Corri, seeing your thread is locking up, and this is a subject that is likely to have a life of its own, I took the liberty of starting a new thread specifically for the workshop.
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Interesting.
Quote: GGB: Yup my initial reaction was Ah sh!t, I got Corri ticked at me, and while I was looking forward to said workshop (and not sure if it was for real or not), life got in the way.
Quote: Chrome: if you are serious about a workshop and not just making a point, I'll be happy to join in. I know I don't have the greatest track-record of responsiveness (re: our QM discussions), but I'll do my best.
What was the motivating factor for both of you saying what you said, that I highlighted in bold, above? Seriously.
Both of you are pressed for time, have gone so far to express that... yet, you both have stated a willingness to add even more to your plate... because:
a) It is something you really want to do, and you'll make it fit, for you are that motivated;
or
b) You are somehow feeling bad/guilty for me, you are mildly interested, and to keep me 'happy' on some level, you will try to participate, extending yourself beyond an already full plate.
or
c) ____ fill in your own answer____.
Corri
For me, the answer is a). Same reason I spend as much time as I do on this BB. If my M were perfect, I wouldn't be here. If I'd figured out how to be more attractive on my own/less fused on my own, I wouldn't be here. While my time is at premium, my M is important enough to my happiness and well-being for me to squeeze whatever might help my sitch into my busy schedule.
Thank God your answer wasn't b). And I don't know that I was expecting it to be a), so a ^5 to you for surprising me. Determination like that, the kind that takes a woman a bit by surprise, is quite attractive. Not to the point that you mow her over in a disrespectful way... but, in the same way that Hairdog is moving forward with his concert trip.
Lesson 1. When you have decided to take back control of your own purpose and life, you need to seriously begin to think about what that is going to feel like. Imagine for a moment that your wife has been steering the ship for some time now, and you've let her, if for no other reason than to keep the peace...
When you take charge of the wheel again... odds are she isn't going to like it too much. You have got to be prepared for her resistance, and it's probably going to be very uncomfortable for you. HOW are you going to deal with that discomfort?
The 'surprising' determination you've shown here... and remaining calm and consistent (personal boundary)... is something you might want to keep in mind. Really understand how it feels inside of you... so that if you move out of this state... you will know.
Lesson 2. Now that you HAVE decided to take this road... what is your new purpose and direction? You don't have to tell me, I don't need to know... but YOU do. As simple as it may sound, that has got to be the hardest life question in the book, and women and men will answer it differently. It's probably going to take some time to answer. You may refine it a little, here and there, especially as you begin to learn things about yourself. But you have to commit to it, even if it's WRONG. The 'act of' committing, that action step, committing to your purpose, over and over again, is how you initially practice.
Make any sense to you?
And Chrome, Lou... anyone... when have we EVER invited each other to participate in a thread here...???? I'm really hoping that others pipe in their thoughts on this as well.
Hmm, This is a tough one. She hasn't really been steering the ship, rather we both have. She was once a borderline militant feminist, Gloria Steinham zealot etc. Growing up, having kids, trying to balance kids and career and got knows what else has moved her all the way to the other end of the spectrum politically and ideologically. In our early years I allowed her to have too much control of the direction, mostly to keep the fur from flying. These days, she's not so keen on having the control, but it has been a slow process for me to take it back. Old habits and all. I'm sure it doesn't help that my Mom steers the ship in my FOO. Anyway, she lately seems to be pretty willing to let go of the tiller so maybe the issue is mostly in my head.
Now that I've written that, I just realized that I kind of missed the point. I think you were talking about my emotions and reactions to my emotions, not so much about running the household. With that in mind, then yes, she still does control how I react, and that is ONLY BECAUSE I ALLOW IT! (lightbulb) I have been making baby steps with taking back that part, but frequently having to slap myself to remind me that I have to be honest with how I feel. I am finding when I ask myself, that a lot of times I don't really know what I truely want.
The resistance from her seems to be taking the shape of many I'm sorry's (something I am guilty of too, and trying hard to break, thanks to a post here a few weeks ago), and petulence. I guess I need to stop rescuing her from that and call her on the superfluous I'm sorries. In other words, build up an immunity to that tactic.
So I think I've already got a bit of a jump on the questions at the end of the chapter for lesson 1. Lesson 2, on the other hand, was the 'surprise' lesson for me. I've got to ruminate on that for a while, because frankly, I don't know where I want to end up other than someplace other than where I am now. Google maps won't give me directions to "anywhere but here", and for good reason. I guess your point there is that I need to decide where I want to go before I can chart a course out of here. Wow!
--GGB, excited, yet scared senseless takes a seat on the rug, ready to learn.
FWIW, I’m not convinced that it is so important to know where you want to go, for who truly knows? Intended destinations can change as circumstances change, and that is actually good I think. What I do think is important is how you react and feel about your latest intended "destination." Too many times we think we want something only to find out that once we got it, we don’t want it.
I know my wife has done some of this, wanting some level of control, then complaining because she has it and plus all the responsibility and stress that comes with it. I have also seen her claim to want something but then sabotage either her or myself when things come together to give her that something. In either case, it results in being stuck in limbo, which creates a frustration greater than simply adjusting to whatever it is she supposedly wants.
IMO, she is reacting and trying to balance off two fears, one of not having control versus the other of gaining that control but fearing the possibility of failure. It is crazy making. IMO, this is the core of the teaching “To thine own self be true.”
The value in knowing yourself (which includes FOO) is as that you can therefore avoid projections onto your spouse and also erect honest boundaries to protect your from the projections of others. Without self knowledge, projections and false boundaries between two people can set up a series of negative self –reinforcing cycles which tear apart a relationship.
IMO, the problems in most relationships originate from false knowledge, either of yourself, your partner, or the perceptions of world by one or both people. The only exceptions to this seem to be due to hormonal/chemical/medical issues or true personality disorders.
I have no idea how many are lurking here as I have been, but this latest thread finally has me jumping in the pool! I have silently benefited from the conversations and threads on this board, and am sincerely appreciative of the insights shared by everyone here. I have an old original thread on newcomers for those who are wondering about my backstory. I must warn you, though, it's not brief, nor is it pretty.
Corri And Chrome, Lou... anyone... when have we EVER invited each other to participate in a thread here...???? I was thinking GGB, me Chrom have similar situations but for different reasons, so it might be better to work on one person's R and not muddy the water with multiple people's individual issues.
I have questions 1 and 2 and some answers in my word processor.
What was the motivating factor for both of you saying what you said, that I highlighted in bold, above? Seriously.
Both of you are pressed for time, have gone so far to express that... yet, you both have stated a willingness to add even more to your plate... because:
a) It is something you really want to do, and you'll make it fit, for you are that motivated;
or
b) You are somehow feeling bad/guilty for me, you are mildly interested, and to keep me 'happy' on some level, you will try to participate, extending yourself beyond an already full plate.
or
c) ____ fill in your own answer____.
Me saying "I'll be happy to join in" means "I'll be happy to join in."
This is something I want to do, for a variety of reasons. One, the guy who had been mentoring me for ahwile, blackfoot, is just too busy himself to take on a project as demanding as me. Two, I think I do have an odd mix of attractive and very unattractive qualities that I would like to balance more on the side of attractive. Three, I bring a unique perspective to any discussion. Four, my marriage, while MUCH better over the last two years could stand for some serious improvement, 50% of which has to do with me. Five, I need something to break my W and I out of our current Sargasso Sea, and I've found that talking about my situation and looking for specific solutions helps me not only with providing me things to do, it helps with my PMA when I am busy. Six, nothing is more important to me than a healthy marriage, because it is good for my W, gives me the foundation to be as good a father as possible, and helps me pursue my PURPOSE with more vigor.
Chrome
Last edited by chromosphere; 08/16/0708:32 PM.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I agree with you that the final destination does not have to be cast in concrete. But that was not really my point. To put anything down on paper, as a personal destination, is really tough. Yes, it can change. That is the great part. But you do have to move... and I personally believe that it is best to at least have some idea of where/how, in order to begin, even if you aren't convinced that the way you have chosen is where you really want to go.
I am a woman, so my example is going to be a bit different than what a man might say, but for me... it took approximately 24 months to solidify my purpose/direction for my new life.... but I DID have a general idea of where I wanted to go, at least, as I was figuring it out. I lost my fear of being 'wrong.' It was the only way I could get myself to move. I don't know that men have the same fear... but there is probably some fear in there, botching up the process. Try to figure out what it might be.
Prior to that, when I was married, when my shrink asked me... "what makes Corri happy? And I want an answer that is all about YOU... it doesn't include your husband, your kids, your house, your friends. It is a question that is all about you..." It stumped me for MONTHS.
The exercise is designed to specifically leave out any other person in order for you to really confront yourself. If you think about it... it is an exceedingly difficult question to answer... because we are ALWAYS pulling someone into things we do that make us happy. That's the point. That's why it is so hard.
So, GGB, and anyone else, I really want you to give this some thought. YES. It can change. But that isn't the point of the exercise. It involves YOU and no one else. Take a week, if you need to. I'd like for you, if you can, to check back in by Aug. 23. If you want to do it sooner, cool. Same goes for anyone else following along. If you don't have answers by that time, don't sweat it. Do your best... and let's see what you've got and where you might get hung up.
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With that in mind, then yes, she still does control how I react, and that is ONLY BECAUSE I ALLOW IT! (lightbulb)
Excellent. As practice... try to become more aware of yourself when you interact with your wife, especially your emotions, and where in your body you feel them. Head... chest area... solar plexus...groin area... the reason for this 'where am I feeling' is to help slow yourself down and get out of autopilot. To be 'aware' takes a lot of effort, and sometime you'll get it, and sometimes, you won't. If you have time, it is good to keep a journal as you go through this. If you don't, don't sweat it.
Lou: You are retired, correct? How long have you and BB been in the house where you currently live? Were you living there when you retired? Was BB a homemaker when you retired? If you don't want to answer here, you can answer on your own thread.
I read in horror ( A loooong read - My reconciliation Journal) that a W wants to leave her H and kids to take care of a mother and then parties with some hard-core party animals to boot.
If you go back to the Sex starved Marriage forum and read chocolateyes old threads, some or your situation sounds like his. Choc is now in the process of D.
He allowed his W to do what she wanted till she found someone else. No sex in a M isn't good for either one of you. Sometimes being kind and going along with her not feeling the love is not what you need to do.
LM start a thread so GGB's thread stays on track.
a poster that goes by the name of NOPkins might show up and give you some needed advice.
Corri, Hmm, What makes GGB happy? That's going to take some serious pondering, which I will do. I can't promise I'll have it figured out in a week, but hopefully I will have gained a little insight at least.
I missed something with the feeling where in my body I feel the emotions. I never really noticed any locality to my emotions, but probably just because I wasn't paying enough attention. I'm not sure where you are going with this, but I'll give it a shot.
BTW, thanks for taking the time to work with me on this.
And I don't know that I was expecting it to be a), so a ^5 to you for surprising me. Determination like that, the kind that takes a woman a bit by surprise, is quite attractive. Not to the point that you mow her over in a disrespectful way... but, in the same way that Hairdog is moving forward with his concert trip.
