People have been mentioning the WRONG reasons to marry, and I know that I have some of the wrong reasons. But I was trying to figure out what are the right reasons to marry, assuming that we throw out desire and throw out "because they love me". Why should a Deida man marry?
For you, didn't you at least partially answer your own question over on Crazy Eddie's thread:
One of the reasons I married my wife is because she was smart and hot. She's still smart.
Does your question have a point or are you trying to find ANOTHER reason why you have been short-changed and why there is no point for you to work on yourself or the marriage?
No, actually I am trying to figure out what makes a good marriage. From all this stuff that we talk about on Mr. Nice Guys and how we often marry someone because the love us, and maybe not for any real good reasons beyond that. So if we throw out the because they love us and throw out sex and desire, what exactly would a Deida man want in a woman? Beyond that, I wonder if a true Deida man should even marry. So if I was single and applied Deida principals, what would I be looking for in a women to marry, or maybe I should NOT marry. This might help to explain where maybe I went wrong the first time.
What do you care about why a "Dieda" man would marry? You are not any where close to a Dieda man and from what I can tell you have no interest in becoming a Dieda man.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Let’s start off with exactly what is a “true Dieda man?” Is there such an animal, at least in the way I think you are thinking? If you take out the fact that the woman loves the man, take out sex, I assume that still leaves the possibility that the man loves the woman, right? Do you think that could be a significant reason why many men marry?
If a man does not love a woman, then I don’t think he should marry, no matter what the obligations are that he may otherwise feel. I speak from experience on this point. At this point in my life, were I to divorce, I would have to meet someone pretty amazing for me to get remarried. Otherwise I don’t see much reason to.
As for where you went wrong, if you really want the answer to this, then give me a little more information on you. I asked you some questions a while back to which you never responded. Personally, I think you have a lot of FOO issues to address if you want to truly know “where you went wrong.” It is simply NOT possible for a healthy functioning person to become attracted to someone with your wife’s background unless that person has complimentary FOO issues. Your wife filled a need (or needs) in you. What were those needs and why did you have them to begin with? What was modeled to you to make you attracted to someone who would meet those particular needs?
I personally think there is a lot of 'parenting' going on between CeMar and his Mrs. From the info he has given on her, she is a nurturer. I believe she is also a teacher, so she spends a good deal of time 'nurturing' at work.
Given that CeMar says his family was 'normal' and 'happy,' I would guess that most, if not all his needs, were always met. Sometimes one of the hardest things to learn coming out of such a family is how one is supposed to meet their own needs.
So these two people found one another, and at first, it probably seemed like a perfect match. But a woman who marries a man she nurtures is going to kill her own sex drive, for the sexual relationship is going to begin to feel incestuous to her. The man will become baffled because 'it never seemed to be a problem before.' He has a need, she needs to fill it (at least to him), and this is exactly why he married her. All she understands is that her sex drive has dried up, and all he wants from her is sex...
This is not a give/take relationship, not a 50/50 R between a man and a woman. It is that whole Freudian thing... and it is way more common than many realize.
My xH and I ran into exactly this thing. It is very hard to fix.... this is evident in CeMar's seeming inability to grasp what it is people are telling him. He keeps wondering what he has done 'wrong.' He has not done anything wrong, per se. There isn't something here that has to be 'fixed.' It is a dynamic that has to be changed... IF he wants a vibrant sex life with his wife, once again.
And that is just the beginning, really. But this is where my shrink started with my xH and I, to get us on the same page of understanding. Both spouses have to be aware of the funky dynamic THEY BOTH CREATED to be able to start to change it.
I think they are both going to need some help doing this... and I think CeMar, since he is the one aware of the problem, is going to have to be the one to take charge, rattle the cage, and get this process started.
Because even a great cake tastes better with icing. OTOH, you can't really hide the fact that a cake tastes cr*ppy by covering it with icing and if a cake is all crumbling and falling apart, you really can't count on the icing to hold it together. I think a Deida man would marry if he found a woman who complemented him rather than completing him. So, maybe more like the ice cream served with the cake? Like, he'd be thinking "It's time for dessert. Let me cut a nice piece of "me" cake. What happened to that ice cream that tasted so good with "me" cake the other night? Oh yeah, she's back at her own refridgerator. I better give her a call and see if she can come over." and then eventually it seems like it would just be easier to make room for her in your own fridge since you're eating her every night anyways.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Your nurturing/being nurtured hypothesis makes perfect sense to me. Parentification of kids will have this result. CeMar’s sitch sounds a little like Mojo’s except CeMar is the HD person. He seems a little spoiled in some ways and naïve in what he expects from a marriage. That makes sense with a family “Nothing unusual, maybe even BORING because we did not have many problems.”
His wife would have to rise up and nurture the younger kids and her mother. So CeMar was a natural fit, plus had the added benefit of stability and financial security. But she was conditioned and trained under stress and the feeling of being engulfed by events. It also makes sense to me that her only relief was to escape that emotional boiling pot, so detaching from her feelings seems a reasonable outcome.
CeMar and his wife are STILL the perfect fit, IMO. CeMar needs to learn reality and how to put himself in the emotions and mindset of his wife and learn to nurture others. She needs to learn to stop detaching and pushing away that which she really wants - security, compassion, safety, being nurtured herself.
Neither did anything wrong but both carry into the marriage how they were trained. You are exactly right in that both need to understand their part of the dynamic in order to make a change. So CeMar, when are you going to bring up, even demand, the need for counseling with your wife?
Neither did anything wrong but both carry into the marriage how they were trained. You are exactly right in that both need to understand their part of the dynamic in order to make a change. So CeMar, when are you going to bring up, even demand, the need for counseling with your wife?
My guess is, in about six years, when he loses his fear of divorcing and subjecting his kids to a broken home. If you're going to divorce her anyway, you can demand anything you damn well please and let her split if she doesn't like it.
Or maybe sooner, if something on this board fortuitously clicks in his mind.
Originally Posted By: Corri
So these two people found one another, and at first, it probably seemed like a perfect match. But a woman who marries a man she nurtures is going to kill her own sex drive, for the sexual relationship is going to begin to feel incestuous to her. The man will become baffled because 'it never seemed to be a problem before.' He has a need, she needs to fill it (at least to him), and this is exactly why he married her. All she understands is that her sex drive has dried up, and all he wants from her is sex...
I wonder why this doesn't kill the man's sex drive. Are men just naturally "sick motherf*ckers" that don't mind a little pseudo-incest? Too much testosterone for this to be enough to override the sex drive?
And how much nurturing is too much for a woman? One of the main reasons I have for marrying to begin with is that I like a certain amount of nurturing. Actually, I like a lot of nurturing, when you get right down to it.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
