Trying to set those goals!

[Trixi]

NO NO THAT'S NOT WHAT SHE SAID!!

LOL! I know she didn't say that, specifically. I am just thinking that I am going crazy; I do not want to think of him being with someone else; I do not want to be constantly rejected by him; I do not appreciate him being all happy while I feel like a piece of discarded crap. I do not feel like being "his friend". [disclaimer: I am in a really really bad place right now, so I am not thinking clearly. I know that my feelings are running amok with me at this moment.]

This just feels too hard on me right now. I would feel so differently if we had been fighting non-stop; if we hated each other; if we weren't attracted to each other; but instead, I just feel like the person I love most in the world is refusing to put effort into a marriage that could have been amazing with some effort and is throwing it away for the hope that he'll find someone better.

People misuse the "act as if" phrase from michelle's books. but i think you have a potential proper use of it.
"Act as if" him dating you (exclusively) is a positive thing, and can happen. Then, it might. But it WONT, if you don't think it can.

I sorta get that; I don't know how to apply it to real life.

[Dom R]

"Act as if" him dating you (exclusively) is a positive thing, and can happen. Then, it might.

I sorta get that; I don't know how to apply it to real life.

(side note: this is where you might want to call a professional "DB counsellor" if you can afford it but I'll take a short stab at it)

only you can fully answer this. But sometimes, it helps to ask the right question of yourself.

So, question:

"IF you make the assuption, that your husband is still capable of dating you exclusively (even though he isnt willing to COMMIT to doing so).. and IF you make the assuption that he could potentialy enjoy it, and you too... Looking at your situation with 'fresh eyes', ignoring what you have done in the past... How would you act?"

Basically... i'd say be open to going on dates, and let him make up his own mind on whether he enjoys it or not.

Avoid expectations.... try to see each date as a "new" thing.
Just as he has probably placed a mask over you... you may have placed a mask over him, which may be preventing you from seeing what he is like "right now", vs 10 years ago. if you get a date with him... dont expect it to be like any date you've had in the past. Dont think of it as "reminding him" of stuff in your past (although if there were fun things in the past that come up, theres probably no harm in acknowledging that. just dont make it ALL about the past). Live in the present, and build an enjoyable "now".

Try to see him as a brand new person, and see if you learn anything about what he wants in the present, vs in the past.
Enjoy the moment as something new between you. have fun

[SallyM]

agent99, we all go to that bad place/have that bad day once in a while. trust me, btdt. I go in waves...where I don't care at all, and where I'm angry as hell...where I can see us maybe having a future together, should he ever get his head out of his...fog, or where I could never see us having anything to do with each other outside of the kids.

hopefully it will pass soon...ride it out, then try to focus your energy on something more positive.

[Trixi]

H managed to lock his keys in his trunk, so I had to go and unlock the car.
While I was driving him over to the car he said "I wasn't mean last night, was I?"
Me "um..don't you remember?"
H 'Yeah, I remember'
me after a very long pause "I don't believe you were malicious, but it was mean to me."
H "I was just trying to be honest."
Me "Uh huh"
H "well, I just didn't want it to turn into a "friends with benefits" type thing."
Me "That wouldn't have happened--that is why I told you, you would have to date & court me before any sex happened. I don't "date" my friends."

Somewhere in there he had asked how I was feeling and I said that I was pissed and that him working to kill his feelings really ticked me off and that he could have used "the Secret" to make his marriage better, not destroy it. I kinda went off. I am tired. He obviously cares about my feelings (to a degree) and I think that he is hoping we'll be friends thru this. To all who do that (be friends with the WAS)- I tip my hat. I will help him if he gets in a bind (like today) but I just don't see how I can continue to have contact with him and still keep my sanity.

One of the things he said to me in the past was that he knew he could do what he wanted and I would always be there. Trying to keep me as a friend sort of feels the same to me. Does that make sense?

[tk180days]

Hi 99 -
Wow your story is kind of like mine. My H had a knee jerk reaction after a fight. Said we needed to divorce and that he just didn't think we were a match. That he wasn't "In love with me". Four days later he moved out, got an apt for 6 months. Same - the common fights no yelling or screaming. Always very happy & loving with me. Brings me coffee every morning, we'd talked 2 -4 times during the day. We cooked together, envolved in our church. Great spontanious love life - always good to me. No major problems and now this! I can relate - No friends with bennies! He hasn't even tried - we just hug. We've had dinner a few times/ lunch. So confusing - hang in there. I have I guess a date with him next week. I'm praying he'll have an awakening! Blessings!

[SallyM]

why do I have this vision of him locking his keys on purpose, just so he could have the talk?

maybe next time, try not to rise to the bait? I don't know...just seems like he orchestrated the whole thing. or maybe I'm projecting my own H. he's the puppet master, you know.

hope you have a good, GAL-filled day. You are worth soooo much more than he is treating you.

[Trixi]

why do I have this vision of him locking his keys on purpose, just so he could have the talk?

I had the same thought. But he would have had to be pretty clever; first he had me look in his truck for the camera-I call back (much later) and say it's not there, did you check the trunk of your car; he calls back (much later) and says "yeah, I found the camera in the trunk- and locked my keys in it. Can you come unlock the car?" If he would have called from jump street with locking his keys in the car, then I might have really wondered.

Did I mention he tried to give me a kiss goodbye (twice) and each time I gave him my cheek? I sorta feel like he wanted to make sure that he hadn't totally peeved me off. That I was still 'in the background' for him if he changed his mind.

This morning, I had this quasi epiphany. I was half asleep, so it might not make sense...
My lightbulb moment was this--he says he wants to feel totally broken up. If he doesn't get to have that feeling, I think he will just keep up the shenanigans until he does feel that way. I understand that letting him think we are *totally* broken up is risky since it will (theoretically) relieve him of guilt if he starts to date someone else. (My hope would be that his conscious would kick in and he would remember that he *is* still married.) That's not my main point. My main point is that he verbally says he wants to feel totally separated, but yet it seems like he is trying to make sure he has a spare tire if he needs/wants one. I don't think he should get to have that feeling. Seems a little cake eaterish, if you ask me. Appears to be more of the same "I can do what I want and I know you will always be there."

I don't plan to be mean or vindictive. And if it relieves him of guilt for me to drop out of his life, so be it. He will never have a chance to really know what it feels like to miss me if he always has me hanging on in the background.

Ala "love must be tough", I think I need to open up the cage door completely, kick his feathery butt out the door and then move the cage. If he wants, he can always come back and see if I'm willing to try. We all know that when someone *really* wants someone, they will stop at practically nothing to get that person. I made things SOOOOO easy, he doesn't appreciate my value. There is nothing that he did not get with me, except for a challenge. And THAT is why he can only say good things about me and that he will ALWAYS love me. But a lot of good that did me. There's no passion and it became "boring" because the hunt wasn't there. A 180 for me would be to cut him off in all ways.

Am I nuts?

[Trixi]

Hi 99 -
Wow your story is kind of like mine. My H had a knee jerk reaction after a fight. Said we needed to divorce and that he just didn't think we were a match. That he wasn't "In love with me". Four days later he moved out, got an apt for 6 months. Same - the common fights no yelling or screaming. Always very happy & loving with me. Brings me coffee every morning, we'd talked 2 -4 times during the day. We cooked together, envolved in our church. Great spontanious love life - always good to me. No major problems and now this! I can relate - No friends with bennies! He hasn't even tried - we just hug. We've had dinner a few times/ lunch. So confusing - hang in there. I have I guess a date with him next week. I'm praying he'll have an awakening! Blessings!

I read another post of yours; I think you are actually in pretty good shape since he is still wearing his ring, etc. Mine took his off the day we had the big talk about separating. I am sort of curious, though, about one thing. I can see someone saying something stupid or knee-jerk'ish while drunk and fighting. The part that strikes me as odd is that he then went out, looked for an apartment and signed a lease. Presumably, by then, he was sober and thinking clearly. So, there must have been much more to this story.

Anyway, I think you need to start your own thread, tell your story and ask for input-- I'm afraid your questions are getting buried (and missed) because they are sandwiched in other peoples' threads. Just copy and paste.

[Dom R]

A 180 for me would be to cut him off in all ways.

Am I nuts?

you're not nuts. but you are misusing the "180". the way a lot of people do around here.
"cutting him off completely" is really "LRT".
180s, are supposed to be different, yet POSITIVE, changes within yourself.

recognize the difference.

You havent really done too much in the way of 180s. except the witholding physical stuff. which is GOOD! but isnt enough to get him to notice you.
withholding physical affection gets him thinking about past fun with you. it doesnt get him thinking about future fun with you.

The "you'll always be there for him"... you might think of disabusing him of that notion ASAP. Next time it comes up, tell him that if he starts dating someone else, he'll be seeing a whole lot less of YOU. and if he divorces you, he will be seeing NOTHING of you, and just forget about asking you for help with anything.
Show him how tough you are. after all.. he asked for it
I think he's been sounding you out. And you're still sounding like a creampuff to him, because you didnt stand up for yourself in that area.

I think that he's still interested in you, but at the same time, testing out pulling away. When you dont stand up for yourself, I think he takes that as validation for him pulling away becuase you're "not strong", and not showing him boundaries.

to restate a bit: I dont think the whole "open the cage door and let him go" applies to encouraging him to go. Obviously, you cant STOP him. it's his choice. But dont say, or even imply by NOT saying otherwise.. that you will "always be there for him".
That validates what he is doing.

[Trixi]

Aren't I, in effect, basically *showing* him that I will always be there if I let him see me? Regardless of what I say?

If I were to say to him "If you date other people, you will see a lot less of me", that won't phase him--that is what he is trying to get anyway. Dom, I feel horrible for "arguing" with you; I really don't mean to--I just am having the hardest time wrapping my brain around all of this.

I think that he's still interested in you, but at the same time, testing out pulling away. When you dont stand up for yourself, I think he takes that as validation for him pulling away becuase you're "not strong", and not showing him boundaries.

What kind of boundaries can I possibly set on someone that doesn't live with me and wants to consider us completely and totally separated? I already told him that I won't be part of a harem and he would have to date and court only me to get back with me. I am now not letting him even give me a kiss on the lips. How else can I stand up for myself? And now he has told me that he doesn't think we should "date"; that he doesn't want to date anyone else, he only thinks of dating me--but he doesn't want to do that because he wants to feel completely separated. WTF?