I wanted to share with you all a conversation that I had with my H last night. He called me to talk. We've been separated over 2 years now. I have posted updates in the past so anyone who remembers me could see where my situation has gone. I know my H is well out of replay and had been/is depressed for many months. He has so much work to do on himself and he seems to want to do it, but he doesn't even know where to begin because there is so much debris for him to sift through. Our talk last night was several hours long and I broke it down to make it somewhat easier to follow. I'm quite tired today and taking a little down time from everything in order to process all we talked about.
For the first time, I really opened up to him and he to me. We talked about things that have been bottled up for a long time. He is at a point now where he truly wants to offer explanations to me in order to help me move on from all the pain he has caused me. Here is some of what we discussed:
About himself: -I did ask questions last night. He told me that he would NOT make excuses; that he would try to answer as best as he could, but for some, he still didn't understand yet so he couldn't explain. -He definitely feels 9/11 was a huge factor in changing how he felt, especially at work (he works in NYC). He sees so much destruction, death, problems everyday. He said being a cop was fun and satisfying up until that day, and then of course everything changed: policies, goals, etc. -He also said he remembered when he was happy: when we lived elsewhere before we moved back to NY. He said he knew in the back of his mind that it was going to be very hard to afford to live there (and it was) and he ended up working so much just so we could have what we did. He felt overworked. He did not blame me or say I should have been doing more, however. -He swore that "this" had never happened before (the cheating) and that "my whole life was not a lie" (something I had said; I wondered if this had happened before). -In regards to the affair, he said that it was not done with malice and intent to hurt me; that it was not about the ow (although he admitted saying that he probably wouldn't have moved out if it hadn't been for her being part of this); that no wall would have been able to stop him; he was retreating from reality and escaping. -He said, "I needed an escape. I think about how I handled it now and it probably would have been less damaging to you and us if I had just become a drunk instead of doing what I did." -He said that he did not understand his state of mind over the last 2 years. That he felt he "snapped". -He said, "I fought it for 2 years, but I have finally hit the bottom. I'm at the bottom of the tunnel, looking up. It's lonely down here. And, I see a tiny speck of light way ahead in the distance and I know it's out there. I'm trying to figure out how to get out of this hole. I'm not ready to cry out for help yet; I think I can scale my way out on my own. That might be part of my personality, though; trying to do it with no help. But I want you to know, I am at the bottom now, and it's lonely down here. When all is said and done, I am alone every night. I know I told you this is what I wanted two years ago; all I would say is, 'Leave me alone'. Well, now I'm alone. It's very lonely. I am not happy." -He told me that he was in no condition to be in a relationship with anyone; that he had so much work to do on himself. He's not capable of it. -He said he has a lot of work to do on himself; that it could take years, or it might not. He doesn't know. But he would never ask me to wait for him to get better. -He did say that after going through this, he did not think he would ever be the same. -He told me he has no stability in his life; that before, he had everything, and now he was left with nothing. He said he was just now starting to face this and see exactly what he had done to his life. -He said that he is often caught with his mind drifting 1000 miles away, asking himself, "How the hell did I get here? What have I done to my life? Why did I do this?" -He told me that I had no idea what he was going through; that he had so much guilt over what he had done, and he wakes up every day facing it and not knowing how to deal with it now. -He said, "I am depressed. I am sure I probably do need help." I told him that I hoped he would seek it. -I'm not sure why he said this, but he commented, "It's like we could say, 'Let's get back together' but...there is no baseline. There isn't." [It was not said positively] -At the end of the conversation, he said, "I just wanted to call you and talk to you to let you know where I'm at. But I'm not calling as though I'm crawling on my hands and knees begging you for anything. I know you need answers and you are more than entitled to them, and I want to provide them if possible. But some things, I am still trying to figure out." -I asked him if he ever thought of not being a cop anymore; moving; etc. He said he had. He said, "Believe me, I've thought about a LOT of things." But when I asked him if he liked being a cop, he said hesitantly, yes, but that the job screws you up.
About me: -Before we even got into the conversation, he kept asking me what I had done that night, and what did I do Friday night, etc. As if he were curious about my whereabouts and almost questioning if I were out, without coming right out and asking me my social status. -He again told me that I did not cause any of this; it wasn't about me at all, although he totally understood that I reaped the repercussions of his bad actions, and he was sorry for this. -He told me that I deserve to be happy; that I deserve a better life than this, and that he would never hold me back from finding something better. He said, "You are a much better person than I am, and you deserve better than me." -When we talked about moving on, he said it did make him sad that after all we went through that someone else would get to be with me and benefit from being with me. -I told him that I was tired of being alone, that I had already been alone for 2 years and I didn't like it anymore. He said he understood. I said, "But no matter what, no one will ever be you to me." And he said, "Believe me, no one will ever be you or ever come close to being you in my life." This is when I started crying. -He said he agreed with me that his working constantly and us being apart all of the time was detrimental to our marriage and didn't help things. However, he said this was going to happen to him, no matter who he had been married to, and I shouldn't blame myself. -I told him that hearing he still wasn't happy after all we'd been through did not make me feel better; that it felt like such a waste. I was not gloating, nor did I ever say anything bad about him to anyone. He said, "I am sure that you don't; I know that is not how you are." -I vented a lot of what I went through those 2 years: I told him how sick & depressed I had gotten; how bizarre his "drop ins" were, and how I could clock them every 6 weeks; how I submerged myself into trying to fix this by reading everything under the sun about it...and realizing I could do nothing to help in the end. I told him how hard this had been for me and he should know...because I had held it in for so long. -He seemed very surprised at how little I actually understood about those 2 years, and I had to keep reminding him that I could only go on what HE was saying to me. It was like he was so surprised at my misconceptions of the situation. -I told him about the personality changes I saw in him...how he would come by and I did not recognize him anymore. It was completely bizarre to me; that I knew something was deeply wrong with him. He had altered his taste in food, music, language. He said, "I think neither one of us back then knew how to fix any of what was wrong." -He said, "You know, we did get married very young. But, for getting married so young, we were married a long time, and I think we did pretty good." -I told him that I was now trying to build a life for myself and things were different for me. That I didn't want to leave my family again; I liked living close to them. And he works so much that I always felt alone and I wouldn't want to go back to living like this. He was quiet a moment, and then said, "I know."
About the ow: -I told him a lot of what happened in the last 2 years. I reminded him of things he had said to me while he was with her; he did not recall ever saying these things (i.e., the remark about how fun she was and how she would go on all the amusement park rides with him). He said, "I am listening to what you are saying, and I'm sitting here with my jaw dropped open because I truly do not remember saying those things, and I can't believe I said things like that to you. I was in a very different state of mind back then." -He "felt sorry" for the ow's child and she didn't have a father, and he wanted to help. -He told me that when he moved out he realized that he had never been alone before and he actually DIDN'T want to be alone so he used the ow as his escape. But that there would be "pockets of reality" and he would say to himself, "What the hell am I doing? I don't want to be with her. Why am I doing this?" and then he would come around the house and log in a "drop in" (my words). But that he would be faced with reality and feel the urge to run and hide again...so off he would go. This cycled many, many times. -He said no one was patting him on the back about him being with her; she was not paraded around in front of family & friends like they were a new couple. -He lied to one of his best friends about how we separated; he told him he moved out first, and then met the ow. This person actually did meet her once. -One of his best friends is not in his life anymore. I was shocked about this; this man and his wife were 2 of our closest friends for years. He said they were not friends now because of this situation. This guy did know he had been cheating on me. It was after finding this out that I felt his loneliness; he told me he had lost most of his friends. -He kept saying that it was never going to be anything with her. He said, "You can't build a mansion on sand. There was no foundation and it was just an escape for me." -When I talked about how I did not understand how he felt she was better for him, or why he was attracted to her and not me, he told me it wasn't about that at all; that even during this, he still loved me, but he had a lot of anger and was not dealing with stress in the right way, so he escaped via her. -I asked him if he had any children; he said no. (ow faked pregnancies more than once). -We discussed the affair somewhat; he was careful about what he would say. He said he did not know if it was that he'd met her and fallen in love; he didn't think it was that. But he said that this wasn't about her at all; that it was ALL about HIM and how he was feeling. He told me, "At that point, I just didn't care. It wasn't that I wanted to hurt you. I just didn't give a [censored] anymore, about anything."
He is not happy. He is now facing the repercussions of his actions and he does not like what he sees. His strong streak is peeking out, letting me know that he wants to try to handle this alone; he wants to fix his life and make things better; he doesn't want to "give up". He said he is doing a lot of thinking on how he can fix himself. My FIL is pissing me off, because H told me that he had talked to his dad at one point, but his answer to him was, "I can't really help you with this.", meaning what he has done to his life and our marriage (because FIL did the same thing many years ago). But, I mean, way to go on helping your own SON during his lowest point in life. This made me feel like H is lost with no one to help him or support him. Yes, he created this mess but if a person is mentally ill and not "all there" and doing things that conflict with his personality, how much do you excuse? I have honestly felt like it's my duty to not move on because this happened to him under duress. Even though he wouldn't say it, I feel obligated to wait even though nothing is guaranteed, and I have figured out I don't know if I could ever get past it now (the affair). He doesn't want to be with me at this point, that is clear. And I am certainly tired of limbo and being alone. He understood this. I get the impression he was trying to give me his blessing if I wanted to move on, and to tell me he would understand it if I did. When we hung up, he said, "Well, let's just say that we've had a first talk about this, and you now know where I am at. I will keep you posted. Take care..."
How is it that he did this to our marriage, and I end up feeling guilty? I think a part of H wants me to find a better life and be happy without him because he is not capable of being a partner to me (or anyone) anymore.
Anyway, just thought I would share this, in case it helps anyone else understand what "can" happen years later, post-bomb. If I can offer any advice I would say listen to the "elders" around here. Don't put your lives on hold. There are no guarantees that even when they reach the stage where they can begin facing what they have done that they come back to you. They are scarred for life and sometimes not able to be a husband ever again.
love, hope
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Dear Hope, This is exactly what my therapist said was happening to these people. He also told me that they have pockets of reality.
I can see that they have to heal fully, and recognise what they have done. It also echoes things that RCR has said about them resisting hitting bottom.
What an eloquent and honest post: it is so rare to get an insight into the mind of a MLCer. We get glimpses from people who have emerged and are working on the r, but to get such an honest glimpse into the confusion is both enlightening and painful. I can only imagine how you must be feeling.
Thank you so very much for sharing. REALLY. Reading it makes me so very very sad. They walk away from everything to go to "never never land" and when they do realize whta they have done....they have left so much baggage and pain how could they ever come back up...ever
M-20 years/BOMB 12/24/06 Moved out 3/12/07 D final 7/30/2008 finding myself again
Hope, I'm glad you had this discussion w/your h. It will help you to better understand everything that was involved w/him trying to find himself. He's hitting bottom and that's good. He's also reaching out as I suspected he would to you. You did an excellent job of listening and hopefully some of what you told him will sink in. Give him plenty of space and be there as a friend to listen. He's very fragile right now.
As for the fil, he can't help him. Your fil knew that the journey your h was on was one of self. Yes, he could have been there to listen, but the bottom line was that your h needed to do this on his own for he wouldn't have listened to his father or anyone else while traveling in the time zone of hell.
I hope that you are planning some wonderful hobbies for the fall and are keeping yourself busy. Hope, you are an amazing lady who has traveled the hard road with a lot of pot holes in it. You are going to be okay. Your h will be okay in time as well. He just needs to finish us his self discovery.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I didn't really understand that my H was having pockets of reality during all of this. I am glad that he told me about it last night. As he said, he would get them, act upon them, but then not be able to deal with reality so he would run away again. And yes, he actually said that he had "fought" hitting bottom for 2 years, but he was there now. I reminded him of something he'd said to me 2 years ago. He had told me that this is what he HAD to do, and if it meant that he fell flat on his face, he would take that chance. He did not recall ever saying this to me but he said, "Well, I did it. I bottomed out." It's very sad. I think after last night's talk I know now we will never be the same and never have what we had ever again.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Thank you so very much for sharing. REALLY. Reading it makes me so very very sad. They walk away from everything to go to "never never land" and when they do realize whta they have done....they have left so much baggage and pain how could they ever come back up...ever
I think that's about right. My situation was especially dramatic and there are so many substories to it that are frankly beyond belief. It's an incredible amount for him to deal with; I think this is why he feels us being back together is so far out of reach.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Thank you for commenting. I'm going to be ok...somehow. I've made it this far. I'm resting up today (obviously didn't sleep a lot last night) and processing all that we talked about. In the last couple of months I have really begun to accept just how badly off he is and incapable of being a good husband to me or anyone right now. I no longer hold out hope for us to have a relationship again. It's a lot for me to grieve; I remained hopeful for a long, long time. I'm staying busy and there is happiness in my life. I'm making progress. It's kind of weird but I almost feel like I got my H's blessing to move on last night. It's pretty much how it came off during our conversation.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
I know my original post was terribly long, so I wanted to point out again that my H told me "no wall, no matter how big, would have stopped him from proceeding ahead with what he was feeling he had to do." He made sure I understood it was not about me, I couldn't stop it, nor did I cause any of it. He emphasized repeatedly that this was all about HIM. (and not me, or the ow)
Of course, at the time, we LBS's cannot fathom this and we assign blame to ourselves because why else would our husband's walk out?
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
