My wife and I have been married for 5 years and we have a 1 year old daughter. We dated for 4 years before we were married. The early days of being together were full of lots of sex. It tapered off though well before we were married, but to an acceptable frequency. After marriage it stayed about the same for the first year or so. From that point it started decreasing more. Once she was pregnant and since she had our daughter it has almost completely stopped.
I see from reading a few pages of threads that I am not alone in this. Much like infinitypuzzles in this thread. My wife loves me and does a lot for me. We have been seeing a counselor (psychologist) for about a year now and that has helped our marriage an awful lot. The bad part is he totally sees my wants and needs for intimacy and sex, he even tells her things to do and she is usually like "ok" but then when home nothing ever happens. When we talk about it she is usually like "I took that as a joke" or "I took that as a suggestion". She never takes anything he says regarding sex as a direct easy to follow item, always as something else. We have had sex 3 or 4 times in the last 13 months (since our daughter was born). Before that it was not exactly that much more often! Maybe 5-10 times a year. I realize that my sex drive has and probably always will be high, but my wife has NONE! She even says she has none. It isn't that she cant enjoy sex but that she has no desire for it. I just don't get the total lack of desire for something that is enjoyable. The last 2 time we had it, she said it was good and that it was because I was more "aggressive" and "initiating" the last 3 or 4 times I tried to initiate and be more aggressive I got none. So I am now at the point that I have lost all confidence and don't feel like doing any initiating or being "aggressive" as a result. She is always tired or else has a long list of things to do, none if which are me.
I love my wife more than imaginable and I find her totally attractive! Yet I feel as if my only options are to become a eunuch or find some drug that would kill my sex drive. I have asked her if she would he happy if we never had sex again and her response was something like "There is no way for me to know that" but it was not a "No" so it might as well have been "yes". She says "you can't fight biology" and blames the entire lack of desire on that.
I think that Pfizer Pharmaceuticals might have a different viewpoint. And so would just about every pharma and health professional, including mental health professionals.
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Yet I feel as if my only options are to become a eunuch or find some drug that would kill my sex drive.
Or perhaps you could ask her if she minded if you had sex with other women. Or perhaps you could divorce her. There are many options. Read some more of the threads.
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We have had sex 3 or 4 times in the last 13 months (since our daughter was born). Before that it was not exactly that much more often! Maybe 5-10 times a year.
Then why did you marry her? Why did you have a child with her? Why do you expect anything different now? Didn't you say in your first paragraph that, although it dropped off in frequency, it was an "acceptable frequency" and remained so for the first year or so of marriage? You definitely need to nail down what an "acceptable frequency" is so that you don't present her with some sort of moving target that basically tells her she is constantly inadequate.
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I just don't get the total lack of desire for something that is enjoyable.
And that is why you fail. She doesn't 'get' your persistent desire to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.
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She is always tired or else has a long list of things to do, none of which are me.
Maybe you could pitch in and help her, but here's the key: you must do so without ANY EXPECTATION THAT SHE WILL REWARD YOU WITH SEX. And don't make the statement, "I'll do x, y and z, if you have sex with me." This kind of quid pro quo will kill and desire she might have for you. Just pitch in because it's the right thing to do, not to get something in return.
I think that Pfizer Pharmaceuticals might have a different viewpoint. And so would just about every pharma and health professional, including mental health professionals.
I agree to a point for sure! So are there any recommendations on things we could try?
Originally Posted By: hairdog
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Yet I feel as if my only options are to become a eunuch or find some drug that would kill my sex drive.
Or perhaps you could ask her if she minded if you had sex with other women. Or perhaps you could divorce her. There are many options. Read some more of the threads.
She would def mind if I had sex with anyone but her. I would too. I have no interest in divorce for us. I want to avoid her ever possibly having any interest too!
Originally Posted By: hairdog
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We have had sex 3 or 4 times in the last 13 months (since our daughter was born). Before that it was not exactly that much more often! Maybe 5-10 times a year.
Then why did you marry her? Why did you have a child with her? Why do you expect anything different now? Didn't you say in your first paragraph that, although it dropped off in frequency, it was an "acceptable frequency" and remained so for the first year or so of marriage? You definitely need to nail down what an "acceptable frequency" is so that you don't present her with some sort of moving target that basically tells her she is constantly inadequate.
I married her because I love her. She married me for the same reason. We had a child because we felt it was time to do so (I actually wanted children as long as I can recall). I don't expect anything different now than it was a year afer we got married. But it IS different I am all for us nailing down what is "acceptable". For me it is almost anything more than the last 2 years (more than once a month?), for her it is never until she might one day want it?
Originally Posted By: hairdog
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I just don't get the total lack of desire for something that is enjoyable.
And that is why you fail. She doesn't 'get' your persistent desire to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.
She says she does get it and that I am not abnormal
Originally Posted By: hairdog
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She is always tired or else has a long list of things to do, none of which are me.
Maybe you could pitch in and help her, but here's the key: you must do so without ANY EXPECTATION THAT SHE WILL REWARD YOU WITH SEX. And don't make the statement, "I'll do x, y and z, if you have sex with me." This kind of quid pro quo will kill and desire she might have for you. Just pitch in because it's the right thing to do, not to get something in return.
In the past I would have def been the QPQ type. Now I realize it is better to give than receive but that doesn't make it easy to never get any. I am the stay at home parent and I do a lot more around the house than I used to when we both worked full time. She still does quite a bit as well. I don't expect sex to be a reward, a "in return", or anything other than 2 people who love each other showing it.
Originally Posted By: hairdog
You might want to prepare for a slow season.
I am already IN the slow season so I guess there is little else I can do to prepare
Why on earth would your W think the counsellor was joking, or that his suggestions can be left to one side? She is in deep denial over this. Many women lose their sex drive after the birth of a child. By 13 months there really are no more hormonal excuses, so it is now habit and psychology that are stopping her. It is vitally important that she get back on the horse.
I suggest you print out the following and give it to her Dear Mrs Proxac,
Your husband has posted on an excellent forum for people who feel they are not getting enough physical affection and sex in their marriage. This forum includes both men and women ALL of whom are looking to save their marriages not fishing for new partners. Some are low drive women, some are high drive women, some are low drive men (not many) and some are high drive men.
Your marriage is in danger. Is that what you want for your daughter?
I suggest you pitch in and look at the reason you think it is OK for you to starve your husband of something he finds NECESSARY in order to feel happy in his marriage. Would it be OK for him to starve you? If you feel like he is starving you of something then tell him what it is - he has had the courtesy to tell you what he feels starved of. If you don't feel starved then he is doing a good job as a husband, so ask yourself if you are doing a good job as a wife.
Don't you dare turn around and say "oh I just don't feel like it" or "I don't have any desire". Part of loving someone is doing things for them that are out of your comfort zone. He needs you to do this for him, otherwise your marriage will end up on the rocks.
Many low drive women have posted on here and many have found that by just getting on with it they rediscover their old levels of desire. This is not a take or leave it part of the marriage. This is ESSENTIAL.
If you wish to join us here then you would be very welcome.
Fran
A wife who has been both high and low drive during her 16 year marriage so knows the feeling from both sides
If she doesn't believe I exist then get her on this forum. You have nothing to lose by doing so and there are examples of people here who have been helped hugely by their partners joining them on this forum. You have not posted anything on here that she doesn't already know. And you have had nothing but positive and nice things to say about her except for feeling she is short-changing you in the sex department.
Lots of luck
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
PROxac When we talk about it she is usually like "I took that as a joke" or "I took that as a suggestion". When she said a “joke” that is purely ignoring the truth on her part, just another version of skirting the truth. She knows it wasn’t a joke. I cam understand the suggestion part.
If your W has an income, make her pay for half of the C sessions. People that pay out of their own pocket, listen better, do more, and are more involved. If your sessions are 3rd. party pay, then no one has to do anything. The financial motivation isn’t there. Both parties can sit on the ball till the clock runs out.
I realize that my sex drive has and probably always will be high The first thing I want you to change, is the thought that your SD is high. Thinking that way leads to you accepting less and less.
I want you to think your SD is normal and I want you to think being normal Is good.
The people on the forum have discussed male/female dynamics several times. Several of the women have said men over compensating and doing things to please them, above and beyond what is considered normal, actually lowered their SD. So by giving into your W’s limited SD, you are contributing to her low SD.
Repeat “My SD is normal and that is a good thing.”
So I am now at the point that I have lost all confidence and don't feel like doing any initiating or being "aggressive" as a result. Join the club that many of us have been in. Staying in the “lost confidence” state can lead to a D.
One poster “Chocolateeyes” was in that state for many years. His W wanted him to chase her, but not catch her. He quit chasing (pursuing) and she found someone else to have an affair with.
It might sound strange for a W that doesn’t like sex with her H, to find an OM to have an affair with. It happens a lot. It’s called W likes sex but not with her H. Believe me, it is a common feeling and validated by a couple of women posting on this and other web sites.
One woman said she had the perfect H, a perfect family, a perfect job, but she hated having sex with her H. She did have sex with her H but no desire or pleasure. She had the hots for some guy at work.
Same type of story for several men on another forum. They had the perfect life and work situation but couldn’t get it up when with the W. They could with the girlfriend.
What I want you to consider is don’t think all gender roles are rigid, men do this and women do that.
I feel as if my only options are to become a eunuch or find some drug that would kill my sex drive. Get off that train PROxac. Bring how you feel up in counseling. BYW, several men and some women wanted to take a pill to lower their SD. Bad thinking and bad move because once the SD is gone, so are other good parts of the M.
I have asked her if she would he happy if we never had sex again and her response was something like "There is no way for me to know that" Sounds like my W. BTDT.
That is just more lazy and non-committal talk. I bet if you were to say you were separating from her and going to live in your own house across town she would find an answer. I see a good percentage of the LD partners finding what they are willing to do after someone walks out or is about to walk out.
The extreme example was one poster (MJontheMend ) ended the M and told her H to leave. He left but didn’t mind the separation that much till she started to date, and then he was willing to do anything to get her back. Sorry too little, too late. Cadesmom34 was another poster that didn’t see the value or importance of sex in a M till her H gave her the speech. They worked things out and now are on the way to having a great M.
PROxac When we talk about it she is usually like "I took that as a joke" or "I took that as a suggestion". When she said a “joke” that is purely ignoring the truth on her part, just another version of skirting the truth. She knows it wasn’t a joke. I cam understand the suggestion part.
If your W has an income, make her pay for half of the C sessions. People that pay out of their own pocket, listen better, do more, and are more involved. If your sessions are 3rd. party pay, then no one has to do anything. The financial motivation isn’t there. Both parties can sit on the ball till the clock runs out.
I realize that my sex drive has and probably always will be high The first thing I want you to change, is the thought that your SD is high. Thinking that way leads to you accepting less and less.
I want you to think your SD is normal and I want you to think being normal Is good.
The people on the forum have discussed male/female dynamics several times. Several of the women have said men over compensating and doing things to please them, above and beyond what is considered normal, actually lowered their SD. So by giving into your W’s limited SD, you are contributing to her low SD.
Repeat “My SD is normal and that is a good thing.”
So I am now at the point that I have lost all confidence and don't feel like doing any initiating or being "aggressive" as a result. Join the club that many of us have been in. Staying in the “lost confidence” state can lead to a D.
One poster “Chocolateeyes” was in that state for many years. His W wanted him to chase her, but not catch her. He quit chasing (pursuing) and she found someone else to have an affair with.
It might sound strange for a W that doesn’t like sex with her H, to find an OM to have an affair with. It happens a lot. It’s called W likes sex but not with her H. Believe me, it is a common feeling and validated by a couple of women posting on this and other web sites.
One woman said she had the perfect H, a perfect family, a perfect job, but she hated having sex with her H. She did have sex with her H but no desire or pleasure. She had the hots for some guy at work.
Same type of story for several men on another forum. They had the perfect life and work situation but couldn’t get it up when with the W. They could with the girlfriend.
What I want you to consider is don’t think all gender roles are rigid, men do this and women do that.
I feel as if my only options are to become a eunuch or find some drug that would kill my sex drive. Get off that train PROxac. Bring how you feel up in counseling. BYW, several men and some women wanted to take a pill to lower their SD. Bad thinking and bad move because once the SD is gone, so are other good parts of the M.
I have asked her if she would he happy if we never had sex again and her response was something like "There is no way for me to know that" Sounds like my W. BTDT.
That is just more lazy and non-committal talk. I bet if you were to say you were separating from her and going to live in your own house across town she would find an answer. I see a good percentage of the LD partners finding what they are willing to do after someone walks out or is about to walk out.
The extreme example was one poster (MJontheMend ) ended the M and told her H to leave. He left but didn’t mind the separation that much till she started to date, and then he was willing to do anything to get her back. Sorry too little, too late. Cadesmom34 was another poster that didn’t see the value or importance of sex in a M till her H gave her the speech. They worked things out and now are on the way to having a great M.
The last 2 time we had it, she said it was good and that it was because I was more "aggressive" and "initiating" the last 3 or 4 times I tried to initiate and be more aggressive I got none. The changing moods and moving target. It is a common event. Someone wants sex to be new/different most of the time. You try to mix up things. Sometimes you get it right, Sometimes she thinks it is all wrong.
Ask her why this is and tell her you think it is unfair for for her to keep moving the target!
A wife who has been both high and low drive during her 16 year marriage so knows the feeling from both sides [/b]
What do you think attributed to being on both ends of the spectrum? I have been trying to figure this out.. I can't decide if it's really just cyclical or ? It's driving me crazy much less what it is doing to H. I can go a few weeks thinking I never want sex again and then for a few weeks I can't seem to get enough! It's been this way through 22 years of marriage, actually together 27. But the lows are bad and drive me just as crazy as H and I am not sure how to change it
Love at first sight is easy to understand; it's when two people have been looking at each other for a lifetime that it becomes a miracle. (Amy Bloom)
I'm not really sure and it is pretty crazy making. I think it is cyclical to a certain extent, all of us feel hornier mid-month. Some of the HD men post here to say that that is the only time they get any, so even LD women feel hornier then. I would say it is a combination of that and of a push-me pull-you dynamic. Like you want more of what you can't have and less of what you can have. Lately I have found that a combination of being very open about how I am feeling and being sure to make it so my H doesn't take it personally and being willing to step up to the plate when I am not in the mood works pretty well. When I'm not really in the mood I am open about that too and just let H know that I am more than willing to give him a good time - no strings.
Even I have faked orgasm. But that has been a very recent development and definitely not a step to be taken lightly. It is something I am very thankful I never got in the habit of doing when I was young. My sister endured a 15 year R with a man who never made her O because she fell into the trap of faking early on to please him.
The reason I have done it (once) recently was because I felt I was just genuinely all O'd out (having had about a week straight of hot monkey sex) and it was just a kind of empathic reaction to his O. Like when you laugh at a joke you don't get because everyone else is laughing.
I think the only cure is acceptance, acceptance that some days you're in the mood and some days you're not. And that goes for both partners. Accept your own feelings, accept their feelings and don't take it personally.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
"Being able to step up to the plate even when you're not in the mood"... is what it means to act like a thinking spouse. Women who wait for their hormones or gift to put them in the mood are setting themselves up for failure in marriage.
Having the right attitude to get started and play along will get you in the mood, if your spouse is treating you with affection. And you are going to get much affection if you don't accept affection. By affection, I am referring to real feels of affection that are not sexual, the kind the women claim they want.
Because men are biologically wired to arouse more easily and serve women in heat, too many women only want to operate when they are in heat, and treat their husbands like an appliance. He has to tell her up front that he is not going to settle for cheap sex. What do you have to lose, if you are only getting mediocre sex 5 times a year? Anyone who has been to zero can tell you, there isn't any difference between zero, five, and ten.
She says "you can't fight biology" and blames the entire lack of desire on that.
This has been kicking around in my head all day, and probably gets the award for "Stupidest Thing I've Heard All Week".
Of COURSE you can fight biology!!! Anyone who has ever gone on a diet is fighting biology. Anyone who has ever taken a fever-reducing drug or antibiotic or other medications too numerous to mention is fighting biology. Or, from another standpoint, anyone who has ever controlled their temper even though they were seeing red and wanted blood on the floor is fighting biology. Every bottle of hair dye ever sold and every syringe of botox ever injected, every wrinkle cream, etc.... all desperate attempts to fight biology. (If anybody ever figured out how to erase stretch marks or crow's feet or grow back hair on balding heads by modifying one's mental processes or behavior, the majority of people would be willing to devote massive blocks of time to learning those techniques until they succeeded .... why does one's sexuality seem so much less important?)
We fight and override and attempt to modify our "natural" biological instincts or functions constantly for what we consider to be a greater good.
So -- especially when people are aware of how much this particular function of "biology" means to their mate -- I really wish they would quit using this lamest of excuses ...
Edited to add: The angst is directed at people (male or female) who blame their "biology" and use that as a shield to hide behind, making no efforts to change. People who struggle to reclaim their sexual desire and/or function or, in its continuing absence, do all they can to meet their loved one's needs as well as possible with generosity and integrity .... they have my utmost respect.
Last edited by Kettricken; 08/07/0706:34 AM.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
You asked what you could do and personally I think telling your W to join this forum would be an excellent idea. If you want to keep this as a place to vent or talk about your situation and have it as somewhere just for you then buy her a copy of the SSM book.
Reading about how both men and women feel and behave is a real eye opener.
Don't ignore this problem because you love your wife or 20 years from now you could easily be one of the divorce statistics.
