trying to get a grip...

[HBT]

Any advice would be welcome. I have a sitch going on in MLC but I am having a very hard time dealing with the separation. My h has been checking in or calling almost daily since he moved out; even stayed a few nights previously. But...

Every time he comes over for his short visits, I can feel him deliberately distancing himself, says he doesn't want to take advantage of me or give me false hopes. He is expressing verbally his state of confusion and trying to decide whether to work on our M or not. Up to now he had been 'trying' to keep an open mind about physical affection as we were practically inseperable before he snapped. He says there is too much resentment and lost feelings that I've created to bring him to this place. He's even told me I'm just fooling myself that our connection is/was there! We had always been the couple who made everyone sick to be around; very close. He's been living with ss until he can decide and it is 'all he can think about'.

My Q is this: if he IS in this state of confusion, whether to work on us or flee the M, isn't there anything else that can be done except to detach myself? Should I dare show him the DB book? Try again to get him to C?

I'm afraid if I LET him give up on us and he goes further away from the M, he is trying to convince himself it is over and it will be. He acts as if the decision is going to be made and thats what hes going to do. He just started consulting with his closest friends. I feel him slipping away...

[JMC]

Your sitch sounds very similar to mine and I wish I could offer some sound advice. In my case I am trying to detach and not pursue. However, like you, I feel her moving further away. After she moved out, we would get together for weekends (she would come over and help get the house ready for sale and end up spending the weekend - it was great until Sunday night when she would leave).

Anyway, I have since detached and plan to file in the next month. I was hopeful that my giving her space would result in her wanting to come back. So far that has not been the case, and I have strong reason to believe she has several affairs going on. However, evidently MLC can take 2-5 or 7 years, but I do not want to wait around that long.

Good luck to you!

[Bruce1]

HBT:

I would not give him the book, nor would I try to persuade him to go to counseling. My gut feeling, for what it's worth, is that neither would work right now. I know the feeling; we feel we want to help our spouses. We feel we can "fix" them. I don't believe that any longer. They have to work through this themselves. It hurts like crazy to feel this powerless. We are, though, really trying to do more for ourselves by thinking about giving them the book, etc. It would make us feel powerful, like we were doing something helpful rather than sitting around watching them.

But in the end, I have come to believe that is about all we can do. We must work on ourselves, and take care of ourselves. We must make ourselves the best, most desirable people we can be. That might attract our spouses back; it might not. We cannot force them back; they will have to make that choice. And we will have to make the choice of whether we want this person back, whoever they are now. We are all different people as a result of our crises. I am haunted by a line from a Bruce Springsteen song, "Will I know you? Will you know me?" None of us can say for sure, and that's frightening.

It sounds to me like he's really conflicted. I'm no mental health professional, so take this for what it may be worth, but he sounds like he doesn't know what he wants. It's just the opposite with my WAW--we communicate briefly on email about our dogs, and have had a few brief conversations about a few emotional issues, but she won't really get into the deep stuff and avoids contact most days. I'd try to let yourself distance from him, hard as that may be. He needs time to think and feel what he wants. In the end, it's really true that you cannot control someone else. You can only work on you. Try to be the best person you can be; work on improving yourself, and taking care of yourself first. What happens, happens. We cannot control them. That's a hard lesson, but a critical one for our own well being.

Try not to hang on his every word. I did that for a while with my WAW, and I still do to some extent. But, over time I'm getting better at stepping back from every little word I'm getting. I think our spouses themselves are conflicted. They say one thing one day, but may say/feel something else another. You might see that conflict, but you might not. It might be there even if you can't see it. Of course, it may not. But in a way that's my point. We really don't know, and we will drive ourselves crazy because a million different scenarios seem plausible. Each one makes sense. But which one is true? We just don't know. Take care. You have friends here, so don't hesitate to update us on your situation. We'll do the best we can for you. You are not alone.

[Bruce1]

HBT:

I'm currently working through a wonderful book called The Journey from Heartbreak to Connection: A Workshop in Abandonment Recovery. It's by Susan Anderson. She has a website, abandonment.net

Some of this is for people who are already divorced, but I've found things helpful for the separated too. She has some great stuff on the stages of coping. I've realized this summer that family issues that go way back to my childhood make abandonment one of the problems in my marriage, not just now during the separation. This is my problem to work on, and I'm doing so. It's very painful, but it's also empowering. I need to do this for me. Whether I get my WAW back remains to be seen, but I think we reach a healthy point when we start to focus on our own flaws and work to improve them. We also reach a healthy point when we honestly face our partner's flaws too. As Michele says, our problems are in the way we interact with our spouse, not just in one of us.

Take care and do something nice for yourself today, no matter how small.

[BryanS]

This has really helped me a lot. Thank you. My W and I used to be extremely affectionate when we were "on". Now she tells me she feels like she wasted the past 3 years. It hurts but if that's the way she feels at the moment, there's nothing to be gained by trying to convince otherwise. I think mkultra said this when she was talking about phone conversations: just repeat the word zen. Be at peace. If your H says something or does something that hurts you, acknowledge it to yourself but don't let it in and don't let it show. Maintain your serenity. In some ways, this sitch is about power and balance. Your H is demonstrating his power by getting reactions out of you. These in turn upset the balance because the more you worry about the M, the less he has to. So, chose not to let him have the power and restore the balance. If he's going to stay gone make him work for it, make him own it. Worrying and pleading and cajoling puts it all on you and he's free to simply shoot down your suggestions without having to think about what they mean. Stop that and his mind will pick up where yours used to be. Of course, I should listen to my own advice because I am pretty much in the same boat. Don't lose hope.

[mkultra]

DITTO to Bryan

Keep reading Divorce Remedy. He may beginning to enter MLC. He may have been there a while but is only now revealing it. There are several things you can do like show him your 180s. It is most advantageous to show the 180s while he is in the home so do not help him move out. Don't restrain him either. Use positive reflection. He will see himself through you so if he is feeling old, undesirable, worthless you can mirror that he has sacraficed a lot, that you love flirting with him as if he was desirable. Act confidant as though you believe you are desirable. But this is tricky, you cannot pursue him if he has low self esteem or if he is rejecting you. Why? Because he may question what is wrong with you to want someone like him. I am not a shrink. I just read Stop Your Divorce by Homer. I don't know your H, but you are in for a ride so be patient. Don't cry or beg or snoop or plead. Agree listen agree listen agree listen.

[w8ing]

Hey HBT! I'm so sorry that you are struggling. I know how hard it is. I'm not exactly in your shoes - H doesn't come here at all, unless it is to get the girls and he just waits in the car. He certainly doesn't call here.

He says there is too much resentment and lost feelings that I've created to bring him to this place. He's even told me I'm just fooling myself that our connection is/was there!

HBT - this simply isn't true. You didn't create this at all. And remember - someone who is in MLC will change your history together. They will remember none of the good and all of the bad. Please don't allow him to fool you into thinking you did something wrong!!!

I was looking at many areas of these boards on Friday morning and I found this post by Jamesjohn. I copied it and printed it out and have been reading it and re-reading it for the last two days. It has to do with the LRT, but really is applicable to our situation.

In this humble man's opinion, the "Last Resort Technique" can be one of the most misunderstood, most misused, most feared, and most underutilized of all of Michele's tools.

The LRT, as I see it, isn't so much a defined set of actions, patterns, or a "plan". To me, it's more of a lifestyle, an attitude, and a state of mind.

To me, it's the infamous "Dobson letter", the one that is written and re-written at least 10 times, truly taken to heart within yourself, then torn up and never sent. If you have the right state of mind, your partner will KNOW you have set both them, and yourself, free by your words, actions, and attitudes, without ever giving them the letter.

It's when you finally take your life back, knowing that the DB techniques you've been learning and practicing are mostly for YOU and the quality of YOUR life. If you happen to draw your partner back to you, well, that's an added benefit.

It's when you are able to quit "reacting" to everything your partner does, or doesn't say or do. You begin taking the actions required to make your life situations better for YOU.

It's when you can stop letting fear guide your actions, and can open your mind up to a whole new world full of solutions to the situations you face in your daily life.

It's when "going dark" isn't merely done to prove to your partner that their life will SUCK without you, while you're hanging around for them to "wake up", to call or show up to profess their undying love for you. It's when you can use the "dark" times to work on yourself, and take a much needed break from the chaos. When you can re-center yourself UPON yourself, and not them or your relationship with them.

It's when you are no longer willing to put your life on hold while you are "waiting" for your partner to "recover" from their MLC, depression, an on-going affair, their lack of love for you, or whatever. You realize that you are in charge of your own life, that YOU are responsible for YOU, and you don't have to sit around in limbo until THEY change. You totally quite playing the "blame game". It's when you realize that you are not a "victim" to what life deals to you.

It's when the dreaded word "divorce" no longer sends your heart racing and mind reeling. After all, most of us are in a position where our relationships ain't too great right now, or could be a helluva lot better. Wouldn't you really love to "divorce" yourself from THAT relationship, and start a new one with your partner that's even better than what you could ever hope or imagine?

It's when you realize that your partner is a flesh and blood human being, that they have their own faults, doubts, demons, and fears, just the same as you. When you can begin to let go of trying to control the way they think and feel. When you learn to let them "own" their thoughts and feelings without assuming that YOU are responsible for, or have control over, those thoughts and feelings. When you can not necessarily "understand" them, but truly "accept" them.

It's when you can learn to be humble enough to admit that maybe this really ISN'T all about you, and you can stop taking all of your partner's actions and moods personally. When you can let them talk to you, vent their anger, thoughts, and feelings to you, without you feeling that it's all your fault, and that you can "fix" it, and that you can make it all better. Or that they really WANT you to make it all better. Or, that you even have the power to do that.

It's when you stop trying to "push" or "pull" your partner back into the relationship with you, and begin to "draw" them back to you. When you strive to become an irresistible magnet that no person can stop from being attracted to. Someone that makes a positive difference in the lives of everyone they touch. Someone that can make your partner feel that their lives are less joyful, less fulfilling, if they decide to spend it apart from you, to not have you near them. That you are someone that can add meaning to their lives just by knowing you. That can be an example of being the best that you can be.

It seems that thinking about the LRT can bring many negative, doom-ridden, and "final" thoughts to mind. I encourage everyone to "reframe" these thoughts, to put a positive spin on the concept, to see the actual benefits of this tool. (Or, maybe, we should have this "state of mind" FIRST instead of saving it for LAST?!)

I know that there's a lot of times I wish that I would have seen this tool in a more positive light sooner in my journey. As for me, it may be something I want to use as an "On Going Technique" instead of a "Last Resort Technique"!

I hope this helps you somewhat.

Hugs!
w8ing

[HBT]

Thank you all for your posts, it is so helpful to read about others dealing with similar circumstances. I have read several books and naturally came to this website after reading DB and DR. Unfortunately I have already done all the negative things and acted pretty pathetic trying to talk sense into him. I am devastated over this, but am starting to come terms with it being a long road ahead. This is not going to be an easy fix, but I do believe in our M even though he can't see it right now. He is acting like a single man, not a 47yo h & father. He treats his son like his best bud instead of a dad and is now flirting and has commented on 'hot girls' in front of me-NOT like my h whatsoever! How humiliating!

H is definitely in MLC and I think its been coming on at least 1 1/2-2 years now. Looking back, the signs were there and even though it seemed he up and left within weeks, he says he's been struggling @ 3 yrs! I've had to endure every last detail of resentment and hurt I've caused him over the years and lack of control he feels he had over our current family environ; although its everything he wanted and created for us. Thank god the anger part is behind him and now he just seems very confused and apologizes constantly for what he is doing. He's lost alot of weight and his stress level is worrying me. He's trying to assure me that he just needs time and space and is keeping this separation all under wraps from most people until he can decide what he wants to do.

He still wants and does keep tabs on us at home but I cannot know what he is up to since he needs his 'anonimity' from me. He cannot even stand to be at home more than a few hours at a time; just too much pressure!? This is so trying on me and my health has suffered. I think I've turned the corner though and did handle myself with some dignity today in front of him. I told him I love him enough to give him the space he needs and I will do what is necessary for me and the kids here at home. I said I felt sorry for him because he's the one missing out on our family life, even though thats what he is choosing, its the little things. There were more details, but he seemd shocked by my overall response and demeanor I think. That was my main goal for now. Hopefully I gave him something to think about. It still hurts my feelings that he can't stand to sleep in our home, our bed, that its just too much stress for him right now, but he says he hopes to work this out.

I don't think it's a self esteem issue as he is the one who commands presence in the room, a very high level exec. He still tells me how beautiful and sexy I am, bleh!-then what is the prob??? I don't know if he's trying to make me feel better w/o him? He said I could date tomorrow if I wanted to which I couldn't believe he was saying really under the circumstances but then said if I did that would change everything!? I love our M and family and he knows that.

Yes, I do want to fix this for him, like yesterday; but reading these boards has told me that this feat is impossible. So I will wait. I'm not very good at the patience thing I must admit, so this will be a test of all tests! Definitely the hardest time in my life! Meanwhile, I am trying to keep busy and GAL as us dber's do!

[w8ing]

HBT - you did what all of us have done. It is certainly not pathetic...how in the world could you have known what was coming. If you were anything like me, you weren't expecting that conversation at all! I am still in shock from the last month and a half and cannot believe that it has happened. Your reaction was normal. And, by the way, your H should be the one who is humiliated - not you. He is the one making the inappropriate comments - it reflects poorly on him, not you.

What happened to his living situation with your SS. I thought that was ending....

w8ing

[HBT]

W8ing,
Good to hear from you! I agree with your post totally! I took some time recently to read and reflect and yes I do realize things must change and those changes have already begun! I've admittedly lost myself in our M and intend to do what I need to do to get ME back! There is alot of work to do no doubt and I'm still not sure what the right path is; but I'm thinking.... I used to be so independent and gave everything up for our M and family in too unhealthy a way.

I've been reading/responding in another thred which really hit home with me and I'm so thankful I came across it. There are some really wonderful people here!

My h is still coming by and calling and today I held my ground; the first BIG step for me and I think I gave him alot to think about! I hope anyway. I'll check in on your thred...Thanks for keeping tabs on me!