At periods I've been a frequent visitor and participant at this board, starting around Christmas 2005 and then again shortly in February of this year. Since my last posting back then, a lot of things have happened, but maybe I should first give a brief summary of my/our stitch...
Both: Northern Europeans Me: 40 XW: 36 Met: 1997 Married: 1999 (moved to Latin America right after) 1st child: 2001 (D) 2nd child: 2003 (S) (moved to North America in 2002) XW came into MLC: 2005 (I didn't understand that until December 2005, after EA, Bomb and PA...) EA with OM: May 2005 Bomb: August 2005 PA with OM: Fall 2005 Separation: December 2005 Divorce: May 2007
I met another woman in the Spring of 2006, that relationship ended Summer of 2007.
XW moved back to Europe: October 2006 D6 and S4 moved back to Europe: December 2006 D6 and S4 have been staying with me - in North America (where I live) and Europe - for 3 months between April and August 2007. Next time to met them are around Christmas 2007.
OM is a self-proclaimed "guru" who relishes his freedom, independence and deep spiritual capabilities. XW has been actively pursuing that same spiritual path - almost fanatically - ever since entering into MLC and especially since meeting OM.
OM has now "moved" to Europe to live with XW, something they never did in North America (on his request, though XW wanted to, but he didn't want to be bogged down with day-to-day mundande life and with two kids, my theory). It might also be worth mentioning that OM (11 years XW's senior) left his own family to pursue the "free and independent" life as a self-proclaimed "guru", and also that he's starting his time with XW and D6 and S4 by going to wander in Spain for 1,5 months...
Now to the questions/issues that I would like to have some comments to:
1. In mid-July - when I last picked up the kids - I gave a note to XW expressing that my heart was still open, me feelings had not changed since she left me and that I would be willing to one day try again. I know, not in accordance do good DB-ing, but I felt I had to convey that message to her. Her response was way much better than I had feared/expected. She said in an email the following:
"I appreciate your fine card...I admire your courage to release these feelings and emotions after all we've been through...I also admire your ability to forgive for what has happened...You have grown as a human being, and I'm glad that you're our children's father...Because you're opening up and are honest, I want to do the same...I don't want to hurt you, but I want to be honest...I want to continue this relationship [with OM] and give it a chance, not the least because now he's taking this step and moving in with me in Europe...You're a fine man, and I admire and respect you for your courage and your warm heart. It would be wonderful for the kids to live together with the parents we are today, both at the same time, but I'm not there today. We do not know what the future has in store, but this is how I feel now."
What do I make out of that??????
As far as I can see that is lightyears away from the venom she used in the fall of 2005, in describing me and her treatment of me. If this isn't babysteps, I don't know what.
But at the same time, what do I do now/next????
2. What I have learned from these pages and the discussions herein, the way I see thing is that there are basically five processes in play here:
A) XW's MLC - which should be about halfway through, and due to the postponement of sharing the daily life of OM, maybe the replay-phase has been extended beyond the two-years that is mentioned in the six stages of MLC?
B) Rebound-relationships in general - are often not bound to last. Some people here have stated that OM/OW is like a drug, but sooner or later that must fade, or?
C) OM's lifestyle and life choices might not be compatible with the family life XW really is looking for. I think that he's afraid of commitments, and even more so when it might involve being partly care-taker of two small kids.
D) The fading out and rebalancing of her own life, i.e. find a balance between real life and spiritual adventures, singing crystal bowls etc. She used to be very down-to-earth, but since entering MLC, she's a "spiritual fundamentalist" that preaches and talk constantly of her enlightenment etc etc.
E) My own handling of it all, and the message to her that I have forgiven her and that I am open in case she wants to. I have basically given her unconditional love, which I think is in accordance with DB-principles. Correct me if I'm wrong.
3. For me, the tough part now is to be without my kids for almost a year (I'm on contract in North America), but my plan is to return to Europe next Summer and then take one or two years of parental leave to be with the kids. My hope in the meantime is that XW goes through the last 3 stages of MLC, breaks up with OM (on her own making) and get a more balanced approach to the spirituality of herself. If not within the next year, at least that some of the above mentioned processes will start to "kick in". I don't know if that sounds reasonable at all, but it's the best plan I have right now, and the only really strategy to deal with my last year in NA and at the same time give her some time to face the reality of OM, working life and two small kids.
Thanks for your comments and suggestion. I wish I could do that... I've been trying to do so for quite some time, but so far without success. The problem is too that I need to have contact with her (to get in contact with the kids, which I like to do on a weekly basis by phone and postcards, and almost daily basis by email).
attorneytom,
Thanks for your reply and understanding the situatione re: the kids. Problem is that XW (and the kids) lives far away from any of my potential "homes" back in the home country and that I also do not want to disrupt their lives (school etc) too much by taking them to my parents etc. I can't take them here to NA either due to similar restraints, so I guess I just have to bite the bullet on that one, just like I did between mid-December and mid-April this year. But I do have an understanding employer so I am given one trip every six months to see my kids, so I'll use that to at least see them a couple of times before moving back next Summer.
Somehow.. some way.. there has to be a creative solution to your sitch with your kids...That is the main thing, yes ? Six months is way too long btw.. I will ponder this for a bit.
I can see how confusing this is for you. The way I would look at it is this.....it is what it is. Hard, yes? And that just sucks.
So..what now? Well, I think you should focus on YOU and where you want to go! She is going to go down this path no matter what you do. She will most likely realize that this is a mistake some day. The question will be...where are you? If you keep moving forward, you will be at a better place than you are today and only than can YOU CHOOSE what you want.
How tough to be w/o your kids that long! That is too long, I agree w/Tom. Any options?????
Glad to meet you Jax! Wish it was under better conditions, but we are all here to support each other!
Hijack to Jazzy.........
Your thread is locked...start a new one b/c I have some input
Me-BS 38 X-WS 36 Separated 11/15/2006 Filed for D 8/1/2007 Divorce Final 12/21/2007 S13, S13 (twins), D9 Married 13 Yrs Together 20 Yrs
I know that it sounds like a really long time to be without the kids from now until Christmas, but in reality it's "only" four months, so it shouldn't be too bad, even though it's going to be tough to be without them for so long once again.
Regarding XW's behaviour/comments etc, doesn't that sound a wee bit encouraging, especially considering what she's been saying before... Couldn't it be the first babysteps towards withdrawal (stage 4 in MLC) and awakening (stage 6)?
Jackson, you have asked for my input regarding your sitch and I can only hope you have "read" me long enough to know I don't sugar coat things.
First let me say that I am sorry you are away from your kids for such long periods of time. Four months IS a long time but you have a good attitude about it and I know that the kids feel that. It's still a very unfortunate reality, though...
MLC....God knows it does send a person "out there" where the buzzards won't even fly...the lifestyle of your ex's bf may well attest to that but let me put it to you in the most extreme way I can: He is not the om anymore.
Quote:
"I appreciate your fine card...I admire your courage to release these feelings and emotions after all we've been through...I also admire your ability to forgive for what has happened...You have grown as a human being, and I'm glad that you're our children's father...Because you're opening up and are honest, I want to do the same...I don't want to hurt you, but I want to be honest...I want to continue this relationship [with OM] and give it a chance, not the least because now he's taking this step and moving in with me in Europe...You're a fine man, and I admire and respect you for your courage and your warm heart. It would be wonderful for the kids to live together with the parents we are today, both at the same time, but I'm not there today. We do not know what the future has in store, but this is how I feel now."
I appreciate the honesty of your wife's note and think you have no choice but to respect it. She told you she's "not there today" while also stating it "would be wonderful for the kids to live together with the parents we are today". That shows a little growth and a slight footing in reality but I'd really have to have some serious background information to form the opinion your ex is really in MLC and not just on a permanent mental vacation. The vagabond she seems to have hooked up with would be of great concern for me, too, if I were you. But I think that's because of the liklihood he's going to break her heart. Perhaps I have interpretted your description of him wrong and if so, I apologize but I have the impression of your wife traipsing around TOTALLY oblivious to what her kids are learning from this period of so-called "enlightenment".
Sheesh. I think I've been harsh yet trust me, I am guarding my words tremendously. I do not know your wife or her history or what led up to this. Perhaps she was a good woman with a solid foundation that mlc has caused to all but lose her mind. If she had that kind of background, I would call her "lost" for sure.
As for you, I respect the fact that you dare to hope and I do believe there is nothing that can't be turned around. The question lies only in the positioning of the "pieces" and from your ex's mouth (via her note) you have heard it, she's "not there".
Live YOUR life. Get as close to your kids as possible. Especially with the "shacking up" that seems to be on the horizon.
I know that you don't sugar coat, and that's one reason I wanted to hear your view on the sitch. I would also like to say that I very much appreciate you taking the time to look at my sitch, and to give so many good insights and comments! Thanks!
I think that I got most of it, and you're probably right in what you say, even though there are a few things that I don't really get all the fine nuances about (I write that down to the language barrier, English is after all my second language). Anyway, the questions I had are first and foremost related to the following:
Quote:
He is not the om anymore
I guess that means that he's the Man now, and not the Other Man, or?
Quote:
wife traipsing around TOTALLY oblivious to what her kids are learning from this period of so-called "enlightenment"
I didn't really get that one, but you're right in that she used to be very grounded with a solid foundation, albeit with a belief in astrology...
Quote:
I would call her "lost" for sure
"Lost" as in lost in this weirdness, or "lost" as in lost for me? Or both?
Quote:
The question lies only in the positioning of the "pieces" and from your ex's mouth (via her note) you have heard it, she's "not there".
I guess you're right, but "only" in the positioning of the pieces. That "only" sounds pretty strong to me, but I can't really do more than I've just did. Now she knows where I am and what my position is and the rest is up to her.
One final question:
Quote:
"shacking up" that seems to be on the horizon
"Shacking up" meaning that they are now moving together and getting stable/solid together or?
A final word about XOM (now BF). He's quite the character. He calls himself "spiritual peacemaker" and gives massage, organises filmnights, and is soon to go on a quest/walk for six weeks in Spain. He got a calling, and then he responded. He doesn't care about money, responsabilities etc. He doesn't have a job, an income or anything of that kind. He once said to XW - when she broke up with him (for 14 hours) in October 2005 - "give me money for a plane ticket to Europe and I'm out of your life for good". Now he's in Europe...
As to my XW's MLC or not, of course I'm not sure, but my theory is that she's and has been for a while. I've read "Midlife crisis for dummies", "Six stages of MLC" and a lot more on this board, and she was behaving exactly in accordance to all those descriptions out there. She also to a large extent went from one opposite to another as to her own life and partner etc. My guess is that she's still in replay (a very long replay) but that is mainly because she's been able to pretend to be happy thanks to all the new age-stuff and - probably most important - that she and her BF have not been forced to live a regular life together.
He's wandering the world, and she's at home waiting for him with my kids...The irony of that is just mindboggling. She used to complain that I didn't do enough at home (although I did more than most other men I know, I took the night shifts, did all the laundry, put the kids to sleep etc etc etc), all while I was working more than fulltime and she was home looking after the kids (which of course is a fulltime job in itself!).
I don't think there's much more to say about the two of them, but if you want more details in order to better understand, I can of course provide you with that, but for the moment, I can't think of anything more that might be relevant.
Regarding your final recommendation to look after myself, be close to the kids etc, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. It won't be easy, but I don't really have any options, and if I do that and do it well, it doesn't really matter in the long run if I get her "back" or not.
Question is if I'm able to stand all the pain in the meantime, but hey, who said that life (especially with an XW in MLC) was going to be easy?
I know that you don't sugar coat, and that's one reason I wanted to hear your view on the sitch. I would also like to say that I very much appreciate you taking the time to look at my sitch, and to give so many good insights and comments! Thanks!
I think that I got most of it, and you're probably right in what you say, even though there are a few things that I don't really get all the fine nuances about (I write that down to the language barrier, English is after all my second language). Anyway, the questions I had are first and foremost related to the following:
Quote:
He is not the om anymore
I guess that means that he's the Man now, and not the Other Man, or? Right. She divorced you and now he's the primary man, not the "other" man. Sad but true. BUT...he's still not worthy of a capital letter, so we can call him bf
Quote:
wife traipsing around TOTALLY oblivious to what her kids are learning from this period of so-called "enlightenment"
I didn't really get that one, but you're right in that she used to be very grounded with a solid foundation, albeit with a belief in astrology... I must tread lightly here and not elaborate. Most know where I stand on this stuff and what I will back it up with, especially astrology however, you have now clarified that "he's wandering the world, and she's at home waiting for him with my kids" - so my first impression of her being on the road with him was mistaken. That being said, like every other single case on these boards, we have to look at what the kids are learning.
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I would call her "lost" for sure
"Lost" as in lost in this weirdness, or "lost" as in lost for me? Or both? Lost in MLC.
Quote:
The question lies only in the positioning of the "pieces" and from your ex's mouth (via her note) you have heard it, she's "not there".
I guess you're right, but "only" in the positioning of the pieces. That "only" sounds pretty strong to me It is very strong but not in the way that you imply - positioning and will, that is what it will boil down to. , but I can't really do more than I've just did Agreed . Now she knows where I am and what my position is and the rest is up to her Right again. .
One final question:
Quote:
"shacking up" that seems to be on the horizon
"Shacking up" meaning that they are now moving together and getting stable/solid together or? It means quite frankly, that they will soon be living in sin, in front of your children. I do not call that "solid" or "stable". Us rednecks call it "shacking up" ;).
A final word about XOM (now BF). He's quite the character. He calls himself "spiritual peacemaker" and gives massage, organises filmnights, and is soon to go on a quest/walk for six weeks in Spain. He got a calling, and then he responded. He doesn't care about money, responsabilities etc. He doesn't have a job, an income or anything of that kind. He once said to XW - when she broke up with him (for 14 hours) in October 2005 - "give me money for a plane ticket to Europe and I'm out of your life for good". Now he's in Europe... You said a mouthful when you quoted him "give me money...". We have names for men like that here, too....and it ain't "guru", I'll tell you that!
As to my XW's MLC or not, of course I'm not sure, but my theory is that she's and has been for a while. I've read "Midlife crisis for dummies", "Six stages of MLC" and a lot more on this board, and she was behaving exactly in accordance to all those descriptions out there. She also to a large extent went from one opposite to another as to her own life and partner etc. My guess is that she's still in replay (a very long replay) but that is mainly because she's been able to pretend to be happy thanks to all the new age-stuff and - probably most important - that she and her BF have not been forced to live a regular life together.
He's wandering the world, and she's at home waiting for him with my kids...The irony of that is just mindboggling Not so much. He has created himself quite the romantic, noble character. But make no mistake, my hunch is this guy "roams" because he can't hack real life. . She used to complain that I didn't do enough at home (although I did more than most other men I know, I took the night shifts, did all the laundry, put the kids to sleep etc etc etc), all while I was working more than fulltime and she was home looking after the kids (which of course is a fulltime job in itself!).
I don't think there's much more to say about the two of them, but if you want more details in order to better understand, I can of course provide you with that, but for the moment, I can't think of anything more that might be relevant.
Regarding your final recommendation to look after myself, be close to the kids etc, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. It won't be easy, but I don't really have any options, and if I do that and do it well, it doesn't really matter in the long run if I get her "back" or not. EXACTLY
Question is if I'm able to stand all the pain in the meantime, but hey, who said that life (especially with an XW in MLC) was going to be easy?
