"Tough Love" separation

[Towanda]

This has been a crazy emotional roller coaster for the 6 weeks or so since I first joined this board. But that's way plenty of lurking time - time to introduce myself

Bit of background:
Me: 44
H: 50
Married 8 years
2nd marriage for us both
No kids together; each have a S16 from first marriages (yes, same ages)

This week I've finally "come out" to my friends and family about my husband and I separating, signed the lease on my apartment, started packing, etc., so it's only fitting that I finally post my sitch.

I've been a STBWAW for about 7 years - yes, most of our marriage. Sat on the fence all those years and the fence finally gave way. Not because of any "bomb" or anything, just weight and time. And me being the only one holding the fence up. He didn't even notice it existed. And it just got too heavy for me to support without any help. (Warning: I speak primarily in metaphors - don't know why)

Essentially, the glue that's kept us together is fear. His fear of being alone and my fear of not being able to be self-supporting (among many, many others.) Plus we met when we had both recently come out of emotionally abusive and draining marriages, so being with each other was a very pleasant change from all that stress. We're also both prone to depression and isolation. Two frightened, needy, empty people clinging to each other in the dark. How romantic, huh?

I finally, FINALLY got to the point (MLC?) where I can't continue living my life in isolation and making life decisions based on fear. HUGE step for me.

And I've finally realized that staying in this M (in its current state anyway) makes it far too easy for me to stay dependent, frightened and needy. The painful part is that my H just doesn't see it, doesn't understand what I'm talking about. Or maybe he does but is too frightened to confront our mutual demons. Either way, I've been having to struggle with this on my own, and I can't fix us both. But I can't even fix me in this environment. So, like a drug addict I guess, I need to get to an environment that doesn't encourage and support my "habit" of unhealthy dependency. This is where I got the idea to separate. Tough Love for the self, if you will.

I've read TONS of books and we've done TONS of MC and IC over the years. I think I've benefitted tremendously; he doesn't think he gets anything out of it; I have no desire to pursue any more MC at this point. Lots of promises made, lots of talk, very little action. The M can't be saved unless we BOTH address our individual issues. I'm gung-ho for that; he's in denial. Gridlock.

Anyway, this is a HUGE, huge step for me. Scary, scary stuff. Not sure how this will all look a year from now. I can't change my H; I can't fix our M by myself; but maybe at the very least I can grow up and start facing my fears. And that'll be a good thing no matter what happens with the M.

Taking the plunge,
Towanda

[NMHurting]

Tough sitch...sorry to see things got you here. But there is good company to be had.

[Towanda]

Thanks. It's amazing how much strength there is to be gained just from reading posts though.You're so right, we're not alone!

Looking forward to connecting and sharing on a regular basis (once I'm all moved it and have my own internet service

Towanda

[No_LRT_Yet]

T,

Hate to see you here, but welcome. There is a lot of great advice to be gotten here. It looks as though you have been contemplating leaving for a while. It takes courage to admit you have things to work on to get yourself better. I believe if my W would tell me that she has some things to work on and not put it all on me it would be easier for the both of us. Right now she is making me feel like this is all my fault and none of hers.

How do you come to the point to know where it is fear that is keeping you in a marriage? Was there a revelation? Did you figure it out through counseling? How do you know? Do you feel like once you overcome that fear, you will reconcile with him? I ask these questions because I feel like that could be the case with my sitch. While I do not have a fear of being alone, I do have a fear of not being with my W. And I believe that she has a fear of being independent. She moved out last year, but came back when she couldn't afford her apartment. She says it's because I kept asking her for another chance, and she decided for the kids to give it another try. Now she is ready to leave again but can't right now because of finances.

I am hoping to gain some insight from your sitch because I believe my wife and you are going through some of the same things and I am trying to understand so i can save my M.

Thanks!

[JR2007]

T,

I am hoping to gain some insight from your sitch because I believe my wife and you are going through some of the same things and I am trying to understand so i can save my M.

Thanks!

Ditto. Towanda, I think you're in for a lot of discussions since many of us here have WAW's. Your insights will be so valuable and I truly believe talking through all this with others will help you too. Good luck with your situation.

[Towanda]

Hey LRT & JR

Thanks for the warm welcome! I'm happy to share my thoughts with you and hope they can be helpful - thanks.
(Just a head's up though - I'll only be able to check in sporadically over the next week or so - I'll be in the middle of moving and I'm not sure how long before I'll have internet hooked up at my apartment - so it may take a while before I can get back online consistenly.)

How do you come to the point to know where it is fear that is keeping you in a marriage?

I guess when being away from him clearly felt better than being with him, yet I still stayed. The only explanation that made sense was that I was too scared to leave. I certainly wasn't staying out of love. I was dependent on his material and emotional support yet I was contemptuous of him too. It's a lousy way to treat someone you really do care about, even if only as a friend.

Was there a revelation? Did you figure it out through counseling? How do you know?

Not sure if it was the cumulative effect of IC, reading LOTS of books,journalling, self-observation, conversations with friends, the maturing process, but over the last year and a half I realized to my horror that I was emulating the identical "victim" behavior/beliefs of my parents. NOT GOOD. I saw where that took them and I knew I did NOT want to follow that.(50 years of victimization and mutual contempt. And very, very sad and empty lives.)

That meant no more blaming others for my unhappiness. Period.

I also came to understand and embrace the philosophy that says whatever you don't like in another person is really just a projection of what you don't like/won't accept in YOURSELF. Ouch.

That meant all the complaints I had about my H were probably really true about...ME.

Ay, carumba. That's a bitter pill.

Do you feel like once you overcome that fear, you will reconcile with him?

Only if my H works on HIS issues as well. We're two peas in a pod and I seriously doubt I can become and stay healthy and whole and live together as long as he's still "using" his drugs of choice (isolation, sudoku, internet, self-absorption, inertia). It would be like one recovering heroin addict trying to get clean while the partner is still openly using, selling and pushing. Wouldn't take me long to fall off the wagon at all. And I just don't want to go there anymore.

If he uses this separation as an opportunity to address and overcome some of HIS fears instead of just sinking back into his usual isolation and self-pity, then's there's hope. Only time will tell.

While I do not have a fear of being alone, I do have a fear of not being with my W. And I believe that she has a fear of being independent. She moved out last year, but came back when she couldn't afford her apartment. She says it's because I kept asking her for another chance, and she decided for the kids to give it another try. Now she is ready to leave again but can't right now because of finances

For YEARS I did blame my H for my unhappiness and wanted to leave. I even
had a brief EA. But I never felt financially or emotionally secure enough to
really leave. Between bouts of serious depression and other personal
problems, I seemed to have a tough time findind and holding down a
full-time, grown-up job. In fact, I got fired from the one good job with
great pay and good benefits that would have easily enabled me to support
myself and my son. Coincidence or self-sabotage?

The EA only "justified" my blaming my H for all my problems since I felt so
much happier in this OM's company. I felt like total scum the whole time I
was betraying my H (even if it was "just" emotional), yet I didn't want to
give up contact with OM. It was nuts.

I think my journey to the point I'm at today really started, ironically,
with that EA. Or more specifically, when the bubble burst on it and the
reality of what I was doing and who I was involved with sunk in. (He was
unhappily married too - our common ground for getting together in the first
place - and EAs and PAs turned out to be his drug of choice for coping.)
(For the record, mine happened to be food and alcohol. And whining.)

I finally snapped out of that trance and tried to take really take a good
look at what the h*ll I wanted to do with my life, what I felt was missing
deep inside, what made me so vulnerable to the attentions of this OM in the
first place. Especially since cheating on my spouse did NOT make be feel any better about myself or my M.

So, that EA was a blessing in many ways. The proverbial brick to the head can
work wonders sometimes. Hitting bottom, I suppose.


LRT,
Your wife sounds like she's wavering between wanting to leave and being able to afford it. I know everytime I talked about leaving and got spooked by the $$ reality, I scurried back to my H's open arms. And all would be well. But the desire to leave always kept coming back. How old is she? How old are your kids? What kind of realistic employment prospects can she pursue? How honest do you think she can or will be about the true motives behind her actions?

I'm 44, right smack in the middle of a MLC, and I'm convinced that this is playing a huge factor in my decision to move out.

Can't go back. Can't stay still. Guess I gotta move forward.
Towanda

[No_LRT_Yet]

T,

She is past the point of wanting to leave. She wants a divorce and is waiting until she can afford it. She will be 36 on Sunday. The kids are 7 & 5. She has a Masters degree in Social Work so I believe she can get a job. But she is usually never happy in a job for long. She had an affair last year for four months and says she realized that we were incompatible sexually. So as you say your EA lead you to this decision, her PA lead her to this. She says she never enjoyed sex with me and would often cry afterwards. I never knew. As far as her intentions to leave, I believe she is leaving for the right reasons. I had a PA 2 years into the marriage and several EA's over the course of the marriage. I don't think she has a any other motives for leaving except for the fact that she is just fed up with me.

She has issues with her parents also. Especially her mother. Her mother was the caretaker and traditional mom. Always cooking and cleaning and never seeming happy. She wanted to be the opposite. I supported that. My W never cooks or cleans and I supported her in that. I tried to support her in everything she wanted to do.

So even with your decision to leave, your H is still not willing to work on himself? It would seem that if he was dependent upon you as you were him, he would do whatever he could to make it work. What was his reaction to you leaving? Did you expect a reaction from him? Do you plan to file? What is going to be your communication with him now?

You appear to have a plan and I hope you find the happiness you want. Do you still plan on getting counseling for yourself?

I like your slogan. Can't go back. Can't stay still. Guess I gotta move forward. I need to get there. I don't want to move forward because I don't have a plan. I am still trying to hold on to this thing. Fruitless I know, but it's where I am and I don't know when I will be able to move from this spot.

[Towanda]

So even with your decision to leave, your H is still not willing to work on himself? It would seem that if he was dependent upon you as you were him, he would do whatever he could to make it work. What was his reaction to you leaving? Did you expect a reaction from him?

To be fair, I had been crying wolf about leaving for years. So it's understandable that my H never took me seriously and was never motivated to change. But this time it's for real.

One of the issues is his almost pathological level of passivity. He seldom initiates anything in his life. He never fought for custody of his son; he never stands up for himself; he never challenges me or anyone; so, it's not surprising that he's not challenging my leaving. He shows very little emotion about anything.

Do you plan to file? What is going to be your communication with him now?

I have no immediate plans to file. This separation is such a huge step for me, psychologically, that I need to regain my equilibrium before I make any other significant moves. Plus, there's always that naive hope that my H may show signs of improvement. As I like to say, "there's a lot of baby in that bathwater."

Haven't figured out a concrete plan regarding communication; I'm tossing around the idea of checking in with a phone call once a week or so. But, really, I"m not sure.

Any suggestions?

Towanda

[No_LRT_Yet]

T,

I can't say I have any suggestions. I am on the opposite end of you. Your goal right now is to get yourself better. If you can't be happy with yourself, then you can't be happy with someone else. Listen to me. My W is not happy with herself and I can't let her try to get herself better. I hate being a hypocrite.

If he is not willing to deal with the issues you have with him, and you no longer want to deal with them, then you have made your decision. Apparently the bad outweighs the good in your M. You said in a previous post that your EA revealed a lot to you. I believe we always see the best in our EA's or PA's. We have this high that come from them. Like this is the way it should be. And then when they are over, and we come down from that high, we look at our significant other with despair. Like, why can't you make me feel that way. Then, what I gather from this board, we start to see all of the good in our M. Like some things that were not that big, that we could have dealt with. But it becomes too late, the damage is done, and although you may reconcile, you always have the thought of "I left, why did I come back to this?" And the next time you leave it becomes easier. Or, your SO never doesn't give all that they can because there is the chance you could leave again. And they are scared to give there all to the M because they don't want to be hurt again.

So, if your plan is to leave and get yourself better with the hopes of reconciling, I would suggest a better way. If it is just to get yourself better, then you have made your choice.

[Towanda]

LRT
You've made some interesting points:

But it becomes too late, the damage is done, and although you may reconcile, you always have the thought of "I left, why did I come back to this?" And the next time you leave it becomes easier. Or, your SO never doesn't give all that they can because there is the chance you could leave again. And they are scared to give there all to the M because they don't want to be hurt again.

Wow - I never thought about it that way - thanks.

You said in a previous post that your EA revealed a lot to you. I believe we always see the best in our EA's or PA's. We have this high that come from them. Like this is the way it should be. And then when they are over, and we come down from that high, we look at our significant other with despair

You're absolutely right about the "high" - which is eventually followed by the "crash."
And it was the crash that taught me so much. That's why I think my EA ended up being a blessing. An incredibly painful, messy selfish one that hurt other people - I owe it to myself and all those who were affected to at least learn and grow from it and not make it all for naught.

So, if your plan is to leave and get yourself better with the hopes of reconciling, I would suggest a better way. If it is just to get yourself better, then you have made your choice.

Again, good point. Perhaps, deep down, I'm calling this a separation with an "unknown outcome" in order to spare my H's feelings and to avoid spooking myself.

Hey, I'm the one who called this "tough love" - means I can't go soft on myself and still expect to make progress. Growing pains, here we come.

Thanks for keeping me real.

Towanda