Current sitch =========== Living in 2 different bedrooms for past 2 mos Light conversation, friendly, nothing romantic Is very angry about how I never responded to her requests to work on our relationship (last conversation was about 4 yrs ago) I am attending marriage counseling on my own, trying to improve myself and learn how to deal with this She keeps talking separation, wants to buy a condo and try things out, it is just a matter of weeks in my mind I have just about had it. Where do I go from here? How do I stay patient? I want to stay married to her, I love her.
Recent Background ================ We moved out of state a year ago for my career (20 years with the same company) She left a part time job She was definitely open to the move I urged her to get a job, start her career She accomplished this mid-March 07 and absolutely loves it, loves the fact she is now using her degree Issues started almost immediately I stopped hearing from her, the phone calls, texts, etc that I was used to getting stopped I started questioning things, asked how do you feel about me (probably a mistake) She freaked, got pissed, not the response of ... of course I love you, silly .... that I expected After a couple conversations like that, she moved into a different bedroom and said nothing other than I need time and space She stopped wearing her wedding ring a few weeks ago (she did not feel right wearing it since she wants to get separated) Luckily I did enough reading, got counseling and stabilized my responses (sounds like I am pretty close to the recommendation from DBing on MLCers) But literally nothing has changed in 3-4 mos ... she has built up anger, sees me as controlling, selfish, etc (see below) She says she deserves someone that will love and adore her (I have said I can and want to be that person) I do not have any evidence of another person but there is at least one person at work that could at least be an emotional distraction if nothing else. She has made claims I never heard before (yes, it was shocking and hurtful) ... she was planning on divorcing me but was waiting for the confidence (and resources I guess) She says we have so much baggage and brings up things from before our marriage, during the 1st year (you were not really ready to get married, you used to go out with your friends and talk to girls ... keep in mind this was 19 years ago!) She did admit that she feels very guilty, selfish and is not sure how she is going to tell the kids
Past Background ============== Been together for 2/3 of our lives, married for 19 yrs after HS and college together Raised 3 kids, 2 still in HS, she stayed at home most of that time She had brought up that we need to work on our relationship several times over the years ... she read books and I did not ... I tried to get activities to do together ... she claims now that she did everything she could think of, short of leaving She was a good wife ... nice, a very good person, faithful, exercised and attractive, took great care of the house, family I was the typical husband, supported my family, hung out with everyone, stayed in great shape but somewhat selfish, impatient at times, critical at times, controlling I guess(I never thought of myself as controlling but she brought this up recently) I spent a lot of time at work for the first half, and doing my sporting activities the last half of our marriage But I tried to strike a balance, dinner with the family, looking for activities together, taking walks and hanging out, went to church together, attended kids sporting events together, etc. Sex was always good, up until the week she moved out of our room! We had a lot of great, fun times ... vacations, working on houses together, etc. I always thought of myself as fun loving I have a great relationship with my kids, am a great dad I do not think you could say our relationship was great, but it was good, no worse than mediocre We definitely could have used some work but I really thought we were going down this path ... we were taking walks together 2 to 3 times per week, would see movies, went out to dinner, etc. What and the heck happened???
Now What? ========= I am lost. I never realized how much she meant to me. I love her and want to be with her. I thought things were getting better and then BOOM, she stops talking to me, closes up, moves out of the bedroom and wants to move out of the house.
Questions ======== Is this MLC? Will she change if she moves out? Is there really a chance we will be together again? I have been showing her that I can change ... helping more around the house, spending a lot less time on me, taking my faith more seriously, showing her support for her work, but not acting needy or clingy ... is this the right approach? Or should I start going out with friends, make her wonder if I will be here if she comes back, be cold and emotionless like she is? Should I still wear my wedding ring (she is not wearing hers)? She takes everything as either controlling or negative in some way ... I started doing the checkbook, doing more things with the kids ... even trying and liking her meatloaf was taken as negative ... how do I respond to this? Do I call her when I go out of town (like I used to)? Do I give her hugs hello/goodbye? Do I initiate conversation or wait for her? What about after she moves out ... she has talked about still doing the grocery shopping, coming home to cook dinner a few times a week ... should I allow this or make it difficult for her? Do I help her buy a condo or force her to rent?
I am so confused. What and the heck happened to my wife?
She sounds like a candidate. Your first step is to read all the MLC resourses on this board. Smurf has them in one place, and there are other links, too. Read what Snodderly has to say. While reading, see if you can identify any of the behaviors associated with MLC. No MLCer has every symptom, and all MLCs are different. Read the first chapter of DR, then buy the book. The first chapter is here on the board. If it is MLC, you're in a storm you just have to ride out. You can't fix it. MLCers tend not to respond to rational thought.
Don't freak out. Back off and take care of yourself. If this is MLC, it's going to be a waiting game. My attorney calls it 'emotional chicken.'
I'm sorry your circumstances bring you here, but if you have to go through this, this is a good place to be.
David
The fires of true love can never be quenched, because the source of its flame is God Himself! - Shulamith
Sorry you find your self here, but David is right it's a good place.
Is it MLC? Honestly, who knows. What helps me is to treat my H like he is in MLC b/c I have more compassion for him that way. My H still lives at home and I have been encouraged to keep it this way b/c it's harder on me with him here, but harder on the M if he's gone. Of course he could up and go anytime and I'd have no control over that. Then you read and post and do the best you can. Will she change? Hasn't she already?
Actions speak louder than words on the issue of change. Just remember you have to do for YOU (not in a selfish way, but be the Man you want to be), any changes for her won't last anyway. This isn't an either or as far as friends are concerned. You can go out and GAL as well as the actions you use to show your changes. Be the man she fell lin love with, but not in a needy way.
If you want to start convos go ahead. Keep it light and NO R/M talk unless she brings it up and even then if it's not a good time for you ask to talk about it later. Give yourself some time and space from this insanity. You need it to take care of yourself and your kids. I don't care that they're not little it still wreaks havoc on them.
I still wear my ring, no plans to take it off right now. H doesn't, but never has. I should add though that he would have taken it off. Personal choice.
Since she see's everything as "controlling" you could back off a little. Do things with the kids. It's hard to detach from them , but you need to learn not to react to her stuff. For example, for years when my H got angry about anything I would start to clean the house or do something I thought would make him happy. Now, if he's angry or withdrawn, I figure he's got a mouth and can speak to what he wants to say. When I find myself "reacting" to him to make him happy, I STOP. I go for a walk or just do something else, even if it means just sitting.
As far as hugs go, if she's willing I say go for it. I'm not the most experienced one on this bb and I know others will have good advice for you. It's hard and it sux and it's the ride to hell. It's a learn as you go program. Glad you have a C, I use a DB coach and it's been really helpful for me.
Thanks to both of you Grace (Rumi) & Tamashii. Your words are very helpful. I'm trying to just chill out and be cool. She feels she has taken big steps to get where she is and would hate to go back to us and then if it is not good, she would never have known if taking it to the full separation would have shown her more. The whole thing sux, is not fair, will rip apart our family when all she has to do is just go to a counselor and work on us together (now that I am finally ready). But I was day late and a dollar short (her words). I somehow have to dig deep, be patient, not do anything stupid (it is hard to survive without a partner), be supportive to this person. She just acts like it was so bad with so many things wrong....we had a decent relationship, enjoyed each other, did things together....how do you just throw this away and act like it was nothing? Sheesh...
My W said the same things to me. I was a day late and a dollar short. We were walking on egg shells living in the same house the way the R was going. She eventually moved out. She actually bought her own house. She expected me to help buy furniture for the kids in her house. I told her my half of the furniture was already in our home. I refused to help her pay for anything as far as the separation goes. You should not help her move out. Let that be her burden...if it comes to that.
Most people on this board will tell you it's easier to deal with them as long as they are still in the house. That may work for most, but it didn't for me. There was so much tension as long as she was there, it was killing me. She moved out over a year ago, and believe it or not, we are making progress in resolving issues. I truly believe that her moving out made a difference for both of us.
I stopped calling her when I went out of town. There was no need to communicate with her unless it involved the children. I also eventually took my ring off. But it took a long time. She had already had hers off for about 8 months at that point. I honestly did not feel married anymore.
I eventually dropped the rope. I let her go. I was prepared to deal with the consequences, whether it was to reconcile or divorce. As much as I didn't want it, I had to prepare myself.
Your W is going to do what she feels she needs to do at this point in her life. Anything you suggest will be considered negative. The more you pull, the more she will push away. Find a way to let her have her space, as she requested. You have a long ride ahead of you. Strap on your seat belt.
PoohBear
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
Well I think you summarised my marriage and relationship.
It was also the carear change and moving away that I first noticed changes in my wife. Phone calls, texts and eMail stopped or got short and to the point. I did not feel the love, so I questioned. Thats when we get the ILYBNILWY speach.
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said nothing other than I need time and space
Yep! had that one as well! This is where we hold out for hope, which doesn't materialise.
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Questions ======== Is this MLC?
Certainly seems to be the pattern, the only thing that worries me is you saying "She had brought up that we need to work on our relationship several times over the years". I did not have the luxury of knowing that anything was wrong in our marriage, she just wanted out, and to do things before she reached 50.
Will she change if she moves out? Is there really a chance we will be together again?
Unfortunatley fortune telling is not my forte.
I have been showing her that I can change ... helping more around the house, spending a lot less time on me, taking my faith more seriously, showing her support for her work, but not acting needy or clingy ... is this the right approach?
We start jumping through hoops, in the hope, when all they want is for us to be ourselves and let them go.
Or should I start going out with friends, make her wonder if I will be here if she comes back, be cold and emotionless like she is?
Cold and Emotionless - No! GAL and going out with friends - Yes!
Should I still wear my wedding ring (she is not wearing hers)?
All I will say is you will know when it is right to remove your wedding ring, but do not remove it just as a sign or subliminal message to her.
She takes everything as either controlling or negative in some way ... I started doing the checkbook, doing more things with the kids ... even trying and liking her meatloaf was taken as negative ... how do I respond to this?
Difficult one this, there is no hard and fast rules, you can only do what works, and stop doing things that dont.
Do I call her when I go out of town (like I used to)? Do I give her hugs hello/goodbye? Do I initiate conversation or wait for her?
I had to stop doing all these things, when it was apparent that she just wanted to be left alone. My initiations of small talk at the meal table was seen as talking jibberish.
What about after she moves out ... she has talked about still doing the grocery shopping, coming home to cook dinner a few times a week ... should I allow this or make it difficult for her?
Oh! heard this one to, mine said I could go round for Sunday dinner and christmas...Now she would not give me the drippings off her nose. Things will change, cross this hurdle if and when it happens.
Do I help her buy a condo or force her to rent?
If this implies financing her trip into La La Land - an emphatic No!
I am so confused. What and the heck happened to my wife?
Was2sad, made a great summary, it can be found on the "one liners" thread, in the resources
My status, about 3 years on, from the time I see in your thread, for the past 2 years, we have had an in house seperation. She would hardly speak to me, act as if I had the plague.
As with you, I have looked after my wife for 2/3 of her life. She would treat strangers better than she would me. And still cant tell me my crime.
Our house sold 46 days ago, and she went her seperate way. I have had 1 eMail in that time asking for a status on a joint bank account closure. One left open for final utility bills etc.
My son went with her, and my daughter chose to be with me, kids to be shared out like the other material assets. Wife rings daughter about once a week.
In that 2 years, I did observe a gradual warming up, but so very slow.
KB, if you are seeking to find what has happened in someone else's marriage regarding a returning spouse, do not use it as a measurement whether your wife will wake up. Each case is different. The only thing I have heard is that, in most cases, the MLCer will eventually wake up and realize what they did. Unfortunately, I have read many times that the LBS gave up eventually to find happiness without their MLCer or the MLCer was too damaged to return. However, I have read some success stories and I like to read and reread them hoping for the best.
As it was already mentioned, you need to make the changes in yourself for you. Not to get her back. Your situation sounds a lot like mine but many have similar stories. Her leaving probably had little to do with you and probably everything to do with her. You could have been the "perfect" husband and she could have still left to "find herself". If there is another man, rest assured that almost all affairs end miserably. The percentage of affairs that result in a lengthy relationship are almost negligible.
There are no guarantees but if you wait out this whole mess, you may end up with your wife again if she wakes up. She will never be the same person she was before but neither will you. Your marriage could be much stronger after the ordeal. It is up to you if you want to wait. It will be hell. I guarantee it. Is she worth it? That is up to you. But you will have friends, coworkers, family and "interested" women that will tell you to move on and experience life.
In the meantime, use this board to vent, to share, to complain, to cry and anything else you need to do while you continue this journey.
mmf
Me:56, W:51 D:26,S:24,S:22 Married:18 Bomb 9/27/06 Separated 11/27/06 Divorced 10/6/08 Leaving it up to God
Wow, I am so sorry to hear what you went through. You should be cannonized a saint! I cannot believe you had the patience to handle in-house separation for 2 years! And I cannot believe she said nothing to you about reasons behind it. Were things relatively ok before the in-house sep? I thought things were pretty well between us, no discussion on improving our relationship for 4 years! We did stuff together, etc etc... Did you feel used? That's how I am starting to feel. All the cards that she gave me that said I love you, you are the man of my dreams, etc, was this all a lie? How can someone just flip a switch like that? I guess it could be someone else. But what happened to marriage vows? Commitment? Do they really think there is something much better out there? You said she warmed up, but that did not change the direction she took I guess. How did your kids handle it? Are you ok now, looking for new relationships, or are you just as hurt and confused as when it started? I hope I am not dredging up bad feelings for you? This is such a difficult situation. I feel like I am in some kind of horrible nightmare that just won't end.
