Fearless, of course I know I'm fcukable, but feeling good about that is more difficult when no one is fcuking you than it is to feel good about being beautiful, talented, or appreciating one's other good qualities when alone.
My point was that the quality of being fcukable (or being marriageable, for that matter) is by definition something that is validated in relationship to someone else, like partner dancing, or singing a duet, or riding on a bicycle built for two.
Like playing tennis. I can know I'm a good tennis player but to KNOW it, I have to play tennis with someone. Otherwise it's just theoretical. If I know I'm a good pianist, but I have no piano, it's just theoretical.
Let's not nitpick this to death.
As I said on Mojo's thread, I know I'm fcukable, but I can't fcuk myself.
I think the point Schnarch was trying to make is that people seek validation for other things besides "f*ckability" both when they seek and avoid sexual activity. The HD partner isn't dysfunctional because they perceive sexual desire from their partner as validation of their sexual desirability. The HD partner is dysfunctional when he/she seeks validation for things besides sexual desirability through sex or avoids seeking sex even though it is wanted in order to maintain a level of validation for other attributes. The LD partner is dysfunctional when he/she seeks validation for other attributes in order to be sexual.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
David Schnarch's approach is complex. You have to read the entire book, not a snippet or an interview. I started reading it 6 years ago while looking for help with problems, and put it down. Just recently, with my outlook having changed, I read it straight through and soon go into his approach.
All of the clients and examples in his book are dysfunctional, or they wouldn't be hiring him. But he doesn't waste his time with people who are not committed to marriage. He is not a fix-it coach or technique coach.
Most people here would be happy to get back to mediocre sex. Schnarch and others are about moving your relationship to a much higher level. Schnarch focuses on passionate love, others address the entire package, where sex is just an essential component.
You say that you applied Dr. Laura's principals. How does the HD partner actually BELIEVE the LD partner when they do this? I wonder because even if my own wife could start changing, how can I ever BELIEVE her. I have to think that the LD person has painted themselves into a corner. Their HD spouse wants GENUINE desire, and the LD spouse has already made it clear that they DON'T have genuine desire. So how does one solve this problem?
People can only genuinely desire things that they want but don't have. Part of the problem with self-defining yourself as HD is that you are pretty much saying "I will always or usually desire sex more than my sexual partner." This is also part of the problem with self-defining yourself as "nice" or "the one who is working on the relationship". Unless you measure such things in a purely objective fashion, you are pretty much saying "I am going to behave in a manner that will ensure that you are filling the relative role of low desire, bad person who does not work on our relationship." For instance, it has occurred to me that perhaps the reason I didn't make more of an effort to "make myself attractive" much of the time when I was married was that I knew that if I did, I would attract men who I would find more attractive than my 2bx and I didn't want to be the bad guy who wanted out of the relationship sexually.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
A man left his wife even though they had a good marriage because she was very calm and he wanted to have more emotional effect upon her.
I'll tell my XH about this theory of yours and I am sure it will get a laugh from him! Emotional and passionate are definitely part of how he would describe me I think.
Clearly the problem was the husband's "need to be needed." Maybe that was your H's problem.
Definitely not. Sometimes he even thought I was too needy. (I don't think I was. I have my weak times but I don't think that makes me weak.)
As much as people hate this term my XH really did have a MLC. I read through a book called "Middle Passages" by Jungian psychologist James Hollis which explained that EVERYONE goes through middle passages. It is the time where people have to start facing their shadows and many of their coping skills for those shadows start to fail them. EVERYONE has shadows because it is a natural part of child development. He also has another more recent book called "Why Good People do Bad Things" which discusses the same issues too. REALLY REALLY great books with so much relevant information for EVERYONE. I cannot recommend them enough. Anyway midlife crisis tends to happen when dealing with your shadows is just too hard. Considering my XH also had issues with shame he was really in no place to deal with everything. And I was in no place to help because on the outside here's this funny, smart, talented great guy and I had no idea of the core issues he was dealing with.
I was unhappy with my H's unhappiness/depression/anhedonia but that was because it manifested itself in tangible ways that made him a poor marital partner.
I hate to ask this question but did you really even like your 2bx?? Did you have much in common?
My XH and I would spend hours sitting outside in the spring, summer and fall (and warm winter evenings) drinking wine (and occasionally smoking cigars) and talking and planning. We were best of friends and had so much fun so much of our marriage. Cooking together, kayaking, hiking, buying wine:), planning trips, etc. People were so surprised when it happened. My brother's wife said it made her nervous about her marriage because she thought we were so happy and good together so it seemed that divorce could happen randomly. THIS after her parents had divorced.
Anyway I just don't get the sense from you that you and 2bx were really compatible.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
No I said I naturally have always basically done the things that Dr. Laura says to do. Probably because I am naturally that way to start off with and then I choose to be in relationships where I want to act that way.
The rest of your post doesn't much sense to me and I am not sure what you are asking. But I'll still venture an answer.
Their HD spouse wants GENUINE desire, and the LD spouse has already made it clear that they DON'T have genuine desire.
Well in your case you're lucky because, according to old posts, your wife HAD genuine desire for 2 years before you married and 2 years after. The desire for you probably IS still there and may just be buried under resentment of you, frustration, loss of attraction, etc. Then add in possible physical reasons (hypothyroid, etc.) and it gets more complicated.
The hardest part of all of this for you will be for you to let go and forgive your wife for her failings as a wife and let go of your resentment. If you cannot do that, I really don't know how she will become desirous of you again. (Really who desires bitter, frustrated, resentful people?? Who even wants to be around them for friends??)
That's where Deida would NOT "give" you permission to leave your wife. Because the anger and resentment you hold on to so strongly indicates how much work you still have left to do on yourself.
Look at Mojo. It's AMAZING how little resentment she has given how awful her husband was to her (meaning telling her she was too nerdy to f*ck, screaming and physically scaring her, not being able to hold a job and losing money, etc.) You know why I think she has little resentment? Because she has developed such a strong sense of who she is. She is able to let go most of her anger (not all:)) because it is a wasted emotion which will only drag her down and she is smart enough to know that she is ready to soar.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
