So this has nothing to do with any weakness or flaw in you or Chuck. It has nothing to do with either of you rejecting the other. It has to do with conditioned responses that need to be reprogrammed. If the both of you can try really hard to get on board with this concept, you will be able to see quick changes.
This is brilliant. I agree 110%, for a multitude of reasons I can't get into right now for lack of time...
It is the responsibility of BOTH spouses to speak each others LL with enthusiasim.
I do agree with NOPS, when your LL is PT, you have only ONE person that can speak this to you, which of course automatically puts all the pressure on that person and creates neediness. There is no suitable alternative to this.
What if he finds it too uncomfortable to participate in these activities? Should he try to confront his feelings about it? Yes. That is what Deida man's, confronts his fears.
And, do HD people typically consider PT their LL? Is that why they're HD? My guess is that it is pretty common. What I wonder is why people DON"T have this as their LL. It is so chemically addictive, not sure why people don't have this as their LL. I would guess that one common reason is that peoples bodies react differently to their ability to become addicted to the chemicals of physical touch.
What about meeting BOTH LL's at the same time? My wifes LL is WOA, so she fishes for complements by listing ALL the stuff she does everyday. She will even list everything for me, like somehow this will impress me. Now I appreciate everything she does, and I probably she give her more WOA for it. But at the same time, this is really not what I want from her. So there is this huge disconnect. I would probably give far more in WOA if the wife was actually doing something for me that I care about (not what she cares about). FOr example: Wife: I just did the Laundry, cleaned the bathrooms, made the beds (the pauses to wait for WOA). Husband: Well, that was nice (Thinking, I really don't want that, I want to spend the evening snuggling on the couch).
So we end up with the wife doing the WRONG stuff to et WOA, and then she is disappointed when she does not get WOA. I have even offered to do ALL the things my wife lists, and she turns me down. Soetimes I wonder if they dislike the sex stuff so much that they try to overcompensate by doing all this domestic stuff and expect us guys to give the WOA for this, thinking somehow this makes up for their lack of physical touch.
I guess what I am saying, is if your LL is WOA, then fish for compliments by doing things that your husband wants in his LL. This way boh spouses get what they want simultaneously. Or is there something in women that says that WOA must be given on what THEY consider to be important. Maybe WOA for being physical just don't count as much.
Hi Mrs, I don't know you well, or know your sitch well but your personality reminds me of my H, and so I thought I'd respond.
Firstly, I was wondering if the two of you are really that good at showing vulnerability to the other. Saying, "I've had a really bad day and I could use a good talk with you" is somewhat vulnerable but being able and willing to say "I need you so much" is truly being vulnerable, kwim?
Secondly, until you both get in the habit of meeting each other's needs I would expect that any attempts to speak LL's will be awkward and forced. It's not really that you don't love each other or consider your spouse worthy of the effort--it's that you're not in the habit. I'd think of it like starting a new job or something--anything that helps you detach a bit from it. If you look back thru my threads you will see that I'm the crappiest detacher ever, so understand that it will take a long time and lots of practice.
Thirdly, resentment builds when you *want* to say something but you don't. If you know you are like this, then get in the habit of saying it when it pops up. It seems harsh, and it may seem like it to him at first, but getting it out in the open keeps it from compounding and resulting in him being 'punished' 3x as much as the original comment would have done. Iow, don't fool yourself into thinking that by sparing him your true feelings, you're doing him favors.
Finally, I think it's wise to keep in mind that cac is a guy. He is not wired to be a stellar conversationalist and share feelings and such. I think it's absolutely fair to expect him to *listen* to you, though. And he can certainly learn some conversational techniques to improve your enjoyment of this time together. But be careful not to keep raising the bar..."I'm upping the sex life so he'd better start sharing his feelings with me..." and so forth. Have you ever read a book called "What is he thinking?" (or something like that) It helped me to get an idea of how men are wired, what is reasonable to expect. It was really enlightening! It is filled with actual research and physiological descriptions of the differences between mens and womens' brains so it appealed to me, rather than a more psychological approach.
Anyway, best of luck to you! You can do this. Try not to worry about how awful it feels (and it does) as you're going through it. Avoiding feels better in the meantime, but ultimately drives you farther apart. You're doing the right thing!
And how do you think he feels? Can you empathize if he thinks he's responsible for your unhappiness?
I suspect he feels the same way. It occurs to me that he is playing the parentification role as much as I am. He could never make his father happy any more than I could make my mother happy. So we got together believing that we were responsible for making the other happy, when the reality is that we can only make ourselves happy.
I know he has been extremely frustrated with me in the past because as he sees it, no matter what is going on in our lives, I'm unhappy with something, and I he assumes that I'm unhappy with him.
But I'm not unhappy with him, I'm unhappy with ME. I am sometimes uphappy with things he does, but I am not unhappy with HIM, who he is, the person he is. But he assumes that I am unhappy with who he is at the core because he believed that his father was unhappy with who he is at the core. The same is true of me and my mother.
I also have a tendency to just run my mouth on autopilot, so my complaints, thoughts, observations, etc. just come out. I tend to make observations sound like complaints. He hears a complaint and feels he needs to DO something. Often times I'm not expecting or needing him to do anything other than listen. Mostly I just want someone to listen.
I always end up thinking that he doesn't talk to me because he doesn't want to talk to ME.
And again can you understand that he might have the same feeling, that you don't want to make love to him because of how you feel about him?
Yes I can totally see it, sitting here calmly and pondering. Honestly, I'd say that when I'm with him, I'm too focused on my own reactions, or maybe even what I anticipate or expect will happen, to be able to step back and put myself in his shoes. And I'd guess that the same thing happens to him.
I just don't know how to stop the emotion long enough to be even the slightest bit objective or empathetic.
FOr example: Wife: I just did the Laundry, cleaned the bathrooms, made the beds (the pauses to wait for WOA). Husband: Well, that was nice (Thinking, I really don't want that, I want to spend the evening snuggling on the couch).
So we end up with the wife doing the WRONG stuff to et WOA, and then she is disappointed when she does not get WOA.
And you get a husband who can't see his wife's actions of service as displays of her love and he continues to believe that she doesn't truly care for him causing him further frustration and resentment.
So I ask again, why? Why is making an effort to have a better sex life a bad thing? Why does it seem that if it isn't effortless it's second-rate?
I think that what happens is that men want to WIN you. When we are dating, we are putting on our best face to WIN your desire. If we win your desire, we continue dating, but if we can not win your desire, then we move onto someone that we can win.
For example: I will go out and move several tons of rock into my back yard to complete some landscaping, a project that I know my wife wanted done. So I have spend DAYS working on this project to make her castle a bit better, something that seems to be important to her. I am trying to win her desire. The repsonse I want is for her to openly WANT to do me. Any other response is a complete waste of time.
As Dr. Laura says, men want admiration and desire. It is just that simple. I know that I do not want anything else from my wife.
Willingness is ok as long as it is only temporary. Several experts I have read make it clear that in the long run, desire must return, or BOTH spouses will again began to resent each other. Willingness can not last.
Its just like dating, us guys date women to win their desire. If they don't desire, we move on. Why would marriage be any different?
He could never make his father happy any more than I could make my mother happy. So we got together believing that we were responsible for making the other happy, when the reality is that we can only make ourselves happy.
I know he has been extremely frustrated with me in the past because as he sees it, no matter what is going on in our lives, I'm unhappy with something, and I he assumes that I'm unhappy with him.
Thats some pretty strong insight into the nature of your relationship, sounds like you found a pretty good fit with you husband and both your relating styles.
I really don't know that I can do this. It is so painful. It just seems hopeless. I honestly don't think I have what it takes to really turn things around. I need help and I haven't been able to work that out. I feel like curling up into a ball.
I don't know if both of us can be happy. I just don't know if it's possible.
I need help fixing my marriage. I can't do it by myself.
cac and I both need help hearing each other. I know he doesn't always hear what I'm saying to him and I'm sure I don't always hear what he says. There is a lot of misinterpretation and miscommunications and putting words into each other's mouths.
I'd like to either tape record our talks about our R or do them in writing so everything that we say is documented. There has been a lot of "I didn't say that" or "I said that" on both our parts and it just comes down to he said/she said. We never really solve these things. One of us just sucks it up and throws it onto the resentment pile. Actually I think we both suck it up. Neither of us gets any satisfaction. I think it might help to be able to go back and say "here is what I (or you said). what did you hear or what did you mean?"
Usually it's me bringing up things that have upset me, like something cac did or said. I don't feel like I get any satisfaction, typically, so I leave the conversation/argument doubting whether my feelings have any validity. It makes me question whether or not it is worth it to voice any grievances. Sometimes I wish I could just suppress my emotions. Might make things easier. But, no, I have to go and *feel* things and upset the apple cart. Being sensitive really sucks sometimes.
