Kim07 Separated 4 Years

[COG]

Hi Kim, here's your new thread.

COG

[COG]

Kim,

I read some of you first posts, so I have a little of your background. You are new to DB, and it may take awhile to see results, but here's a few positives that I see in your sitch.

1) You are still on speaking terms.
2) He's not pushing for D
3) You are still in C, at least as of a couple months ago.
4) You are still looking for solutions.

Read Divorce Recovery and and let it sink in.

Here are some of the things that I did to help me through:

1) Throw away the calendar, stop counting how long it's taking.
2) GAL
3) Stop being a doormat
4) Let God be your guide, best friend, and C.

If it would have taken 10 years for W and I to create the R we have now it would have been worth it. So don't count how many days, months or years it'll take. Just live life one day, one moment at a time.

Getting a life for me was to stop focusing on "us", and start focusing on "me". You H travels all around the world and you stay home depressed, sad, left out. Well, the solution is easy. If you like to travel, then go, on your own and then come home and tell H how much fun you had.

Stop being a doormat. It's not OK that your H has an add on soul.mate but freaks out that you had one on singleparent. So, he needs to know that. It sounds a little bit like you need to set some boundaries with him. If he's a jerk to you, then it's OK for you to tell him so. But please not in the heat of battle, let things settle first, then bring it up and firmly set your boundaries.

This was a tough one for me because I was trying to be the best little H that I could be. Well she just was whiping her feet on me so, after about 3 years separated, I finally had enough and stood my ground. We were back living together within about a year.

Let God be your guide. A spiritual life is so important. There is a God, and He's attempting to guide us all. So many people have gifts and powers that they leave dormant because they don't believe. He will counsel you. W and I were in C for a year or so together, and I kept going alone for another year or so. C was good at dredging up the muck, but did'nt offer us any real solutions.

The solutions, come from within and they will come clear when you pray and meditate. In my experience, and like me, most LBS see themselves as a victim, left for no good reason. Well, in my case, there was good reason. I got an F as a H. I thought I should recieve an A, and I fought to defend my position for many years, until God made it clear for me. I saw my faults, MY sins, My shortcomings and worked to change those. Change for my own good, MY own eternal salvation, and I let go the need to control my W, to fix her.

I began to learn how to love her unconditionally. I let her go and realized that I had to move on with MY life. What she did was between her and God, and I am not to judge.

The best advice I can give is to just keep trying new things, new attitudes, new ideas. Keep the one's that work, and stop the one's that don't work.

Hang in there, change your stratedgy, don't give up!

God Bless,

COG

[JR2007]

Excellent post! Thanks for sharing.

[Kim07]

Thanks COG for setting that up for me,,now if I can learn how to link threads, take someone elses quotes & bring them into my posts,,i'd be good to go! He, He

Some things were said at that appt yesterday that lead me to believe that he has already moved on and i'm at a crossroads here,,I can 1.)Fight like hell to save my marriage and use the tools Michele & you guys have given me or 2.) Give up a losing battle & walk away knowing in the end that I did everything I could to save this M.

My understanding, at the appt. listening to H, was he picked #2,,so i'm really at a loss here,,I guess I have to decide whether I want to continue or not,,just so hard when I do all these things, GALing, DBing, detaching, LRT and get no encouragement or feedback for that matter from H,,,"the dog has no bone, no incentive in front of him to make him run"~~thats' how I feel! I don't initiate e-mails, TM's or calls anymore(a huge 180 for me)unless he does 1st & its' about the kids,,been doing this since Dec. 06(backslid 3 or 4 times) & its' still not working! I've added other things in there to change what i'm doing per DB coaches to get responses but to no avail!

To top that all off,,we have not ML going on 6wks now(before it was 5wks & before that it was 5 1/2wks)and even tho he says there is no OW he is LD & wouldn't matter to him anyway! For me, i'm HD and very touchy feely type person so it matters to me a lot and i'm not getting what I need thru other means,,if you know what I mean?!

When GALing I am constantly asked to go home w/other men, they flirt w/me, invite me on trips, to dinner, out drinking, etc.,,,if H knew about this he would say(& has in the past) if it makes you happy, go do it, I can't stop you-w/a smile on his face! Then when I do go on a trip by myself(180)or out partying until 3am(GAL) & tell him about it later b/c he askes, he gets mad & starts accusing me of sleeping around BUT I'M NOT ALLOWED TO ASK HIM ?'s b/c in his words,,"thats' why we are not living together b/c you don't trust me!"

So I just stop the accusations & not say anything, don't initiate by calling, TMing, emailing, etc. & then HE says to Michele that for the last 6months its' been like a ton of bricks lifted off his shoulders, its' been wonderful(sex 4 or 5 times(instead of 24-30), no longer doing things as a family, no longer seeing same C, no outings together, no contact unless on his terms, no time together, no spending time at each others' house, no working out together, no church together),,,then she says, "What did she do differently to make that happen?"-no response from H & then the subject was changed!! WTH??

Did you have R's w/other people while you were S'd that included hugs, hand holding, kissing?? Loaded ? I know but I just am having such a hard time w/this b/c I feel that my life is passing me by & I don't want to die lonely! I've always had physical affection in my life & can't imagine living my life from day to day w/the thought that if it comes up now & in the future I have to stop & say "No,,I can't do this b/c i'm saving myself for someone else and then in the end H never coming back & had already indulged himself while spouting "I did BUT you can't, ha ha!" Is this what you call a "boundry"? I thought I stopped being a doormat when I stopped initiating, GALing & saying "no" to sex & keeping my distance after telling him that if I didn't TM him back right away, don't take it to heart, it probably means i'm busy & I will eventually get back to you & he said "o.k.",,,use to be a big thing for me w/him, i'd get upset if he didn't answer w/in an hr or so & if it were 6hrs or more i'd get steaming mad,,don't anymore b/c it doesn't matter,,i'm keeping myself busy!

I did start asking for gifts back,,i.e. V-day gifts that were in his garage in a box next to an open window(I had decorated his office-as a sugg.180 & it ended up coming down 2days later), I gave him an engraved, Bulova watch for his b-day in March(at x-mas he gave me a digi camera & DVD player)-he still doesn't wear it! He said he "lost" the 2nd wedding ring I bought him & I found it in his car(junk tray) when I borrowed the car so now I have both(he never liked wearing them),,,there are other things as well that I think if I didn't ask for he would end up throwing away or destroying.

I think he has already made up his mind for sure and there is no going back w/him,,,thats' just the way he is,,,he let go of his S19@age 18 for good reasons BUT he will not even consider a convo. w/him, dinner invite any help whether emotional or monetarily and I believe that kids need to learn how to live on there own BUT its' like he has become his father & "disowned" him! Makes me very sad! Why does everything have to be black or white??? And don't even get me started on the oldest S21,,H won't even talk to him & H tells me that I alone & w/help of my parents screwed up the 1st two,,he doesn't want me screwing up the last two,,,this kills me,,I don't know how to handle this??!! I know we've all done things wrong in raising our kids but geesh, does that mean the mothers' have to be punished & banished from their kids lives?? I don't think so!!

Michele also asked,,"When you are alone, do you ever think that you might be making the wrong decision about getting a D?"
H says,,"To be completely honest w/u, no."~~~Devastating!
I compliment him all the time on stuff he does at work, w/the kids, w/the old house(sometimes),,he takes it all in but gives none of it in return to me(only others)only laughs when i'm hurt(altho he will say, no I didn't & smile). Its' as if he almost delights in hurting me~~thats' when I compare this to WAR:
"They have to demonize you in order to feel justified in killing you". So confusing,,so I back off even more.

As far as GOD goes,,,I have been praying, others have been praying for us and I have gone a few times to the church we were married in, i'm episcopalian, to ask for forgiveness for being a bad W & how to rectify this ending w/MY SAVIOUR'S help,,,the only answer I have gotten lately from looking way deep down inside is that,,no matter what I do or what I change, H will never want to save this M,,,once we get D'd,,thats' it,,I could never get married to the same person again knowing that i'm going in front of GOD to make ANOTHER vow that i'm promising to keep,,when I couldn't keep the same promise the 1st time??! Somehow I just can't come to terms w/that!

I am grateful,,and told my H afterwards, thanks for coming to my C appt. but he made it very clear that he was only doing this for me,,to help me realize what my faults in the M were & to fix them so they are not repeated in other R's w/other men,,I do agree w/that altho the part about H saying hes' only doing it for me was disturbing!

Today,,,oviously is a bad PMA day for me & will again spend as much time w/my kids as possible b/c you have to live each day as it is your last,,as H put it! H also said that he is "very old", not 17, 20 or 30yrs old,,he is 41yrs old!! And that he is tired of the games i'm playing,,WTH???

Thanks, COG for your undying devotion to us & your great wisdom,,you have given me a lot of things to ponder!

Any input from anyone is very much appreciated & considered

Kim

[COG]

Kim,

1.)Fight like hell to save my marriage and use the tools Michele & you guys have given me or 2.) Give up a losing battle & walk away knowing in the end that I did everything I could to save this M.

You have so many more options than that. You don't like your H being so black and white, so you should try to avoid that also. There are a million options, and scenario's. Maybe start by finding peace in the storm.

My understanding, at the appt. listening to H, was he picked #2

You said it yourself, believe mostly in what they do, and little in what they say. He came to C with you, regardless of what he said, he came, for you. That's a positive, avoid spinning it into a negative. All good R's start with friendship, not sex. Try to see this as a beginning, not an end. This is a new guy you've just met. How should you treat him, feel about him, etc.

To top that all off,,we have not ML going on 6wks now

Oh hey, don't even go there. I'm in the sex starved marriage thread right now. Those folks over there, including me, would give our right arms to have had sex six weeks ago, or even six months ago. In fact I can count on one hand the number of times I've had sex in the last 6 years and I'm HD. The first 10 years were awesome, but post bomb, it's been dead on her end. But I can also say, that the sacrifice has been worth it. My W and I have a nice M, and we're still growing.

been doing this since Dec. 06(

Well if it's any consolation, it took at least a year before I started noticing results.

Did you have R's w/other people while you were S'd that included hugs, hand holding, kissing??

No. I had a couple of pretty close friendships, but I cut them off when it started getting too close. Not that I did'nt want it, but I knew it would'nt help our R. I also knew that if I did, then that would give my W a green light to do it. So I did'nt go there.

I could never get married to the same person again knowing that i'm going in front of GOD to make ANOTHER vow that i'm promising to keep,,when I couldn't keep the same promise the 1st time??! Somehow I just can't come to terms w/that!

Oh I hear you there. I spoke with a very knowledgeable pastor who told me according to the bible, we are allowed to divorce under certain circumstances, infedelity being one, however, if we do D then we are not allowed to remarry or that would be adultry. Now what kind of crappy rule is that? But if you think about it, God knew what He was doing when he made it. M is a not just a promise, it is a covenant that can not be broken. Our society does a real good job of faking it, but........ It stinks even more when your S leaves you and goes on without guilt or remorse, free to frolic wherever they want.

Then when I do go on a trip by myself(180)or out partying until 3am(GAL) & tell him about it later b/c he askes, he gets mad & starts accusing me of sleeping around

Well that's not fair is it? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. But if YOU stay out partying untill 3am, then I suppose you would be completely supportive of your H staying out partying until 3am?

My gut feeling is that you might still be a bit in denial about YOUR contribution to the failure of the M. That this is more about YOUR behaivior than you want to admit or take responsibility for. That it's comfortable being the victim because then YOU don't have to be accountable.

I think that your sitch has far more potential than you think, and that negative thoughts are blinding you to the miracles that can and do happen. It sounds like going dark, did'nt work very well. So, try another approach. There's a time to sit back and wait, and a time to kick ass and take names. I'd like to see you do the latter, but start with your ass first.

Hang in there girl!

Love,

COG

[Kim07]

COG,,,hmmm,,,start w/my ass 1st eh?? I guess I could do that!
You're so good pointing things out to me(Thanx):

1.) I do have a "the glass is half empty" type attitude sometimes and can't see beyond it and thats' where I can get stuck!

2.) You & everyone else on the SSM thread are soooo brave, you have such "RESOLVE",,I'm jealous, here i'm having a pity party for my lack of sex when you guys are waiting a lot longer than I think I ever could! I'm so sorry,,I can't fathom the pain, heartache & loneliness in your guys' sitches when mine is just a drop in the bucket,,my GOD how do you get past this pain,,it seems unbearable??!!

3.) I'm gonna have to find that "peace in the storm" somewhere I just can't seem to find it! You would not believe all the things I have tried & H has asked me to do over the years to make myself more desirable to him,,just to be given another task to complete but never gets me to my destination when i've completed them all! You say there are a million things I can do,,,since i'm running out of options & ideas, do you have any??

4.) Hey you're very right,,I did say that,,believe nothing they say & 1/2 of what they do,,,hard words to live by but if I start preaching to others I better start "walkin' the walk"! Hmmm,,,you got me there,,,all good R's begin w/friendship not sex,,,unfortunately, I can count on 1/2 hand the times where sex DID NOT happen 1st,,thats' sad,,I wouldn't even know where to begin since when I try to talk to him aobut things he is interested in he tells me I don't know what i'm talking about & that he'd rather talk to one of his friends in his travel business who knows what their talking about!! I can't compete w/that,,in H's industry 75% are women, 25% are men & 20% of those men are gay,,the other 5% are M'd,,then theres' my H!:( Other times I just let him talk & let off steam about his day at work,listen & validate him,,BUT,,he still goes to someone else to talk about anything including us! Now hes' mad b/c he found some papers(copies of BB posts from friends here supporting me)& H said it was a breach of confidences & that I was telling the world everything!! All i'm trying to do is get support & help,,is that so wrong to ask for??

5.)I understand your POV,,but why does everyone else, who is NOT on the BB's here, notice my huge changes but my H notices nothing,,I think he notices something but wants to hurt me by telling everyone that I have done nothing to improve the sitch or myself,,so I get frustrated! Like today,,I had to call my H at his work, which I do maybe once every 3mons to talk to him re:finding a missing book today or S8 doesn't get his report card tomorrow, I call H's cell-no answer, I call H's home-no answer, I call H's work & one of the girls in his office was down right rude to me, very nasty,,I was very nice when I talked to her(like I usually am), all business, & she was mean!! So in his mind whats good for the goose is not always good for the gander!lol!

6.) Yes, I think I need to own up a little more to this sitch than just playing the "victim"! I've tried to be so proactive but my efforts get rained on by his continual insults,,will have to find a way to not take those personally, especially when they pertain to the kids!! As far as my behaviour goes, re: staying out til 3am, getting drunk, meeting a lot of new people & making new friends, etc.,,,well I really haven't done that before while M'd & it was always me who waited up for H to come home after 3am & sometimes not come home at all w/no phone call!! After a while of calling the hospitals & jails & finding out continually that he was just "passed out" on the side of the road til morning or stayed the night @friends house & forgot to call,,I realized that I could never do that to my kids & never did!!

Soooo,,when its' his night w/kids & i'm alone he tries to contact me when i'm out!! We've switched places temporarily,, the only difference now is that he has no tolerance for it from me when we're S'd and I on the other hand tolerated it for 10yrs from him when we were M'd + I had to keep my mouth shut!!!
What a hipocrit! I guess some people are just born to be "indifferent" & sometimes "intolerable" but expect the world & everyone around them to be the total opposite! I do that now,,,H complained that I always hassled him when he goes on one of his many trips b/c they have parties where they drink, lots of food & dancing, great activities & sight seeing tours,,I stopped ALL initiating communication to him. period,,,stopped asking 1,000 ?'s and he tells me nothing of the parties they have, sometimes lies & says that there weren't any & later someone says something about how drunk he got or something like that but I still kept my mouth shut,,,soooo,,I don't ask anymore, total 180's for me BUT he notices nothing!!

When will he notice any changes,,1yr, 2yrs??

Are they ever remorseful or is it always our fault for everything bad in their life & you have to resign yourself to the fact that that won't change & to "suck it up"??

How can I continue to work so hard & go thru hell for 3 or 4 more yrs of separation when he has already decided its' over & can never be repaired while telling him that I will never see a penny & that I need to pay him CS??

He already tells me that I can't have a R w/his family b/c they don't approve of me anymore BUT he is allowed to contact MY family?? Thats' not right!! Does anyone else see that this is wrong or am I blowing this way out of proportion? As it stands now, I haven't been invited or was said "no" to when asking to go to his yearly family reunion out of state for 4yrs!!

Last but not least,,how do I stop loving him when clearly he has no problem letting go & has moved on w/his life?? Last time this happened w/someone I loved(nearly 21yrs ago),,the only way I got over him was to have someone else in my life!

I'm such a lost & pathetic soul sometimes!!

[ford]

Heyya Kim

you sure have your plate full.

I don't have anything worthwhile to offer, just wanna say Hey.

it get s better.

[COG]

Kim,

Sorry, but I can't make your pity party, I'm too busy trying to help lost souls get back on their feet. Which is what you need to do.

hmmm,,,start w/my ass 1st eh?? I guess I could do that!

Well I guess you better because nobody else is going to do it for you. Nobody else will give you peace and the fulfilling life that you so desire except YOU! God has all the power and grace you need. If you have'nt already read this book, it's a must read "The Purpose Driven Life". Easy read, and a very powerful book that will change the way you look at life. It is primarily your vision, attitude that needs to change.

GOD how do you get past this pain,,it seems unbearable??!!

I prayed every night and day for three years for the pain to go away. Guess what? It's completely gone now after only about five years.

You say there are a million things I can do,,,since i'm running out of options & ideas, do you have any??

Accept your sitch for what it is. Let your H go, set him free. Forgive your H, love him unconditionally as Jesus would. Let go your fear, anxiety, selfishness, and neediness. Don't allow these emotions to affect your decision making, or your actions. Think logically, not emotionally. That should keep you busy for awhile, for a start.

unfortunately, I can count on 1/2 hand the times where sex DID NOT happen 1st,,thats' sad

That's because the sexual attraction NEVER lasts longer than a few years. When it runs out, the R runs out. But freindship, true, deep, and honest freindship lasts forever, long after the sex runs out.

in H's industry 75% are women, 25% are men & 20% of those men are gay,,the other 5% are M'd,,then theres' my H!

Okay there you go again looking at the cup half full. If you do the math, your H is over 100%, now how does that work out. Look what your doing to yourself. You see the impossible as being possible, in a very negative way. You are running HIGH on emotion, and VERY low on logic. That's where you need to start first. And above all don't forget one thing. Of the 75% of women you mentioned above, you are most likely at least in the top 10% I'd guess. How do I know? Because there are obviously a lot of men that want to have sex with you, including your H who wants a D but still wants sex with you. That makes you a very sexy woman. However, you are giving away the store. You've used sex to get what you want, to satisfy your need for security, love, etc. You have to get that reversed before you'll find fulfillment. Build the friendship, the trust, the security first, then jump in the sack.

I understand your POV,,but why does everyone else, who is NOT on the BB's here, notice my huge changes but my H notices nothing

Oh I guaruntee he notices, he just does'nt respect you for some reason. He probably senses that you've only made the changes to get him back. Once you make the changes that we've talked about, YOUR changes, no faking, then he'll BELIEVE you. From your responses here, I sense that you've made many changes, but I'm thinking they've only been made to get him back, not necessarily for YOUR best life.

well I really haven't done that before while M'd & it was always me who waited up for H to come home after 3am & sometimes not come home at all w/no phone call!! After a while of calling the hospitals & jails & finding out continually that he was just "passed out" on the side of the road

Sounds like your H loves the party life. Sounds like an alchoholic to me. If so, then forget about him being reasonable, or logical. He'll sacrifice everything for the party, the next drink. Check out Alanon, it's a great program.

I've tried to be so proactive but my efforts get rained on by his continual insults,,will have to find a way to not take those personally

You need to look him in the eye, with the most humble and solemn attitude you can muster, without tears, and tell him it's not OK for him to be insulting to you. He can have his life, but that he is not allowed to insult you anymore, especially in front of the kids. When he does that, it feels like he is stabbing you with a red hot knife in the chest. Please don't do that to me anymore. Don't be argumentative, don't be wimpy whiny crying, just businesslike.

Are they ever remorseful or is it always our fault for everything bad in their life & you have to resign yourself to the fact that that won't change & to "suck it up"??

Take the focus off him, and keep it on you. If he is not remorseful, then that is between him and God. You just go forward and be the best person that you can be. Strong, brave, and faithful.

He already tells me that I can't have a R w/his family

Well he is not your master is he? Live your life as you want, but do not enlist his family to help you, OR talk about your private issues with them. He obviously does not want them to know about his "real" life, and he does'nt trust you around them. So if you do contact them, then you need to respect his wishes about privacy.

Last but not least,,how do I stop loving him when clearly he has no problem letting go & has moved on w/his life??

Well whether or not you go on loving him, has nothing to do with what he does. We are called to love our freinds and enemies alike. Look up 1 Corinthians 13 and you'll find the real definition of love. What you feel for your H right now are feelings of neediness. You are afraid to be without him, you are rejected, a looser, a failure. If he'd only just turn around, come back to you then you would'nt have to feel all those awful negative feelings. Well, I'm sorry but he'll never come "back" to you. He may move forward with you, but you'll have to grow up, stand up, and find fulfillment in life without him first. And that does'nt mean fulfillment in the arms of another man, that's just a bandaid fix. You'll find your fulfillment in the arms of God.

Love,

COG

[Kim07]

COG,,,OK,,,,I'm humbled! I will take all that you have said & suggested and put it to good use!

I'm trying to get out of this funk by helping a friend right now so the timing couldn't be better!

Please keep giving me info, 2x4's, etc.,,,you know me better than I think I know myself & I think that thats' part of the problem,,,been so wrapped up & worried about others' lives & decisions that i've been neglecting MY well being!!

I have notice one thing that has been happening the last few months,,,since I don't do it anymore,,,i've noticed "a calm" come over me by NOT driving by his house, work, etc. to check up on him or to figure out what hes' doing! After you've not done it for so long, theres' no need, no want anymore!!

I only notice it when its' late, late at night & i'm upset about something or feel insecure. But, I don't act upon it anymore, to him anyway,,,I just give you guys all my rantings if i'm low that day,(lol) & have no contact w/him at all! The less contact I have w/him, the more I feel "independent" of him! I go on a trip to FL on wed.,,,I planned it by myself,,,my 2 youngest sons will be going BUT no H!! That gives me more time w/my boys & my family & friends! I will be on my best behavior, no neg. talk, & just have FUN!! I've been anxiously awaiting for this trip for a long time,,my boys are sooo excited!

Sooo,,,"me lost soul" will focus on what advice has been given me & the trip & try to live 1 day at a time,,,positively!!

THANKS COG,,,I hope you have a wonderful weekend w/your family & kudos to you for keeping it together for sooo long,,you're an inspiration to us all!!

Love,
Kim

[Kim07]

Hey ford,,,

Whatchu talking about,,not offering anything right now??? You already did!!!

"It gets better"~~~the small stuff can make a big difference!

Take Care,
Kim