Frustrated and More Saddened #3

[Heimlich]

Stew,

She's been sick, cut her a little slack. As Cliffy said, focus on some positives. You've got MC to look forward to.

Still playing basketball?

BD

[stewart10]

Well, today is not going very well. I walked into the bedroom to her on the phone and crying. She was talking to her brother. I asked her after she got off the phone what was wrong and she said she had just been talking to him about everything. She then really began to cry and told me that she is so unhappy and cannot live like this anymore. I asked her what will improve things for her personally and she said being apart. I asked her if I was the sole source of her unhappiness and she told me yes. She gave me the ILYBNILWY spoutage. She said she felt like we were holding onto something that isn't there and that the Dr. told us that if there was no flame left then there was no hope (I knew that was going to come back and bite me). She said there was nothing left. She said she felt like I was pushing the relationship and I asked her how. She told me I said that I would leave two weeks ago and I didn't. I reminded her that she told me that moving in with my family may not be the best idea and I also reminded her that in between that and now, we had a MC session that was supposed to take precedence. So she said, fine you stay here and I will leave.

So then she asked if I could give her a few minutes so I got up and left. Few minutes later she comes out and kind of stands at the table. I reminded her we had a MC session tomorrow. She said she doesn't want to go and that "what am I going to say tomorrow that I didn't already say today". I told her I thought maybe she could talk to him on her own. I said I wouldn't even go inside but would drive her down there. She said she didn't want to go. I said, fine but you have to call him. She went into the room and few seconds later, she said she would go to see him.


So not a great day today. Man, this is so hard. Hearing that stuff really hurts bad. She told me how I didn't understand how it felt to tell your husband that you no longer love them. I told her I didn't but I know how it feels to hear it. I never really know what to expect from day to day but I was not expecting this. UGH

[savingus77]

Wow - that is really tough. Looks like you knew exactly what to say to her though to encourage her to go to MC/IC with it still seeming like her choice - you must know her well to know that she wouldn't rather just go than to have to call and cancel it.

You are handling the situation as best you can...

[Heimlich]

Ug, Stew, for what it's worth, I got the same basic speech. You know what, we may have played a role (maybe even the largest role) in causing our spouse to feel as they do. OK. Fine. We own that and are trying to be better. What we can't own is our spouses swallowing their feelings of unhappiness about us; then turning around and saying that they are unhappy ONLY because of us. That is absolute and total BS. We may be part of the reason, but we ain't the whole reason. Don't let it shake you for long.

Good job on allowing her to vent and giving her space. At least she did agree to attend the MC session tomorrow, so that's something.

Moving out is a tough call. I've got an ebook on separating that was pretty good. Going to reread it next week. Drop me a line if you want me to send it to you: [e-mail]

I know that since I've been moving, it's been stressful because I've been tired, a little mopy/sad, and snappish toward my W, but I do feel the pressure from both of us being removed. WIthout my W being willing to work on the M together, there was no way that my staying in the house would have caused a breakthrough. I would have eventually just gone insane with not being able to express my feelings. However, with her being "done" and me being willing to move out but leaving the door open, I think there might be a chance. Of course, it might all be BS and she's just waiting to move the once and future OM into my spot, but that's HER decision and reflects poorly on her, not me.

And seriously, you knew this wasn't going to be smooth sailing. Keep on keeping on.

BD

[stewart10]

Thanks Savings. Yeah it was a but unexpected today. I do know her pretty well so I usually know the right buttons to push.

What I don't understand is why she is having such a hard time with this. If there really was nothing left in her for me, then why does she cry so terribly. She just came out and said she was sorry and that this was all like a nightmare. I just don't know what to do. Having a really bad day.

[savingus77]

I know, I think the same thing about my H - as probably do most of us on here. I think that's what keeps us all hanging on. My thoughts on it are that she still does love you (I don't believe you can live a life with someone and then shut those feelings off) - but she is confused about still wanting to be with you for x,y,z. All you can try to do is change x,y,& z.

[stewart10]

Yeah, Heim you are right. Although at this point I don't think she is leaving the door open.

We own that and are trying to be better. What we can't own is our spouses swallowing their feelings of unhappiness about us; then turning around and saying that they are unhappy ONLY because of us. That is absolute and total BS. We may be part of the reason, but we ain't the whole reason. Don't let it shake you for long.

Within a few minutes of saying I was the sole cause of her unhappiness, she said she thought the Dr. knew that it wasn't just her marriage that made her unhappy. I asked her what else and she said there were other things. So I don't know what to think of anything she says.

I know that since I've been moving, it's been stressful because I've been tired, a little mopy/sad, and snappish toward my W, but I do feel the pressure from both of us being removed. WIthout my W being willing to work on the M together, there was no way that my staying in the house would have caused a breakthrough. I would have eventually just gone insane with not being able to express my feelings.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I kind of had the same inclination when things were not getting any better but did not want to come to grips with exactly what this means.

Just got a really nice hug from her. It has been so long that I even had one of those. But knowing that it was done without any love makes it bittersweet. God I am going to miss her so much.

[Heimlich]

Stew,

W and I had a brief conversation yesterday (or maybe the day before). To preface, in April, she said it is absolutely, unequivicably over. You can't change. You won't change. I'm happier without you. Etc. She's been trying to help me logistically to pack/split stuff, which I've been appreciative of. Can't remember the seque, but I said something like, "well, at least you like me at least a little now. You hated me in April." She said something like, "not hated, but definately didn't like. but we're getting along better now." Said something else, but I'm blanking. A wee bit tired from work and moving.

Anyway, upshot is. Feelings can change. Hang in there. I'd say my odds aren't great, but there is at least a chance, I believe, today whereas two ro three months ago -- no effing shot.

She's been begging for space. Give it to her. My W has gone from saying on any occassion of bringing up the R, "I'm done. It's over" to "I just need to be away from you for a while" -- I repeat, "for a while". A small sign. Maybe a verbal slip. Who knows, keep the expections to a dull roar, but maybe, just maybe backing off is going to work. Hey, that's what OT keeps whacking me in the head for, right?

BD

[stewart10]

Hey Heim:

Yeah, I suppose my W is where your's was in April. I told her today that things can get better between us. She said that she did not see that happening and that things aren't better between us. I told her that if someone had said to her the day we got married that her feelings could change that she would have thought they were crazy. I told her things change and feelings change and that they can just as easily change back. I probably said too much about us not spending enough time together contributing to our issues, but felt like I had to get that out.

I think she is packing some of her bags now. She has work tonight so I think she is really leaving for good today. I didn't hear "for awhile" even though I really wish that I did. I am going to have a tough few days and weeks ahead. I would usually lean on my father on a day like today but lucky him he is docking in Nice, France today. He probably could use a break from my problems so I am glad for him. Also learned today that a very good family friend of ours had a stroke and is on life support at the hospital. And this on top of my older sister having a miscarriage on Friday, me losing my job last week and possibly my marriage. 2007 has not been a great year so far.

She's been begging for space. Give it to her.

I don't have any other choice right now. I told her back in the beginning of July that if she needed to move out that she should do it. She was back the next day. I took that to mean she didn't know what she wanted. Apparently she just felt guilty about doing it. I wish that when she walks out of the bedroom that she would only have her purse in hand, but that is not going to be the case. So the separation begins today. I just feel such a deep love and admiration for her that I could not imagine my feelings for her changing no matter what she had done to me in the past. I don't see how this could have happened. She is right, this is just like a big giant nightmare. I am praying so hard to wake up.

[Heimlich]

I told her that if someone had said to her the day we got married that her feelings could change that she would have thought they were crazy. I told her things change and feelings change and that they can just as easily change back.

My brother from another mother! Were you outside my house a few months ago?

OK, stop it. We both know that additional verbal pressure doesn't help us, but we sometimes do it anyway. While I think there's a fine line to walk in accepting responsibility and saying too much, for now, just let it lie.

When she walks out -- no begging, crying, or R talk. After she leaves, fine. Do it know, and there's a wonderful expression my W used a while back that finally sunk in, everytime I started to talk about the R she said it was "like fingernails on a blackboard." I know, I know, it's hard to do, but just stop talking. Start working on being that happy guy she fell in love with and married. She'll come back or you'll attract, eventually, someone who's not going to cut and run when things get hard.

Man, sorry to hear about the family/friend tragedies. Don't get down on yourself for your job. Look on it as a blessing in disguise, you were saying that you were looking anyway. This an opportunity for you. Just refrain from sitting on the couch, watching the new TV and throwing beer bottles on the floor (ok, maybe do that one weekend); keep GAL.

It'll get better. I didn't get that little caveat from my W "space will be good for us" from her until I started giving it to her. I was smothering her and making both of us miserable in the process. I wish I could describe to you how to get to the point of "well, if she's letting go, so am I and it's time to focus on me (while holding open the door to a future with her)" but i can't. I think we all get there by slightly different routes. It is possible though.

And you're right. Feelings can and do change. There's nothing to say that your W's won't change back. But, ain't gonna be overnight. Strap in for the long haul. I can tell you from experience that when I was gone over teh summer, that I was less stressed than when i was around my W.

2007 has not been a great year so far.

Year's not over yet, my man.

BD