Yes, a long term relationship is good for many of the same reasons, and under the same conditions, that a long term friendship is good. Only more so.
I would have agreed with you a year ago. Now I disagree. The length of a relationship doesn't reflect its quality. For instance, most of us have experienced a long term relationship that totally s*cked with a relative. In seventh grade I walked to school EVERY day with a girl who lobbed snowballs at my head etc. I think what you are considering is the value of long term shared memories or experiences. Maybe I'm just in a nihilistic state of being at the moment but IMO this is kind of like putting too much value on the boxes full of snapshots stored in your closet. You really only take them out and look at them maybe once a year but still you feel like you would save them first if you had a fire. Why is this? Is it like my son was never really 2 years old and I never really was his mother if I can't look at a picture to remind me or turn to his father and say "Remember when..." Is the purpose served by a LTR in the long run the same purpose served by an attic. Is it a place to store things no longer valued except for reasons of sentiment? The honeymoon is long over but the album in which the tickets, flowers and photos are pressed remains on the shelf much longer as evidence of dreams unrealized.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
The length of a relationship doesn't reflect its quality.
I would agree that length does not guarantee quality. However for me ALL of my long term friends are quality friends. I tend not to become friends with people who are not a positive influence in my life. Now I have some more recent friends that are every bit as good as my "old" friends but there is something special about the friends that shared some important parts of my life. it doesn't diminish the new friends at all; there's just something nice about the friends that went THROUGH things with me.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
What other way would there be to have a good relationship???
That was your 2BX's problem - he couldn't play fair and have fun!
Right and my problem was that I tolerated it. So, for me it is important to work on my intolerance muscle - lol . Probably that is why I am not eager to jump into any sort of LTR. I actually have this kind of sick desire that one of the guys I date will break one of the rules in that book LP made me read so I can be like "Sorry. Foul play. Next!" However, they're all pretty gentlemanly so far so mostly I just concentrate on having fun.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Hmmm. Interesting question, Mo. Being single myself, right now... and not planning in any regard to have more children, the only persuasive reasons I can think of right now to marry are more along the lines of a business arrangement... it's financially beneficial for both parties to have one home, shared insurance, and inheritance rights. Though in every instance, there are ways around those issues.
Emotionally, I see no benefit whatsoever in being married, as opposed to being in a LTR by choice. Actually, I see marriage, in many senses, as a detriment, if you are not with someone who is 'relationship' aware, as many people on this board are.
Were I to find that person, I would consider marriage again. But it wouldn't be for reasons of validation, or to keep from living or being alone in old age, or even for the business reasons I've listed.
Its common in parts of the Arab world....middle-eastern and eastern cultures. Also in some cultures that we would call "primative". then there were the Mormons...
Cac4, I have Mormon/LDS neighbors. I service the LDS copier. Zero polygamous.
I have done some forum chatting with college teachers that are Muslim. According to what I am told, a low percentage are polygamous. It is usally the people that are still tribal like, and like you say primative.
Lou, I'm not arguing for or against any one cultural norm. I'm just saying, that's what it is: a concept created and perpetuated by humans...particularly those of our western culture. long term, permanent monogamy isn't necessarily the "one true/pure state of being" to which all humans should aspire. At least, there are others that don't think so, and their societies aren't set up that way...seems to work for them. Mormons used to be polygamous. over 100 years ago. yeah, I know they denounced the practice...100 years ago (so that utah could become a state). There are still "fundamentalist" sects that maintain the practice, though.
Osama's old man was one of the very richest men in Saudi Arabia (and hence, "the world"), and the family still has big money interests all over the world. He (they) aren't just a bunch of country bumpkins, like me. I doubt its nearly as "rare" as your friend implies.
Well, some cultures have inheritance that passes from a man to his sister's children. The cultural stability is maintained within the genetic family of origin rather than through the sexual pair bond. I think I actually read that if you consider human beings as an animal species we are middle of the road in terms of polygamy/ monogamy. Other species, a lot of birds for example, pair-bond much more strongly. There's actually a lot of natural variation on this trait amongst primates. Gorillas, chimpanzees and bonobos all function very differently. I think bonobos have sex all the time with everyone and never mate excusively. It's like a handshake in their society.
Also, let's face it, pair-bonding has a lot to do with social hierarchy. I was reading the Savage Love column recently and there was a guy who wrote in saying that he was strongly sexually attracted to heavy-set trailer trash looking women but he was married to a thin fit woman. He felt like he couldn't marry the kind of woman he wanted to have sex with but he didn't want to have sex with the woman to whom he was married.
IMO, since women are more strongly given the assignment by our culture to choose mates for purposes of pair-bonding over sex, more women end up being LD in their relationships. I think a good part of the reason that I am HD is that my FOO dynamics for reasons both good and bad were such that I have always been inclined to choose men for sexual reasons over pair-bonding reasons. Put on some leather and play a guitar if you want to get me into bed. I don't care about your credit rating, I've got my own to worry about, but the flowers you brought will make me smile and want to bake you a cake.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Emotionally, I see no benefit whatsoever in being married, as opposed to being in a LTR by choice. Actually, I see marriage, in many senses, as a detriment, if you are not with someone who is 'relationship' aware, as many people on this board are.
Right. Even relationship aware people can't avoid fusion. Maybe they can recognize it better but it's impossible to avoid completely. I mean is everybody on this BB completely honest with everyone else on this BB or do we sometimes say or not say things just to be nice- like normal friendly human beings who like each other and want to maintain relationships- lol . I think trying to avoid fusion is like trying to avoid weight gain. Difficult under any circumstances and simultaneously discouraged and encouraged in myriad confusing ways by our culture. Once again, I come back around to the thought that the only way to gauge how you are functioning in a relationship is to ask yourself "Am I playing fair?" and "Am I having fun?" I will be brutally honest and say that I think most of the folks on this BB spend too much time worrying about the first question and not enough time worrying about the second. I mean consider the possiblity of, for instance, HD saying to MsHD "It's really not much fun to not have sex."
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Even relationship aware people can't avoid fusion. ...I think trying to avoid fusion is like trying to avoid weight gain.
I'm not sure if I understand your definition of fusion. I would see fusion at the far end of the spectrum of connectedness. A connection between a couple is a good thing. Fusion sounds like an extreme. So my analogy would be that connectedness is like weight gain and fusion is like morbid obesity.
In my parent's marriage my mom said that what got them through the financially difficult years is that one of them always managed to stay up while the other was down. So if they were "fused" wouldn't they have fed off the negative? Instead their connection allowed them to balance each other out.
Again I guess I would say that being connected is part of a long term relationship/marriage and is a very good part of it. But being fused seems like you're getting into more dangerous territory.
Just some initial thoughts because I am not sure I really understand the concept anyway. I still haven't gotten around to reading Schnarck and honestly, almost 2 years later, I still feel burned out on relationship books!!
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
In my parent's marriage my mom said that what got them through the financially difficult years is that one of them always managed to stay up while the other was down.
Interestingly that you should mention this fearless because that is exactly what H and I have said to the MC on several occasions, thinking it was a "good thing" when in fact, it is a bad thing because MC said (and I am quoting here) that if one is up and one is down, you never have a chance to really connect and understand the other person because you are always in two different places in your R.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Just got done reading your last two threads and I must say such good changes. But I am a little lost one the monkey/bunny thing can you please explain what exactly that is? Got to say I really love your new view points and out looks on things.
I doubt its nearly as "rare" as your friend implies.