Hello again. I just read through the first 16 pages of this forum and I don't recognize many of the names anymore (hopefully this is a good thing). I have not posted in quite a long time. In any case, my story in brief:
Sex before marriage was excellent. Truly one of the main reasons I married her. Then, classic bait and switch. Sex stopped immediately after our honeymoon with panic attacks and other such emotional (and physical) bad stuff happening that stemmed from my W's abusive childhood. Not her "fault" just a fact of her past.
Started counseling (individual and couple's). Misery for the first 2.5 years of marriage then things got better and consistently improved. W on Lexapro (this stuff saved us). Now celebrating our 5 year anniversary with the last 2 years being really great....except for sex. We have gone through all the stuff...SSM, Care and Feeding, Good girl guide, fake it til you make it, let's do it twice a week, let's let you have control, let's let me have control, let's try never saying "no" and other workshops, programs, intimacy building workshops, weekends away and other research/activities/projects ad infinitum (well at least for the last 5 years).
So that brings us to today...
Relationship is wonderful except for sex. I don't think I could create a better best friend if I could build one myself. She is a great mother, cook, buddy and confidant. AND she will now allow me to have "use" of her body but only according to her guidelines which are:
1. Not her on top (self-image) 2. Not me on top (it is too painful - we have had this checked out and there is nothing wrong with either of us except that our anatomies do not appear to be completely compatible) 3. Can't be tired 4. Can't be PMSing 5. Can't be in a bad mood (2 weeks out of a month max for good mood) 6. Must use artificial lube (even though several Dr.s have reported that there is nothing wrong with her "gear" she simply does not produce natural lubrication...although she did before we got married...hhhmmmmmm?????). 7. No oral (it makes her jaw hurt even though she has had surgery to fix this) 8. No kissing really beyond little closed mouth lip-mashing (see #7) 9. Can't last longer than 15 minutes (See #2 and #6) There are other minor criteria but I am tired of listing.
So there are about 4 hours per month when I am allowed to express physical desire for my W...and...to be honest, I just don't really enjoy having sex with her anymore (even though I now find here even more physically attractive than I did when we first met). My sex drive is pretty much the same as it has been for years I just don't want to have to work so hard for it for the rest of my life. It is like I am working really hard to have an elaborate dinner party and not only do I just get to eat the crumbs that have fallen on the floor...I don't even get to speak to the guests. Too much effort, little payoff. Sex (and masturbation) has turned from fun, into a reminder of everything that I cannot have, into pretty much a chore.
Basically I get the feeling that she is just flat out not interested (Captain Obvious, 2007)
So now I am starting to believe that, at least for me, a poor sex life, even when everything else is going pretty well, is just not enough to stay married.
After re-reading this I am not really sure why I am posting at all. Maybe to vent. I think I came to this site again hoping that, in the year or so that I have been away, someone would have come up with a solution that did not mean divorce for me...you know, that perfect, all-American solution that would give me instantly what I want with not much effort! ;-) Alas, as with everything else (well, except for liposuction), it is just not to be.
I'll try to get back to this to reply (just in case anyone posts anything). Good luck to all of you.
By the way, let me give you guys one piece of advice that you would do well to follow. If your partner (and therapists) start telling you that sex is closely tied to money for your partner....cut and run. Don't worry about all the, "Oh no, what if I never find someone like this again!" or "What will happen to the kids?!!?" Trust me, you and the kids will be far better off if your family does not fall into this sort of "trap." I was told that if I removed "financial stress" (I was never aware of any, I make 6 figures for chrissake, but apparently there was) that the sex issue would go away naturally...since sex and money were so closely tied together for her. If you do this, something will definitely go away and it won't be the sex issue!
One last thing, don't quit until you have tried everything. You will always wonder "what if" if you don't do it all. Also here are simple (thought not exclusive) mathematical formulae that are applicable almost anywhere and at anytime:
Talking = female communication Sex = male communication
No talking = no relationship No sex = no relationship
Sorry you had to come back but obviously you are hurting. Hopefully we can help you get through the worse of it and help you make the right decisions.
I am in a sexless marriage - totally sexless.
However, as I told our ST yesterday, if it meant be being with my H and not, I would choose to stay. As much as I believe sex is a real gift between two people, the loss to me would be far greater to have a H that I had sex with, but had no other qualities I liked. After all, sex will eventually not be a major part of your R as you get older.
But I also know that H and I not having sex also leads to the problems that brought me here, therefore I know it is something that needs to be addressed. Not that it helps you any for me to vent, but you are not alone.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I would say I guess you need to figure out if you want to stay or not. Obviously, the 2 of you have been through C, etc. and nothing seems to help. I know when my H dropped the D bomb, I did a total 360 and some flips. I'm not saying to do this just to see if it works, I guess you need to be serious about it, but maybe that would wake her up to the seriousness of the sitch. I hate everything about D, but in a lot of ways, I'm glad my H and I went through the D sitch period b/c if we hadn't, I know we would not be at the good place we are right now. I'm hoping that it just continues to get better from here. It seems, and I'm not sure why this is, that H's can tell their W's how they are feeling about the lack of intimacy & sex, but the W's just don't "get" the seriousness of it all. I obviously was one of those W's, and honestly can't really explain to you WHY we don't "get it."
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
After all, sex will eventually not be a major part of your R as you get older. Why? Most men are capable of sex till QUITE old. For most men, their sex drive is NOT going to realy decline, but the equipment may stop working. Supposedly the average 70 year old man in America is having sex FAR MORE then I am. Just because the equipment stops working does not mean they stop being sexy.
If your partner (and therapists) start telling you that sex is closely tied to money for your partner....cut and run.
And they say us guys are shallow for marrying for sex.
My guess is your wife has Financial security as Her #1 need. Not good, my wife is the same. You can NEVER have enough money in these cases. Also, I bet you were her "SECURE" choice, you know, the good guy that she wanted to take home to mom. What turns her on are the BAD guys in her life. FOr some reason, women desire men that DON"T want them. How to achieve this is beyond me at this point.
As NOP says, and I agree with him... if the sex isn't wonderful, neither is the R. Your W is still not being open and honest with you, nor vulnerable with you, and the place it always shows itself to you, is in the sex dept. Especially with that list.
And you are not being honest with her, nor vulnerable, nor supportive, by accepting duty sex and that list.
For some reason, women desire men that DON"T want them. How to achieve this is beyond me at this point.
Cemar - this applies quite heavily to men also. There are a lot of men out there that choose women for all the wrong reasons too. We all have a subconscious that helps us do that. The trick is getting in touch with that subconscious and changing how we behave so we won't do it again, and again, and again.
And, yes, I know we all can be sexual until death do us part, but the physical act of sex eventually fades with time (and the lack of the equipment working) - I was talking primarily about IC and how a lot of men want just that and will sacrifice all the other good things about their spouse in exchange
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
6. Must use artificial lube (even though several Dr.s have reported that there is nothing wrong with her "gear" she simply does not produce natural lubrication...although she did before we got married...hhhmmmmmm?????).
7. No oral (it makes her jaw hurt even though she has had surgery to fix this)
Giving her oral makes her jaw hurt? Either she really needs to see a doctor or you're not doing it right!
Yes, I know what you meant by #7. What happens when you try to give her oral? What should happen is that plenty of natural lubrication quickly becomes available. If not, there's a problem somewhere.
This whole list indicates a lack of enthusiasm and a lack of desire. Has she spelled out the whole list or are you just piecing it together from various comments and complaints?
Anyway, before you throw in the towel, you need a two-pronged approach to see if her enthusiasm and desire can be awakened.
1. Become more attractive - get a life, get more confident and upbeat, see a doctor for any physical or mental issues that might be holding you back, fix anything in your home or job that you've been neglecting, and so on. All these things feed on each other and reinforce each other, and you'll gradually find it easier to keep it up.
2. Using some of your new confidence, gently, playfully, but firmly lead her through better sex. Work around the physical issues of course, but a lot of her attitude can be thought of as sort of role-playing. Your role, which has to be played convincingly (which means you can't really fake it, because if you were a good actor, you'd have already gotten her on board) is to manfully and playfully "overcome her resistance" - not through rape, but through "persuasion". It's kind of hard to explain, but once you've gotten into the right mindset, it's amazing how easy it is to pull it off. But to get in the right mindset, you've got to get more confidence.
And getting more confidence and getting an interesting life is key to attracting other women if #2 doesn't work and you move on.
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 07/02/0706:16 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Maybe she wants financial security more than a particular standard of living. My W gets very upset when we fall short, but she's open to making efforts to cut back to address it. You may have to make the first move, get her input, and find out what level of savings (not income) would make her feel less nervous about your situation, and then work with her on a budget to make that happen.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
