Asking for help...not an easy thing for me

[inmyplace]

Pam,

Since you have no idea what will happen, all you can do is live your life and let the chips fall where they may.

Pam, there is no woman in my life. I have been divorced for 6 1/2 years. I have dated, but lately I have just enjoyed my sons. I am open to meeting someone, but haven't. There can be real peace in your life on your own. Maybe you just need to learn to love yourself and live with yourself.

Stop working at it and just live.

IMP

[CMNM]

Ahh, IMP...I feel my own words have come back to bite me. My pat answer to many people is "Just Be." So, having you tell me to stop working at it and just live makes me smile. Thank you for that reminder.


As I said, I told my H that he could come to watch his/son's Tues. night show here since son doesn't want to go to his place anymore. Well, when I got home from the gym last night, he was already here. I started putting things away and he came into the kitchen to say Hi to me. I simply returned the greeting and kept up what I was doing.

I had promised my son earlier in the day to make a snack for him during the show. So, about midway into it I called him to come get some hot wings that I made. I included his favorite dipping sauce as well as H's.

Then, I went up to bed. Sometime around 10:30ish, H came up to my room to say goodnight. Lemme backtrack for a sec... Earlier in the week I had told him that I had a wonderful dream about us. I didn't say what it was about, but I said that I woke up feeling at peace. I took his reply about wanting to hear about it as sexual... as if he thought it was "that" kind of a dream and he wanted details, so I kind of dropped it.
Back to last night- he said I never told him about the dream. I said that it wasn't the kind he thought and that when he took it to a sexual place I knew there was no point in telling the story. He said he didn't take it there, that I was mistaken. He didn't really look as if he wanted to continue the conversation, so we made a little more small talk (about his 2 primary subjects these days... how he doesn't feel well and how tired he is). Then, he left.

This morning I got a text message from him. It said:
Good morning! Thanks for last night. I would really like to hear about your dream.

So, I guess I will answer that, as I haven't yet. The dream was about us being in a relationship, and I woke up feeling as if everything was going to be o.k. It's very anti-DB, but I guess I will tell him about it. My prediction? He will ignore what I have to say. But, he did ask, and since one of my problems with him is that he picks and chooses which questions to answer, I will go ahead and reply.

I woke up thinking "detach!" Believe it or not, this IS detaching for us. The real key is to not take his interest as anything other than that... mild interest. This is where I veer of the DB course time and time again!

[kissak]

The real key is to not take his interest as anything other than that... mild interest. This is where I veer of the DB course time and time again!

I need to do the same thing, I veer with any interest also!

[wbfnm]

Hi CMNM!
I just read your thread and never posted to you before. From reading your thread I noticed some sort of communication 'pattern'.

I sense your DH wants to try but is discouraged by this 'pattern'. I also feel that if you take things slower you can get more results.

I noticed that everytime your DH approaches you, like asking about your dream, you tell him off. You say, it wasn't the kind you're thinking of so don't go there. He feels punished and leaves. Maybe if you take things a bit lighter and not assume he will do anything he might feel safer to talk to you. (besides if he did you could have made a little naughty joke about it and keep it light and funny)

There was another example I read but can't remember it anymore... Hmmm, maybe I'll post it to you later...

Did you read 'How to get your husband to talk to you'? It's by Connie Grigsby and another female author. Like the title says it's about communication and is very helpful also in talking with your sons. And then Mars Venus...

He is putting his feelers out..still. If you want the M don't cut the feelers off but stroke them ever so gently so he will come for more.

[wbfnm]

Hi again...
Read back to look for the qoute and thought I might aswell show you what I see..

One of the dumb things I said today was that he called me all weekend long about the tournament games, yet yesterday when the regular season started I never heard from him. This made him angry, and he said he is always doing something wrong according to me.

There it was... the other example He opens up. You criticize and he feels beaten again... You can even see it coming from his reaction. Be happy he called you the other day and shared with you. Don't expect it to be perfect all at once! He tries and even said so!

I probably shouldn't have said anything, I just thought that I was doing the right thing by pointing it out. I wanted him to understand my feelings.

And that is why I sensed slow down... You want to talk about your feelings but sweetie you are not piecing YET. Maybe if you just focus on the opening up bit first. Make him feel comfortable to talk to you and with you. Make him feel the posibility for a great M between you, also for YOU.

I started putting things away and he came into the kitchen to say Hi to me. I simply returned the greeting and kept up what I was doing.

Why? Maybe if you give him a little more attention. Like stop what you are doing look at him when you say hi and talk a bit. I can feel the cold shoulder from here. Not very inviting to talk and he did come up to you to greet you.

I had promised my son earlier in the day to make a snack for him during the show. So, about midway into it I called him to come get some hot wings that I made. I included his favorite dipping sauce as well as H's.

Great!

I took his reply about wanting to hear about it as sexual... as if he thought it was "that" kind of a dream and he wanted details, so I kind of dropped it.

You assumed and then punished him for it by dropping it. This sounds harsh doesn't it... I really see hope in your sitch and maybe that is why I'm trying to show you my POV. Sorry if it is harsh.

Back to last night- he said I never told him about the dream.

See he does notice when you drop the topic so to speak. He really pays attention.

I said that it wasn't the kind he thought and that when he took it to a sexual place I knew there was no point in telling the story. He said he didn't take it there, that I was mistaken. He didn't really look as if he wanted to continue the conversation, so we made a little more small talk

And there again. He opens and asks, you assume and punish (for lack of better word) he feels slapped and retreats. What if you did tell him about the dream? Honest. He just had an evening with his son at home with his wife making his favourite dip and he went upstairs to say goodnight had a great talk and left with a good feeling opposed to feeling slapped and may even find himself thinking about a possibility. Just showing an alternative... maybe when the next opportunity comes around...

This morning I got a text message from him. It said:
Good morning! Thanks for last night. I would really like to hear about your dream.

He felt guilty. This guy still cares. Just my POV

My prediction? He will ignore what I have to say. But, he did ask, and since one of my problems with him is that he picks and chooses which questions to answer, I will go ahead and reply.

STOP predicting, assuming and pointing out. You are cutting off all openings and communications. By assuming you already react in a way you think he will and guess what? he does...because you make him...

I'm not sure if you still want this M or not. I wrote this post just in case you do because of the cheeseless tunnel thing that you have to break out of. I really feel there are possibilities and you said it yourself: communication.
I know being separeted for a year and a half is long. I'm almost there aswell. But you have invested in so much time and energy to get your M on track. Please don't throw it all away if there might be possibilities still. Maybe if you read the book I suggested? I don't know if you are a religious person but you do not have to be to put the book into practice.
Sorry if I was hard on you.
hugs

[CMNM]

Sigh. Kissak, we will both have to stay the course, eh?

BB,
You're very perceptive. Thanks for giving your take on that exchange. I see what you are saying and agree that it probably was taken in the way you said. I, of course, didn't mean to do that. I think that I am just so afraid of getting my hopes up yet again that I block those opportunities as they come up.

I did reply to him. I told him that the content of the dream wasn't what really struck me, but instead the feelings that it left me with. I woke up and felt so close to him, and I also had an overwhelming feeling of "everything is going to be o.k." I apologized for any misunderstanding regarding all of it.

I do think that he puts out his feelers every now and then. I have also found that when I respond in a more appropriate manner, I tend to get hurt. I also have found that it seems that he is waiting for me to change this pattern we are in, and I really do need help from him. We need to change the pattern together, but I think he is afraid to try. Instead, he sits back and waits for my (predictable) reactions.

Also, I remember reading in one of my journals a while back that "Never again would I put myself out there!" Meaning, I was noticing that I would dive into the murky depths and pull out those feelings that we try to hide away, and he respond by pulling away or in silence. Yet, he would encourage those talks. It got to be that I felt empty afterwords. I wanted something in return, not just someone to listen to me. I wanted to share those deep thoughts, fears, concerns. So, you see, the dream was one of those deep things to me. I was afraid of sharing because I knew it would end up yet another one sided conversation. Why did I bring it up in the first place? I shouldn't have. I was just so caught up in feeling, for the first time in a looooooong time, so at peace.

I am really starting to sound like a real head case here....

[CMNM]

BB,

You are totally right and I will not defend myself here. You are even saying things that he has said, and I have been too hardheaded, too afraid, too _________ (fill in the rest of the negative things that apply).

You weren't harsh, at all. I needed to see things from outside of this horrible communication bubble that I stuck myself in.

I DO want my marriage back. I know I need to slow down, and I don't know why I have such a hard time with that.

Thank you for your reply. I think I need to go have a good cry. You are so right and I feel so bad that I keep repeating this cycle. I truly do not mean to hurt or punish him.

Thank You.

P.S. I will get that book. I REALLY want to be able to communicate with him. I know that I am 75% of the problem (more?) and I want to change this dynamic ever so much.

[wbfnm]

No you're not!!! You're human.

Of course you don't mean to do things to the man you love! I did not mean to imply that... Sorry if I did...I'm not American and sometimes my choice of words in a different language are not the ones I would have chosen in my own...

I still feel that you can change the situation. DH wanting you to start it might very well be true but does that really matter? He, in his own way, also tries to make contact with you. There is only one needed to change the situation around. Take the lead. Ever thought about the possibility that DH does not know how to change it??

Again, I do not know enough about your situation other than the thread I read. But by telling your most inner deep feelings in a M that needs to be rebuild might be too soon. There is lack of trust on both sides and I certainly understand that you need this but your M is not there yet... Talk to a girlfriend, sister, brother but not your DH YET.
Let him do ALL the talking for a while.

I read that you ask him to talk to you. don't. Let him start and be still. Just listen. Nod, say uhuh, and prompt him to keep talking once in a while. Do not give your opinion, interrupt, be busy with other things or criticise.

If he ask you how you are doing answer him but talking about your innermost fears and feelings overwhelms him right now. He might even feel controlled by you in forcing him to stay due to this. The guilt thingy.

I too long for the talks DH and I used to have. The past year I never intiated any talks. He does. And when he does...I just let him talk, talk, talk and talk. Boy... and afterwards he feels relieved. I have to tell you that my DH told me time and again he is afraid of talking to me. Now he does and even sayd that he needs to talk to me because I understand. LOL I just sit, nod, and prompt him. But the most important thing is that he feels safe again to talk to me. Slowly we are rebuilding trust. Now and then I tell something about me when he asks but I quickly sense when it's too much. My time will come, when our M is new. But then I've learned a lot about communication.

[wbfnm]

Sweetie our posts crossed!!!!
Please do not blame yourself too much!!
Oooh...i'm sorry if was too harsh. Don't cry... (unless you need it to release some fear and frustration...LOL

I'm sitting here with goosebumps because I sense all along that you still want this. It's ok. The hardest thing to do for us is to open up in a sitch like this.
I see the things I see in your sitch because I've been there. I can tell you lot's which I feel might help you but I do not want to put it on the net. If you want you can give me your emailadress? (don't put the at sign in there it will lead straight to this place)

How are you feeling?? Are you a bit better?
Please post again...I'm almost off to bed but i know i can't when you're crying over something I did... Sorry sweetie. I did not mean too. But maybe you crying hit something you knew but did not want to see???
HUUUGE HUG

[CMNM]

You didn't imply anything, and I did not take any of your words as anything but what I truly needed to hear. I can not thank you enough.

There may be just way too much water under this bridge to save this relationship, but I do need to come to the place where at the very least I can stop beating myself up about all of this. Oddly enough, seeing in black and white how I keep perpetuating these problems helps with that. Your reply brought up so much emotion in me that I realized that I really didn't understand the damage I was doing.

I know better now, and I will do better.

Thank you for the gentle nudge that I needed.