For anyone looking for good advice about how to shut up, read the later part of my last thread. Some pointed, but excellent, advice from OT.
Quick jounal.
Not much interaction with my W on Friday. I was beat from a week of work, so tried to stay away from her because I was in a crotchety mood. Just tired, no other reason.
Annual Canoe Canoe trip yesterday. Every year for the last 12 years, go on a canoe trip with a fluctuating group of people. In the past, when we were all MUCH younger, it's been a bit of a booze cruise. More low key this year, but still a lot of fun. Little drinking, little sharing of eats, little conversation as we tie together and drift. Very hot this year. Went down the Shenandoah this year. Decent current and no head wind, so my shoulders aren't too sore
Think it might be time to ramp it up again next year (17 people,had 35 last year).
Anyway, went with a co-worker who's become a good friend of both my W and I over the years. She stayed for dinner. Did a little DBing last night. Awful thunderstorms in the area late yesterday, which screwed our plans for grilling. She called, was stuck in Safeway because the CC machines kept going out. She also got soaked, so by the time she got home, was in a bad mood. So, my friend cut up the chicken and put it in a Mojo marinade (very tasty if you can find it in grocery aisles near you, Goya brand). W came in all flustered because of all of the above, her plans were screwed. In the past, I would have gotten a little angry and tense back at her. Instead, calmly explained that we had dinner taken care of, I'd cook black beans and rice. Not to worry about it. I was helping her a little get the groceries put away. She was little tense (just the way she is). Kept snapping at me. I remained calm. She apologized once or twice, "not angry, just wet and aggravated at everything." I said, that's fine, low key, no big deal.
Anyway, was cooking the chicken (basically stir frying it). Usually, she would have been talking to our friend in the living room. She stayed in the kitchen with me, was telling me about a few things that she had bought for the new apt (food we could split, cleaning supplies, mundane stuff like that) as well as the bunk beds her and the girls had seen. Asked me about the trip. At one point, she said again, I don't want you to feel like I'm pushing you out, you can take your time, it's just that I see things on sale and it makes sense to get them and I'm just trying to help you.
I was agreeing, "yes. yep. um hum, i know". She's said this 3 or 4 times over the last week, and she said it 2 or 3 times last night. I finally turned to her and said soemthing like: "I want to get out of the house too. After all, how often in the last 2 years have I moved that quickly on something? You saw a good deal on an apt, I looked at 5 the next day and signed the lease same day. While all of the things I've been telling you about the way that I feel for you remain true, I also want to get out. I feel like I need some space to think and be myself. I've told you already, I appreciate the things that you're doing for me. I know that you're doing them out of friendship and just trying to help and that I'm OK with that. You don't have to be concerned that I think you're booting me out. Really, it's fine."
She did look a little surprised at the first thing that I said, especially when I added that even if you asked me tomorrow, or now, to work things out, I'd still move out.
After that, had a nice conversation and meal. Touched me on the leg and thanked me for cooking. Then I left to go to my best friends to watch UFC. Close to his W as well, so we chit chatted about the sitch. She told me she was impressed with thte way I've been handling everything, which was great to hear. Thanked her for being such a good friend through all of this. In addition to some good fights, also picked up an extra microwave from them for my apt (ironically, the same one my W and I got them for their wedding -- they can't use it, they have a built in one in their house).
We're about to leave to go buy bunk beds for the girls. Spent about an hour figuring out what would work best in the space that we have and where to buy. Going to get a new cell phone plan today as well.
Anyway, getting things together to move. Starting to become real. A little sad about it, but also excited.
W has been much nicer in the last week than in the last 4 months.
Happy Sunday to everyone.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
Sounds very good, H, very amicable. Glad that you're a little excited. She looked surprised when you said you'd move out anyway? That'll give her something to think about.
Let us know all about your move and how you get on.
I haven't finished the book, but I'm pretty sure that Acts of Service is one of her love languages, so I think that's part of it. I also think there's a good bit of habit in there -- in my mind, this is the biggest reason. She's out shopping for the house, easy to just throw a few extra things in the buggy.
Then, perhaps some combo of the following things: 1. She's really just trying to be nice 2. She's going to date/is dating OM, so she feels guilty and is trying to make this as easy as possible for me because of that 3. She just feels guilty for breaking up the family (regardless of OM issues) and is trying to make it easy on me.
I mean, she knows I know how to shop. It's not like I'm a lost babe in the woods walking through a store. So, near as I can tell, some combo of the above thoughts.
Haven't really been thinking too much in the last week. Was starting to drive myself batty. Just kind of relaxing. Probably one of the reasons she's been nice, I've shut up. Finally.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
BD--Just read your last thread (thanks for the link) and about being able to finally shut up. I myself kept giving lip service to shutting up, but I couldn't even do it when H left the house! It took a DB road trip, 2000+ miles and three vodkas to get it through my head.
I LOVE OT--I may be her #1 fan, as her 2x4s are one of the few things that can get through my thick skull and 21 years of history. If you want more advice vicariously, I am over in Separated (should have been Adultery, but there was only a week leeway in those two events).
As far as AOS / guilt: AOS is my H's LL. Also what he is rebelling from. Looking back, I got a Sirius radio for the car (Dec 06), a new car that he co-signed (Feb 07) and a new puppy (April 07), all as ways to ease his guilt. I don't think it helped him, but the stuff is nice ;0)
"W is shopping because she mommies you. It is a long-standing habit. Right now, it makes her feel especially good to mommy her little boy to make him feel all better as much as possible even though she can't avoid hurting him in other ways with grown up stuff. Unfortunately for the little boy, little boys aren't very interesting romantic partners for mommies."
I really do not see a downside to taking a strong stance on your independence. Require it from yourself. Do not permit her to interfere. Quit letting W wipe your nose.
"W, I really appreciate all your kindnesses. Right now I need to move to an independent life, so I am going to have to put a pretty strict boundary when it comes to my space. My space is my business, including how I take care of myself in my space. I welcome and accept your gifts as housewarming gifts from a friend. But beyond this I have to politely ask you to respect my home as my home. The day-to-day details of maintaining that home really are my domain. I hope you understand."
Be independent. Be strong. Be direct. Be confidant. Be kind. (That is, if you want to be an attractive romantic partner. This goes equally for women BTW.)
Hmmmmmmm, never thought about it that way. To me, it's just been a continuation of our normal marital division of labor.
Might could be something there. Plus, over the last day or two, as having my own place becomes real, I'd prefer to go out and buy the rest of what I'm lacking myself. It's just been such a habit for the last 7 years or so that she does the bulk of the shopping that it's not something I consciously thought about until a few days ago. Had a short conversation about this a few minutes ago. Just mentioned that I'd rather she not get anything else, because I'm not sure of how much storage space I have and I don't want you to get too much and for me to have nowhere to put it.
Lemme ask you this: if she's doing this as an AOS and not in a mommying way, do I shoot myself in the foot by cutting her off from doing something nice for me? Again, this is basic house stuff (that we've already agreed to purchase out of joint money to start a separate household -- note, this is fair financially to me).
Beyond our girls room, I've already been clear that I'll do what I like with the apt. She also knows that if there's a disagreement on what to do with their room, I'll make the final decision (sad thing is, we agree on most everything. Generally always have). Though I did find myself asking her opinion about possible desk placement this morning. Happened as we were talking over coffee, kind of a natural conversation. Old habits are hard to break. "Hey, what do you think of this." Just happened to be about a new place I'm moving to.
Quote:
Be independent. Be strong. Be direct. Be confidant. Be kind.
Yep, the old/new me. I think she's starting to see it and I think she's a little surprised, though I'm not sure about this, that I'm moving so quickly to move out.
As always, thanks.
Donna, wondered where you had got to. May be joining you over in separation in a week or three.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
Quit trying to manage W. Your W can find AOSs that don't involve being your mommy can't she?
Manage yourself. Set your boundaries.
Who else would you let stock your kitchen for you? W's appropriate role right now with respect to your new home is as a guest, not a household manager.
Hinting that you won't know where to put stuff is not direct. This is direct: "W, I prefer to take care of that stuff myself. Thanks for thinking of me though, I appreciate it."
Heim-- You mention the past roles of who did what in your M. You have to let those go, and take on all of the roles that are needed as a single Dad, without your W's input. She needs to see that you can do this all on your own. And you need to feel it, too.
That is when she might start to miss the role/place that she played in the family.
Come on over to Sep when you are ready, or stop by to read my thread. You'll get a double-dose of OT, along with some other great advice that I bet would apply to your sitch, too.
Just don't be too hard on yourself. Making these kinds of mental adjustments as to who we are, and where our spouses really are, come in time. They unfortunately can't be rushed.
