I shouldn't have said that. H claims she has not been institutionalized and he had misunderstood that. Somehow I think that he was probably right the first time--if she wasn't actually institutionalized I suspect it was something similar.

-H said that he is happier w/his job now that he is not w/me (so everything is still my fault). I said I thought that is good as he was very unhappy w/his job.

He may be getting more unhappy with it again when he sees what standard CS is.

-It angers H that I do not pay him much attention when he is here. This is the "wanna be friends" part. I told H that I did not want to be "friends" because I need to move on with my life and I do not want to be emotionally attached to him. I also said (and maybe this was unwise) that I wanted to move on and have a R, too.

-I tried to frame financial discussion in terms of saying that I tried to show I cared by being supportive financially and helping H in a very difficult career. H exploded on that (sensitivity re. salary--oops). Exploded saying that it wasn't as if he didn't work hard, not his fault that profession paid badly, etc. blah blah blah. I said "I am not saying you did not work hard. I am really sorry that your profession does not pay well. I'm sorry that's just the way it is."

That took some wind out of his sails but I am sure he is still brewing and stewing.

That still, however, does not make his lack of income either my fault or my problem.

-Claims he is not off having a good time as I seem to assume and that he feels guilty about me (kind of slipped on that one) and D1.5.





Overall H is still angry but may actually have heard me a tiny bit this time.