And we are onto the third thread. I love all of the interaction; this one locked in much less time than the first.
For those who want to catch up or see where we left off, here are the last two entries of the last thread:
June 16, 07 @ 11:16 am Anne,
As long as we learn from the past, we don't have to make the same mistake again. Steven Wright has this one quote: "Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it."
The boys will be with me tonight, but have to go to a family BBQ tomorrow for a while, but later we'll go to dinner....mom's buying. And I put in a bid for a father's day gift. "I need a new coffee maker...and I want the red one" were my exact words.
Pretty soon, I will get the boys, but must stock up first. Those crazy kids will want to eat! It is overcast here and will rain before too long. We'll watch a couple movies (Full Metal Jacket will be one) and then later tonight boxing.
Have a great day.
IMP
June 16, 07 @ 11:22 am Imp -
I don't know if you are a Dan Fogelburg fan or not (my boys completely disdain my love for his music, but he was my mainstay in HS), but he has a line in one of his songs that's nicely insightful:
"Lessons learned are like bridges burned: you only need to cross them but once."
I love that, and I like your Steven Wright quote too. I only hope that the Wright quote can be overcome and the Fogelburg quote is accurate!
Your day sounds like it holds potential for some fun. Enjoy! A
Just wanting to report my present state of mind beyond insane.
H and the boys and I went to lunch today and had a really nice time. I can tell, though, that I have to be careful right now how I respond to things with H. We have had about two weeks of slightly warming interactions - he's been more friendly and kind in how he talks and responds to me. After today, I know my gut reaction is to push a bit more for deep R talk - and I know that I can't do that!
Two things I'm trying to remember in order to hold back:
One is that I can't fix H's problems and that H doesn't even want me to fix them. Today, I could see H really feeling regrets and sadness about not being at home with the boys. S1 is off today for a week of jazz combo camp - a huge thing for him that promises to have all kinds of ups and downs and growth. Because of various reasons, H will likely not talk to or interact with S1 until the end of the week and he wasn't able to share with S1 the pre-tryout jitters that S1 has, primarily b/c H isn't living here at the house. I could tell by how he talked and physically responded how much that idea and reality pained him. My gut reaction to watching and hearing H's sadness is to pursue and fill in the space; to "fix" the problem for H. BUT, I know that H will not invite or even allow that - and the result would be H lashing out verbally at me and me getting hurt. So, I have to practice my new found ability to not fix others' problems and just sit with the knowledge that H is hurting inside.
The other thing is to remember how easily H can be put on the defensive if he starts to feel vulnerable or attacked. B/c we have been having slightly more relaxed interactions, H will be more suspicious and sensitive to interpreting anything I do as pursuing. If I let down my more twilight distance I've been using, H - feeling a bit vulnerable - will so completely not read it as a positive thing and I will become once more the thing he needs to get out of his life to feel better. I know this, and so I am having to NOT interact any differently now than before the kindness started. (Thanks Michele and others for that guidance!)
I hate this, but I know that I will be a stronger and less "co-dependent/enabling" person if I hold tight to myself.
The other thing is to remember how easily H can be put on the defensive if he starts to feel vulnerable or attacked. B/c we have been having slightly more relaxed interactions, H will be more suspicious and sensitive to interpreting anything I do as pursuing. If I let down my more twilight distance I've been using, H - feeling a bit vulnerable - will so completely not read it as a positive thing and I will become once more the thing he needs to get out of his life to feel better. I know this, and so I am having to NOT interact any differently now than before the kindness started. (Thanks Michele and others for that guidance!)
Anne, could you elaborate on this a little more. Are they saying that if H acts nicer to you, do not change your behavior towards him or he will back off?
Me45 H45 D13 S10 together-23 years married-21 years MLC Divorced 10/3/07 Married to a wonderful new man.
Anne, could you elaborate on this a little more. Are they saying that if H acts nicer to you, do not change your behavior towards him or he will back off?
Yup!
It's counter-intuitive for me, but part of why H is being more relaxed around me is b/c I am not "right there." If I turn around and start being more talkative, more inquiring, more wanting to talk R - more like I used to always be - H will back off faster than a pack of dogs on a three-legged cat (I found that on Google ). In essence, my current behavior is a 180. It's the very fact that I'm nice but distant that has prompted H to let his guard down - or at least that's the theory - and if he can stay there, he will let go of focusing on me as his problem and begin/continue to focus on what might internally or otherwise be his problem.
In the end, though, I need to do this to keep me from being hurt by his words more than anything else; if he is also able to redirect his energies and find some solutions, that's just gravy.
Ok, so how do you deal with the change-back pressure? Here I was/am doing really well, and then, boom, today all I want is to go running to H's place and beg him to come back. I know we can do this together, I want to say, all the while knowing that I'm not sure I can - or maybe even want to - do this together.
The good news is that I didn't beg or even mention what I was feeling when I did talk to H today, so I didn't jeopardize what I've got going - if anything - with my twilighting. Still, I hate the funky sad feelings today. I know more than ever that a divorce isn't what I want, even though I know I can survive and I have some great ideas and visions for a future that might or might not include H ... but today I don't want anything but for H to come home tomorrow and say that he loves me.
you know how you deal with the change-back pressure. You sit at your computer, and you write on these boards. Because we have dug big holes where our marriages used to be. And we can't just climb out in one step and declare our love. It takes a long time, and steady work. So keep up the twilighting and wait for him to get that feeling that he misses you. It is as Carrie says in Sex and the City, "that ever-seductive fear of commitment dance". It's all in the chase. Does he want you to chase him, or does he want to be the one to chase you? It is the games that keeps life fun.
People seem to be reeling around here. Full moon - June 18. Wonder if that has anything to do with it.
My ex showed a lot of sadness. But here I am divorced. Try not to get caught up in moods. I know it is easy to say, but short of actually hearing what a person says is on their mind, trying to figure out where they are is pure speculation.
Quote:
I have some great ideas and visions for a future that might or might not include H
And that, my good woman, puts you so far ahead of many I have seen on this board. As I always say, what you have to do is the same whether the spouse returns or not.
Hang in there. As the Shirelles would sing: Mama said there'll be days like this There'll be days like this mama said (mama said, mama said)
People seem to be reeling around here. Full moon - June 18. Wonder if that has anything to do with it.
My ex showed a lot of sadness. But here I am divorced. Try not to get caught up in moods. I know it is easy to say, but short of actually hearing what a person says is on their mind, trying to figure out where they are is pure speculation.
Quote:
I have some great ideas and visions for a future that might or might not include H
And that, my good woman, puts you so far ahead of many I have seen on this board. As I always say, what you have to do is the same whether the spouse returns or not.
Hang in there. As the Shirelles would sing: Mama said there'll be days like this There'll be days like this mama said (mama said, mama said)
You're right, Sara, about knowing how to deal by writing here; I just wish I could find another way that really took the longing away. Just keep growing, right?
Quote:
It's all in the chase. Does he want you to chase him, or does he want to be the one to chase you? It is the games that keeps life fun.
I don't know at all that he enjoys chases of any kind. I can't tell today what he would want. When we started dating, I did all of the pursuing - calling him, etc. - but then I was only 17 and he was almost 19. I think he wouldn't want me to do anything of the kind anymore. Still, I wonder how I would know if things were changing towards reconciliation if he doesn't say anything; would he start to flirt or should I? Could I even begin without absolutely losing everything done so far? Do I want to be in a relationship that I am so conflicted about? Can I realistically expect ANY relationship to be unconflicted? Too many questions!!
And Imp:
Quote:
what you have to do is the same whether the spouse returns or not.
Part of what started me downwards this past couple days wasn't anything he said but something I realized. I came to realize that I don't want to have a relationship where the passive-aggressive games get played like they were during our marriage. That makes me sad, b/c it might mean the marriage has to end even if I love so many other things about H. I just wish I knew where we were going. I know that even if we were in the position to divorce right now, I don't want to go there; I'm not that impatient for closure yet. I am, though, creating dreams and writing futures that will help me keep going. How crappy it is, though, that love and deep connections aren't enough to keep a couple together! Even with all of our problems, H& I always knew what the other was thinking (of course, until the end, apparently! )and we could talk about anything forever. I love that part of us; that's the part I want to rebuild on. And the hardest lesson I'm learning is that just b/c I want it, it just might not happen. BLEAH!
Hi Anned, Just read this thread and wanted to say hi. I can see you are sad and hopefull and full of fear. Please do not give up hope for your marriage. If there was a real connection it can be found again. Only this is not on your timetable.. I have learned so much in the time DH and I separated. I feel that when we reconcile (which may be a long time still...) I am capable of creating a great marriage! Hang in there!
). In essence, my current behavior is a 180. It's the very fact that I'm nice but distant that has prompted H to let his guard down - or at least that's the theory - and if he can stay there, he will let go of focusing on me as his problem and begin/continue to focus on what might internally or otherwise be his problem. 
)and we could talk about anything forever. I love that part of us; that's the part I want to rebuild on. And the hardest lesson I'm learning is that just b/c I want it, it just might not happen. BLEAH!