So, you haven't posted much so this is a bit of a shot in the dark, but basically the way DB works it you strike out on your own and improve yourself to the point that the WAH is so compelled by the new you that he comes back on his own. Several things work against this, namely pursuing and being "around" all the time. So that is why Michelle has certain topics in her book.
So it is a multi-pronged attack. First, goals: and the goals are for you, not necessarily for the M, because, you might not ever get a chance to have your marriage back (I didn't - she just checked out and never came back). So the goals are for you: what do you want to accomplish? Write a book? Improve your career? Learn to fix the things you did wrong in the M? Spend some time figuring out what they should be for you. You can put some in for the marriage, but remember, it will come around on his timeframe not yours.
Next, GAL. If you are having so much fun that he wants to spend time with you, good. But again, you need to do things that YOU think are fun, not things you think he might think are fun. This time is really all about you, not him, not the M. So, figure out what you would like to be doing, and if he decides to join you, it's a bonus.
Next, detachment. If you are obsessed about what he's doing, what he's thinking, who he's with, that is putting the focus in the wrong place. Again, it's about you. So the suggestion to slow down the calls is a good one, but you need to understand why. If you are ALWAYS there/availabe, no desire to see you will grow in him. And it makes you too much in the M and not in your stuff. So, it's not to punish him, it's to help you get centered in your stuff and not be so distracted by the M stuff. Plus, the side benefit is that is makes him wonder what you are doing. And for virtually all WAs I've heard about they ALWAYS second guess this decision, even if they say they are TOTALLY done. Mine has probably reverted back to wanting to be with me a dozen times. But she would always back away after that decision, but the problem is her, not me.
Finally, really figure out what you did wrong and fix it. Get a C, support group, read, go to seminars, etc. Again, this is for you. If he decides that you've fixed the problem sufficiently, good. If not, the next guy gets the improved you.
You asked how they will notice the improvement if you are never together. It's easy. Think how subtle a difference in him you can detect. Right, you can tell many, many things about him in a few seconds. So when you are together he will notice. The other huge one is that word gets around. Even if you are not exactly in the same circles, it still gets around. One of his friends will see you at the health club and he will hear about it. Or his family members will see you somewhere. Just think, if you went out to a restaurant with a guy, how long do think it would take until your phone was ringing? Not long.
Last thing, remember to ask for what you need from him (Once you are back together safely again - this is NOT a DB technique). If you want his to go out with the guys less, say so. He can't improve if he doesn't get the feedback. Then if he decides not to, at least it's not your fault. Remember, unconditional love looks a lot like indifference.
So, read the books, do the program, and hope (and pray if that helps you). If it doesn't work, there are plenty of us guys that will be ready to go when you are!
built4speed My Saga "How others deal with the gifts you've given is not your decision, but theirs." - Richard Bach
I wanted to clear up one thing. Going Dark is not a Last Resort Technique. And you can use LRT whether you are separated or not.
The last resort is simply that. We're talking about preventing divorce, and so the last resort is the thing you do, after which you stop fighting the divorce. When I moved out at W's insistence, for a 3-month "trial separation" that was not LRT. At the end of the 3 months, when I asked her if she would go back to MC, she said no. THEN I delivered my LRT. I said, "If you are not willing to work on the marriage, then I think we should start working on the divorce." I said it because I meant it, it was not a trick. Those were the two choices, and I was willing to accept either outcome. That is a Last Resort.
Like you both I still get on really well with my spouse, but she sees us as 'housemates' and doesn't seem to want to unpick that label and try to be anything else.
This is exactly the same as my sitch. My thinking is that if I can be happily married with passion I would much rather have that with my best friend rather than start all over with someone else. I get that H is worried because passion hasn't been really great between us for quite some time.
People ask him how he can throw away the last 10 years of his life by divorcing and his reply is that he is more worried about throwing away the next 3o years. He doesn't want to live in a passionless marriage. I understand that. I just don't think a friendship like ours is that common. Maybe he can have the passion with someone else (it always is exciting when it is new)I think though that he'll end up in this same position again in another couple of years but not with someone he has a great friendship with. What then? Serial monogamy? I think at some point if you really love who you are with, you have to be willing to put the work in to have what you want and we have definitely not done this. He is very aggravated because he has been telling me that things haven't been good for him on and off for about a year. We talked and talked about it. Things we felt needed to change but neither of us took the initiative to make that happen. I think I was really in denial about how far this could go. I thought we were just having a low phase and I thought that was normal for any marriage and we'd get through it. Now that it is serious enough where someone is moving out he says I'm throwing everything and the kitchen sink at it. He's frustrated that I didn't try this hard earlier. He says now it may be too late. He knows that if we work at it, things could possibly change enough where we could both be happy but he just doesn't know if he even wants to do that anymore. He says he is tired of trying. That irritates me because we haven't really tried yet. All we have done is continue living each day ignoring the issues.
M:29 H:30 Married: 8 years (together 10) 6/14/07- Seperated
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7
New question. I'm at homw with my Mom right now in Florida on vacation but I am going back to Texas on Thursday so I really need to have a plan for going back. It has really been so much easier here kind of like getting away from it for awhile but I digress...
We have a C session the Tueday I get back. Can I still do 180's (not really sure what that means for me yet) and GAL and still go to C sessions with him? I moved out of the house b/c I couldn't handle being there alone and one of the stipulations was that he owed me counseling. 10 years together..I told him hw owed me one hour a week. He said he will at least go once and we'll see after that. So my question is that I know I need to detach, GAL, and do 180's. Can I do these things and still go to counseling once a week?
Also I've just about finished the first book ,Divorcebusting, and a good part of it with the 180's is figuring out what causes arguments and how to avoid them, change your behavior, etc. The problem is H and I never fight. On a day to day basis everything is fine (or was) The only thing we ever argued about was how much he hung out with the guys at a bar. Right now I don't know how much of that he is doing and I don't have a say in it anyway. So the question is, what kind of 180's do you do when you are seperated.
Thanks for the help. You have no idea what a help and support this site is for me. Well I nevermind that I guess you probably do.
M:29 H:30 Married: 8 years (together 10) 6/14/07- Seperated
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7
having a down and $hitty day. My sister announced last weekend that she is pregnant and it is just really hard to hear all about it all the time. Starting to read DR today. Finished DB and thought it was really good but just struggling with picking out what applies to me and how to use the strategies when you are seperated. H and I now only talk about every 3 days. God that hurts! We have never had such space between us. Well...except for the last time we were seperated. Ready for bed..tired of being upset! I'm on vacation. I'm supposed to be happy! Try again tomorrow.
M:29 H:30 Married: 8 years (together 10) 6/14/07- Seperated
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7
This is exactly the same as my sitch. My thinking is that if I can be happily married with passion I would much rather have that with my best friend rather than start all over with someone else. I get that H is worried because passion hasn't been really great between us for quite some time.
People ask him how he can throw away the last 10 years of his life by divorcing and his reply is that he is more worried about throwing away the next 3o years. He doesn't want to live in a passionless marriage. I understand that. I just don't think a friendship like ours is that common. Maybe he can have the passion with someone else (it always is exciting when it is new)I think though that he'll end up in this same position again in another couple of years but not with someone he has a great friendship with. What then? Serial monogamy? I think at some point if you really love who you are with, you have to be willing to put the work in to have what you want and we have definitely not done this.
Once again our thoughts about our partners match. My W and I can get on really well and she does enjoy spending time with me, so why is she throwing it all away without an attempt to address the issues we are uncovering in counseling ? In my opinion, these are quite big factors in what has killed our passion, but she just acts as if it is all too late or as if everything that was is set in stone.
Most of us wonder from time to time if we could be happier and know that we could, for a while, but we don't walk away each time this thought pops into our head otherwise we'd always be on the move! Like you, I worry that my W will continue life moving from R to R and then end up on her own. Perhaps she will be happy that way. I think sometimes you can do too much soul searching rather than getting on with things here and now. The basic fact is that life isn't easy.
My current favourite analogy for what is happening is that my W is not happy and has gone off on a search for her emotional pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I tend to think that she won't find it, or at least what she is looking for, as it doesn't exist. You have to work on life. That pot of gold, if it exists anywhere, is just as likely to be right under her nose in our R. However, I guess she still feels she has to undertake the journey and that is what hurts. <sigh>
Max
Me 36 W 37 Bomb (Easter 07) Sep (WAW July 07) "It's over" (end Oct 07) T10.5 years, M2 (before bomb)
Good morning, I'm a gator too, living in Central Florida. My W informed me a few days ago that she wants to move out. Our sitches are similar. We almost never have fought in our 20 years of marriage. We are both in individual counseling because her therapist says she has issues she need to work on before she can work on our marriage.
I don't know if the reason you two almost never fight is the same as our reason but I wanted to give you my perspective.
I grew up never learning healthy boundaries and because of this, any little thing the someone said to me that was negative would affect me greatly and make me hurt and feel bad about myself. This caused me to put up walls in my mind and not let much of anything in or out. I would avoid anything that could cause negative emotions,anxiety or anger in me. Even more, anything that could cause other people to feel those emotions about me. I became a pleaser. I'd do anything that someone else wanted so they would feel good about me and not negatively. Because of this, I would not participate in arguments with my wife. sometimes she would say "why won't you argue with me!?". The point is, although this attitude created a seemingly serene atmosphere at home, it was actually a recipe for disaster.
If this applies to you, your spouse, or both of you, I urge you to learn how to break down the walls, learn how to create healthy psychological boundaries, and build your self-esteem. A fantastic book that has helped me immensely is called "The New Rules of Marriage" by Terrance Real. There is a whole section about self-esteem and building healthy psychological boundaries.
My wife has yet to move out, but it is imminent. I, too, have been confused about all the different approaches and which to take. I've come to the conclusion in my mind that I should use my observation skills and awareness to find what works. If you do the 180s CONSISTENTLY and see no positive reaction, then try a different approach for a while. Keep trying something different until you see a positive reaction, then run with it. Listen closely to what he says when you talk to him and you might get clues to what he might want. My wife said something the other day while we were talking about "dating" each other while we're separated that tells me that she wants me to not be easy and give in to her every request. Like if we kiss at the end of the night and she feels something special and wants me to go further, I might say, no...I'll leave you wanting more. She has implied that would be a powerful motivator for her.
If you are actively working the 180s, I think you can still go to counseling and keep your distance while still reaffirming that you want the marriage to work. You can say, "I love him very much and would love to work on repairing our marriage...by the way, is this session ending soon because I need to get home to get ready for this evening." He's going the think...Huh, what's she got going on this evening!? You are showing your continued commitment to the marriage but at the same time, you are not waiting around for him, you are continuing to live your life and have fun doing it. The confidence you show, the independence, might be very appealing in his eyes and maybe even further increase his respect for you.
Keep the faith and be at peace knowing that you are doing all you can to improve yourself. All you have the power to do is improve yourself and to talk to him about what you have learned so he can see the changes you are making and, maybe, learn something himself. You have to let go of the result because you can not control or change him, he has to change himself. If you are satisfied that you are doing everything you can on your end, be at peace with that and, again, let go of the result for it is out of your hands or control at that point.
Just got an e-mail from H and he is asking for us to meet and talk when I get home. I told him last week that I really didn't want to meet until after our first CA. I'd like to see what happens there first. The truth is that I'm scared to death about what he has to say. As of last week he told me that nothing has changed and his mind has not been swayed (he has told me that he is leaning toward divorce but not sure yet.) My stomach is in knots just thinking about our meeting. I'm so afraid that he'll tell me that he is filing for divorce or that he is seeing someone (I kind of doubt this one but you just never know) I don't want to sit there and be a mess in front of him. I don't even understnd what a 180 is yet! HELP!
M:29 H:30 Married: 8 years (together 10) 6/14/07- Seperated
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7
This is what I would try to do: If you really don't want to meet is there any way you can firmly but politely express this. For example, you may already have made plans for the evening and can't make that time and then suggest a time after the session?
If you can't avoid it, remember to keep calm, to listen and to act positively but still keep your boundaries intact (whatever they may be for you). Also, if things get serious give yourself time to think, because really it is only a moment in time and things will look different once your emotions have time to come off the boil. Easier said than done, I know, but it is true.
Hope whatever happens isn't too stressful.
Max
Me 36 W 37 Bomb (Easter 07) Sep (WAW July 07) "It's over" (end Oct 07) T10.5 years, M2 (before bomb)
The bible quote in your signature is wonderful. Try to keep it in mind especially when you are in the midst of something difficult. When you are with your H, don't show him fear, weakness & resentment. Show him love, strength, and confidence that says to him: "even though I love you with all my being, no matter what happens, I know that I will be okay." If you have trouble showing those things even in this dark period, examine your self-confidence. Bring yourself back to center by saying to yourself and knowing that you are a good person. That you have worth simply because you are alive and no deeds on this earth can either increase or diminish your worth. You are not greater than or less than any other human.
Release fear by putting your full trust in God, that he will guide you on the right path. In Psalm 56:11 the psalmist writes, "In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me." So don't be afraid. Whatever happens is what's supposed to happen in Gods plan for you. As I said before, you can also have peace in knowing that you are doing everything you can, diligently, on your end to save your marriage and make it better than it ever was before.
