Locked that 1st thread -- what a milestone!!! Good or bad, I can't really say though This post is connected to the last couple of posts on my previous thread.
sunny --
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Like Michele says, you can fall in love w/ someone & out & in again. The in again takes much patience & I think there are signs that your W might be sneaking peaks.
Can you point those out to me? I honestly see NOTHING that makes me feel this is the case.
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The OM appears to be a "buddy" type, comfort for her right now & more than likely won't be a long term R (IMO).
What makes you say this? She spends the night with him alot, sleeps with him, etc. It's both an EA and a PA. I do know that he doesn't have the best, er, qualities in sexual department (my friend overheard her say this to his fiance), but they are nonetheless intimate.
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As far as satisfying her LL, think of ways to do it sideways so you don't scare her off.
What do you mean by "sideways"?
Thanks sunny -- you've been very helpful!!!
Onewish --
Thanks for the Frank thread -- plowing through it when I can, but am still in the intial stages. Like I said, I'll get to your thread sometime today and post my thoughts. Hope everything is relatively well with you, considering.
Just realized that I should place my first thread post here to give people an idea of where my M is. I've edited it some to make it current.
Okay, the really long and detailed version of my sitch starts here at the top. HOWEVER, if you want to just get the surface, cliff notes version, you can find it near the bottom where it states SUMMARY.
My W and I have been together for over 10 yrs and married for 7 yrs. We began dating in high school when I was 17 and she was 15. For the first year, it was AWESOME! We NEVER fought, always flirted, no drama, had lots of fun, intimacy was great both physically and emotionally, etc. Then I moved an hour away to go to college, but came back on the weekends to see her. About a year and a half into the relationship, I caught her cheating with a mutual friend (an old semi-boyfriend of hers). I was devastated, but she said she wouldn't do it again so shortly after I took her back and never brought it up again. I then dropped out of school and moved in with her. About a year after that, we moved out of state so I could go to the college I'd always wanted to attend.
After being there for about 6 months, I discovered a letter in the mail that was returned to us. It was one she had written to the OM she had cheated with. I opened it, read it, and found that this was her first attempt at contacting him (she had the address wrong, which is why it came back). In the letter, she said that she had a vivid dream about him and that she loved him and would always love him. I was again devastated. I confronted her about it and she was ashamed and guilty. She said she acted on impulse due to the dream and had regretted sending the letter immediately after she did. I was angry and deeply hurt, and really let my emotions fly. She then told me that she knew that he was a poor choice to have a relationship with -- that it was purely physical and that she knew deep down that I was a much better man for her.
A few months later (a little over 2 yrs into the relationship) I proposed to her and she said yes. Looking back, I know this was poor timing because of the recent turmoil (it was what I believe was my first move toward controlling her), but she was absolutely estatic about it and so was I. Soon after my proposal, I found out my mom had cancer and only a short time to live. I was an only child raised by her only most of my life, and this was worse than my W cheating. My mom died about 6 months after our engagement, and only a week before our wedding.
This made the early part of our marriage horrible, because I became a withdrawn, angry, volatile drunk for about 9 months. I quit school and work, and began drinking at the bar everyday basically from open to close while she worked. I cried hysterically over my mom's death everyday. I would come home drunk and scream at her for not understanding what I was going through and comforting me the way I needed to be (though I now know she did her best, given the circumstances). I also accused her a cheating on me again, though I had no basis to believe this. I became very physically intimidating and threatening, and even hit her once in one of my drunken rages (something she never forgot). Despite this behavior, she continued to stay with me and never told me she would leave me. After about 9 months of my drinking and being mean, she finally told me that she had had enough and was leaving.
I was numb with hurt and begged her to change her mind. After a few days of being gone at a friend's house, she took me back as long as I quit drinking and treating her this way. I agreed, began attending college again, and about 3 months later we became pregnant (intentionally) with our first child. During the pregnancy, I treated her like a queen -- never argued with her, got her anything she wanted at any time of day/night, brought her roses all the time, etc.
After our son was born, I continued to treat my W very well and constantly got up in the middle of the night to feed our son, rock him, etc. I always invested in spending time with my son and tried to be the best dad I could be by making his formula, reading about parenting, changing diapers, etc. With some of the money I had inherited, I bought my W a car that she wanted a lot. Shortly after, we bought a house we both liked a lot and moved in. We then attempted to have another child but had a miscarriage the first time (which was really hard on my W), but were successful the second time.
Again, I was a model husband during this pregnancy, and we were blessed with a baby girl. I became a sort of Mr. Mom (just attending college) while my W both worked 40 hrs a week and went to night school full time. I believe my wife came somewhat resentful of this because the kids (especially our oldest) cried for me when they were upset. My W felt very much out of the loop, and I became critical of some of her parenting tactics because I wanted to raise the kids by Societies' expectations and she wasn't meeting those expectations.
I continued going to school while my W worked, and paid for some bills while she paid for many others. I always made all of the financial and parental decisions, and I thought that this was okay since our house was purchased with my inheritance and I spent the most time with the kids, but never asked for her opinion. I became obsessed with "keeping up with the Jones'" and living by both what my mom would have wanted and, again, by what Society would expect of us as a middle class family. I insisted that we keep the house in a certain condition and tried to model our lifestyle after other people's expectations. If she wanted something, I had to approve of it, but if I wanted something I would buy it and she wouldn't say anything. I became more and more insecure about my choices or ideas when my W questioned them, and would constantly blow up if she challenged these things in any way (even when I knew I was wrong and she was right). I became controlling with everything.
This caused me to become very critical of her every move. I felt unappreciated because I did everything for the kids, did all of the housework, and didn't receive any thank you's from her at all (although I didn't really show her any either). I then graduated and became a full time H.S. English teacher and wrestling coach. During all of this time, the rest of my family had passed away (grandparents and great grandparents), and I had once again inherited a large sum of money, but again completely controlled how we spent it. I put in exhausting hours (70+ a week) so I could be the best teacher I could be, and often worked until 1 or 2 in the A.M. I figured that this was part of being a young family with a young career, and never questioned what I was doing. I was doing this more for others than for myself or my family. My W also never said that she wanted me home more (I think she knew that I would find a way to argue that what I was doing was "right," so why bother).
I then planned a surprise trip to Vegas for our anniversary (she loves to gamble and we had never been there). The first night there, she didn't want to go clubbing and dancing, but instead wanted to play the slots. I was frustrated and decided to go by myself. I drank a lot and became so drunk that I passed out in the club and was escorted out. I became belligerent and went to the lobby at the hotel to file a complaint about the club. They then called down my W who I verbally abused in front of everyone. She then went back to the room and I was soon physically escorted up there myself, where I apparently became physically threatening, verbally abusive again, and vomited everywhere (things that I used to do years ago). I didn't remember much of this, but she filled me in in the morning. I ruined the anniversary, but came to find out that she hadn't even gotten me a gift for our anniversary OR Father's Day (they were the same weekend). Despite this event (which was pretty damaging to OR), we continued on.
About a month and a half later, we decided to buy another house, but I helped convince her to do so by bargaining. She had always wanted a boob job (for many years), and I told her that she could have one if she agreed on the house. Of course, she did, and we moved in a month later. A month after that, she got the boob job, and was very pleased. I also acknowledged that I was very pleased as well, but was still controlling everything we did, how spent our money, etc. A little over a month after the boob job, we had another fight (which I started over more petty B.S.), and didn't talk for 4 days. When I finally apologized, she said that she didn't think she could do this anymore (i.e. stay married). We talked about it until 5 A.M., but her mind was made up. I was able to convince her (although reluctantly) to just separate for the time being, to see if we could work it out. We both agreed that we wouldn't see other people during this time. This was on November 6th of last year (7 months ago).
It took her about 3 weeks to actually get an apartment and move out. I helped her get in, sent her the new furniture that we had bought for our new house, gave her anything she needed, etc. I tried to help her as much as possible, give her space, etc. In the meantime, she became a totally different person by going out every night that she didn't have the kids and getting hammered. I didn't even feel like I knew her anymore and it was driving me crazy. She knew that I was desperate to work things out (I know, desperation is bad), but didn't seem to care. She refused to see a marriage counselor (bad childhood experience), so I began seeing one alone (she didn't seem to be very positive about the possibility of reconciliation, sadly enough). I did a lot of reflecting on what I had done wrong throughout OR, and made a committment to do what I could to change my patterns of poor behavior and communication. However, I just couldn't stand not knowing if she would come back or not. I'd been in control of everything for so long, this lack of control drove me insane!
We had Xmas together at our house (she didn't get me anything but I got her things "from the kids"), and a few days later --just under 2 months into the separation -- I asked her to make a decision to either stay together or divorce (I know, controlling again). She said that if I was going to make her choose now, then it was a D. She wouldn't sit down with me and explain why she didn't think we could work it out, and I couldn't stand not knowing this (still can't!). 3 weeks later, she still hadn't filed D papers, so out of frustration and need for control, I FOOLISHLY went and did so myself. I WISH I WOULD'VE NEVER DONE THAT! WE STILL MIGHT JUST BE "SEPARATED" TODAY! She was pretty irritated once she received the papers, plus she knew I had met up with a girl downtown who I had recently met, which I'm sure didn't help things. However, she was still going out drinking and now trying to get laid, so I didn't know how much my meeting up with another girl really affected her (and still don't).
I went "dark" (without really knowing it) for the next 3 months, and quit calling her unless it was necessary (i.e. had to to with the kids). During this time, I didn't get her a birthday card/present or Valentine's Day gift, yet was polite and cordial whenever we talked on the phone or exchanged the kids (once a week). Then I got a DUI on St. Patrick's day and as a result lost my job.
At this time I quit seeing my C (who wasn't helping at all anymore), and went into a pretty big depression. I began writing letters to my STBX every week explaining what I had come to realize about myself and OR. At this point, she had recently started seeing a coworker who is 38 (12 yrs older than her), has 3 kids and is going through a D too. She never told me to quit writing them, so I assumed it was okay to keep writing them. A week ago, however, she brought her boyfriend (who EVERYONE -- her friends included -- says doesn't hold a candle to me physically) to our daughter's dance recital. This was really difficult for me because not only was this my first experience seeing them together, she didn't even tell me he was coming! She was wearing a low cut blouse that exposed her new breasts, and I felt like she was rubbing everything in my face. Despite all of this, I amazingly maintained my composure and was polite (she kept the boyfriend far away from us when we talked) and acted as if it was no big deal (though I felt like I had been punched in the gut by Mike Tyson).
The next day, when she picked up the kids, I asked if she had read any of the letters. She said "yeah, some of them...and I would appreciate it if you would quit writing them. I calmly agreed to do so, and then told her that I respected her relationship with her new boyfriend because I knew she was getting all of the emotional support from him that I had neglected to give her throughout OR (her friends mentioned this is why she likes him so much -- his looks definitely don't factor in). I continued by saying that as long as it makes her happy, then I'm happy because I just want her to be happy. She held my eye contact throughout this and was sincere in saying that she wanted me "to be happy too, and was sorry that it had to be this way." She then left.
We had our first mediation appointment in mid May, which was very civil. My wife will walk away with NO money in this divorce, since, by Idaho law, all my inheritance money is NOT community property. However, I feel guilty about this, and during the meeting I said that I would give her 40% of the sale of our house when it is sold (hopefully by the end of this summer). That would be enough for her to buy her own house outright.
Started DBing after first mediation appt, and went to the second one and retracted the 40% offer and gave her control of this sitch by asking her what she thought was fair. For reasons she explained (and which made sense, too), she said she felt 50% was fair, and after some discussion I agreed to it.
She has brought OM to our son's b-day party at Chucky Cheese's, and I handled that just fine (DBed my ass off!), and acted "As If" and happy/confident/upbeat. She also brought him to the house once to pick up the kids (though he stayed in the car).
I've gone pretty dark and have been LRTing since the end of May. I've also been GALing like crazy. I Lindy Hop dance on Monday nights from 8:00 to midnight, play in an Ultimate Frisbee league on Wednesday nights, am on a Lindy Hop performance team that practices on Thursday nights (have performed in a few parades this summer), have been doing many activities with my kids (camping, zoo, park, etc), and went to Hawaii for a week to visit a best friend from High School.
Wife didn't acknowledge Father's Day or our Anniversary (same day), and didn't even get me something from the kids. I didn't acknowledge our Anniversary either.
Recently tried to retract my filing for D, but W denied it and asked for the D to proceed.
Despite all of these negatives, I've continued being friendly, helpful, caring, upbeat, happy, and confident when talking with her on the phone and in person. I rarely call her now (only for major sitch's involving the kids), and she now calls me more (however, it is always about her schedule and the kids). When she calls now, most of them go to my VM.
That about covers the long version (told you it was long!)
Okay, SUMMARY (the short, diluted version):
SUMMARY
Over these last few years my W and I have grown farther and farther apart. Whenever we had BIG fights, I would cuss at her, call her names, belittle her, and always pulled out the "her cheating" card, and showed that I had never really completely forgiven her. I did whatever I could to "win" the fight/argument. I have also been pretty controlling with our finances and lifestyle for several years now. She has stayed passive aggressive for years by avoiding doing things for me and the house, and never did put her foot down and said she would leave me if I didn't learn to treat her with respect (though I should have known -- I just took for granted that she would always be there).
We have 2 kids (5 and 3). She left me in November and I foolishly filed for divorce in January. She now has a boyfriend from her work who seems to provide her with a lot of emotional support and doting, which she seems to like regardless of the fact that he is 38 (she is 26 and very beautiful), out of shape, mostly bald, not goal oriented, has 3 kids of his own and is going through his own divorce. During the last 7 months of separation, she seems to be annoyed and hates me at times, but is decent and kind at others. At the beginning of the separation, she was rebelling a lot by going out getting hammered every night she didn't have the kids (yet she was never much of a drinker throughout OR).
I "went dark" as much as possible for several months, which seemed to peak her curiosity a little bit (according to friends and my own personal opinion), but during the month of April I got desperate again (because of the boyfriend, I think) and wrote her one letter per week that explained things I've come to understand about OR and my own patterns of behavior and communication in OR. She brought OM to some of our kids' events, and I then asked her if she had read the letters. She said yes, some. Then she asked me to quit writing them, which I agreed to do. Since then I haven't made any attempt at R talk in any way.
She is entitled to none of my inheritance money, yet at mediation in May I offered her enough money in the divorce settlement to buy her own home outright (for both selfish and unselfish reasons).
After the offer she was rude and short at times, but instead of being the old me and getting sucked into retaliating, I stayed calm and cool, and just continued being friendly. This seemed to take the wind out of her sails and she has been friendly ever since.
She has brought OM to our son's b-day party at Chucky Cheese's, and I handled that just fine (DBed my ass off!), and acted "As If" and happy/confident/upbeat. She also brought him to the house once to pick up the kids (though he stayed in the car). The old me would have handled all of this poorly, but the DBing me was awesome with it.
I've gone pretty dark and have been LRTing since the end of May. I've also been GALing like crazy. I Lindy Hop dance on Monday nights from 8:00 to midnight, play in an Ultimate Frisbee league on Wednesday nights, am on a Lindy Hop performance team that practices on Thursday nights (have performed in a few parades this summer), have been doing many activities with my kids (camping, zoo, park, etc), and went to Hawaii for a week to visit a best friend from High School.
Wife didn't acknowledge Father's Day or our Anniversary (same day), and didn't even get me something from the kids. I didn't acknowledge our Anniversary either.
Recently tried to retract my filing for D through my atty (which is final mid August), but W denied it and asked for the D to proceed.
Despite all of these negatives, I've continued being friendly, helpful, caring, upbeat, happy, and confident when talking with her on the phone and in person. I rarely call her now (only for major sitch's involving the kids), and she now calls me more (however, it is always about her schedule and the kids). When she calls now, most of them go to my VM.
Currently things are kind of at a stand still (as of end of June), and am now wondering if I should try addressing her LL, which I've not done yet.
What a story, we have a lot in common. The drinking is so close to home, I was home all night with the S and drank away, by the time she got there I was blasted. I bet my wife loved being gropped by a smelly, drunk idiot. I caught the Idaho reference, you don't have to say, but one hour away, home isn't Idaho falls is it? I live just down the 1-15 corridor in SLC.
Drive through every once in a while, but now that we are seperated I'm sure I won't be heading north to often.
Further west and North from IF, but we're still relatively close (about 4 hrs).
Yeah, for awhile there I was a sad drunken idiot. Haven't been that way for quite a spell, but whenever I do drink it tends to not be pretty. Best just to stay away from it entirely.
Well, today things just turned a little bit upside down for me.
S5 just mentioned to me that he and D3 stayed at OM's house with W the whole time I was in Hawaii. I couldn't help it, and asked if he had stayed at W's apt at all. He said no, and that mommy is living at OM's house now, and that she has to move her stuff in with him. My heart just sank. It is kind of funny because MIL had asked W back in late March/early April (when W and OM began dating -- supposedly) if she was going to move in with OM and W said something like, "I'm not willing to give up my independence now that I've got it." My, my, how a few months changes things.
I shouldn't be dwelling on it, but I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that W's lease will be up in August sometime, and she is trying to avoid being strapped for cash until our house sells and she gets her cut. That would be the most optimistic way of looking at it. However, I'm sure that she just thinks this is love and why waste any time. I wouldn't be surprised if they already made wedding plans. I think I'm gonna throw up.
I'm trying to stick to the 48 hr rule, but thoughts are racing. In our mediation appt in May, W said that she wanted 50% of the house so she could buy a house of her own without having any payments attached to it and so her and the kids would be stable. Now I feel like she is going to use it in her new R with OM so THEY can live comfortably. I feel like calmly asking her to have another mediation appt or to meet with me without the kids around so we can talk. I want to bring these concerns up, but know that it will likely stir the pot and push her away more. However, how much further away can she get?! I feel like I'm getting completely hustled here.
I know that I can't control her and her choices, but I can control my choice to give her 50% of the money from the house (those familiar with my story know why). I feel like putting in some stipulations like 1) money cannot be used to purchase house with anyone's name but W's on it, or 2) money can only be used to purchase house under W's name alone. Does this sound unreasonable, controlling, etc? Should I just say oh well, she can do with it what she wants, and let her and OM live comfortably together at my expense?
Aarrgh! I'm so flustered and frustrated right now. Please, someone give me an outside view of how I should handle this new knowledge of W's potential intentions to move in with OM.
Well the kids are always perceptive and it is sad they are digesting all of this. Like you said you can't control her. In all honesty I have never been one to openly give, but that seems to be helping me right now, is by just saying here you need this or that. Then again, I didn't give a whole house.
The only thing I think you should do is at least the 48 hour rule, think it over and work through it, both sides of the issue. Remember they are just her intentions, you can always set a plan in place if she acts.
Just walked in the house & have to leave again right away. Wanted to get back to you now, rather than later tho b/c us LBS have to exercise so much patience w/ everything else, it's nice to get something kinda soon, no?
I'll skip to your last post re; 50% of the house. I've been on both sides of the financial standing also. I'm the only one I know that not only supported my XH (young surfer /;-), but had to scratch a nice check afterwards. In his defense, however, he could have gotten much more. So, here's my take; don't combine your emotions w/ the D settlement if it comes to that. Always be fair though, b/c at the end of the day you want to have your integrity intact. Don't sign anything ahead of time & know that you don't have to come to an agreement before the D. It's a separate issue. It doesn't really matter how your W takes title, b/c she can always change it later anyway. Just take your time & see how things unfold & think it through.
On the other issues;
"Like Michele says, you can fall in love w/ someone & out & in that your W might be sneaking peaks."
What I mean by that, is that there was a lot of damage done in the R. It seems that she is doing tiny things to "inch closer", but is still threatened right now. We, o/c never know if it will be mended enough, so all we can do its try & be patient.
"The OM appears to be a "buddy" type, comfort for her right now & more than likely won't be a long term R (IMO)."
I don't care that she's set up house w/him, doesn't matter. Whenever you attach to someone for security reasons it doesn't portend a strong & lenghty R to me.
"As far as satisfying her LL, think of ways to do it sideways so you don't scare her off."
What I mean is to tread lightly, delivering the message in a non direct/accidental looking way instead of straight at her. You can do this in a number of ways. An example would be the way you complemented her in an earlier thread. Subtle & take it slow.
I would leave the financial out of it as long as possible, if you can. That stuff almost never brings up the positives.
I don't know if you can use any of that, hopefully some.
thanks, sunny! I agree that the sooner the better on replies for the stressed on LBS!
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I don't care that she's set up house w/him, doesn't matter. Whenever you attach to someone for security reasons it doesn't portend a strong & lenghty R to me.
I honestly don't think this is why, but I can't say it isn't either. It is simply the best way of looking at it. I've calmed down a little since I last posted, but my head is still swimming over how to deal with it. The collected DBer in my head says, "Just let it go. She is going to make her bed -- let her sleep in it." It also tells me that somewhere down the road when she has time to heal from OR and doesn't feel threatened anymore, she will see all of the changes I've made and stuck with, and also realize that I did a lot for her when I didn't have to. In the end, it will all shine through, and whether or not we are together, I can be proud that I did all I could for her, me, the kids, and OR -- and she won't be able to deny that either.
Just wanted to say that I know the new information you received was painful & hard to take. We are all here for you & certainly understand.
You are right that when your sitch calms down & settles some that your W will more than likely be more receptive to good feelings about you. That's been the case in all my relationships. In fact, I've rarely seen it unfold otherwise. I guess that's why they say time is your friend, no?
Wait 48 hrs b/f doing anything & you'll be glad you did. Being Ms. KneeJerk reaction, I have a hard time w/this also.
funny you should ask -- just got back with the kids from seeing Ratatouille (or however you spell it). Gonna get them to bed -- be back in about 15-20 min. Work away (did you see my most recent obstruction in my DBing efforts?
This post is connected to the last couple of posts on my previous thread.