Hello. It's been quite some time since I had a thread of my own so I thought I'd open one with the intention of gaining more insight into the withdrawal stage.
After 2 years of this crisis, the past 4 months have been when H seems to have pulled far away in communication with me. My H was a drop-in during replay which made for some emotionally traumatic drama. I do not miss it. When I moved several hours away last fall he still called me often enough that I knew if I still lived by he'd still be visiting me.
In Jan. of this year he hit some kind of bottom and we had a series of email and phone conversations in which he expressed just how sorry he was for all of this; how he could finally see the damage he had done and he did not know if we could ever be good together again, after what he'd done; that he was a liar and that the "thing" with the ow was never something he thought would last but he just lied during it regardless; that I deserved happiness and he did not; that he had no ability to love.
And then it seemed he just pulled back. The few times we did talk, he said he felt too much guilt to be with me. He felt it would be easier for him to start fresh with someone he hadn't cheated on.
These last 4 months have been the first time since I've known him that we've had this little communication. And I have not seen him in 6 mo.
I do not hold out hope that we will reconcile but I do wonder if this is withdrawal, or this is a man that is just moving on because he's too full of guilt to reconcile with the wife he abandoned? I do not know what goes on in his personal life; he could be dating and I wouldn't know that. The last time I heard from him, he sent me a happy birthday text message, and that's all it said.
I do still think about him often and I wonder if he does the same about me. I would never ask him. He does not reach out to me anymore. I wonder if this is just him completely detached from me now and moving on, or this is what happens after they've seen the damage they've created and withdraw?
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
I don't know what to tell you. But it is true that people have a deep down built in natural instinct to do one of two things (which in the end are quite similar). They are - avoid the pain and seek out pleasure. These are reasons many people do what they do.
In the case of your H - it really sounds like the first instance - avoid the pain. Being around you reminds him of the damage and hurt he has caused. Because of his guilt and the sheer disgust he has with himself, he cannot stand it. While it is not your fault - you remind him of this guilt. Anytime he is around you, thinks about you - he is reminded of what he has done and the pain it has caused. I know this doesn't help you figure anything out, but perhaps helps you realize what he is doing and why.
No one really knows what he is going to do. But it is clear he is avoiding the pain. But it has been a long time - 6 months right? But as I just posted on my thread - if being distant and having no contact isn't working for you, then stop doing what doesn't work. It sounds like you have given him a lot of space and time. If you feel so much better because of the detachment, then maybe it is the right thing. But if you are feeling more lost and you have been detached for while, then why not try something different. What else can you try? Is it wrong for you to let him know you have been thinking about him? I think not. But this is JMHO. Perhaps he is still in pain. I am sure he knows he has caused you pain too. But running from the pain will not make it go away for it will only catch up with him and you. I know - try explaining that to them only makes them run more.
Take a step back from your situation. Think for a moment. What could you possibly do differently? Would it make a difference? Are there any upsides? Are there any downsides? I am not urging you to open up R or M talks, just perhaps figure out a way to drop that small droplet into the calm lake that creates that rippling effect into something more grand. If there is little downside to it, then what is the harm?
I feel bad for you. I do. 2 years is a long time. I will say a prayer for you tonight - that you get some inner peace and the answers to the questions you so deserve.
Thanks for your reply. Yes, 2 years is a long time. I have come a very long way in those years and am much more realistic about things now than I used to be when this first began.
I guess I was possibly looking for a small bit of hope left that my H was withdrawing from me due to all the guilt he feels but that this too, would pass and he'd eventually come to me to talk about all of this.
You are right. I know he is doing exactly what you said. He hates himself for what he has done and he feels guilt. Back in the winter one of his texts to me was this: "I'm sorry for what I did to you. But I can't live with the guilt." To me, at the time he was saying he did not want to be with me because it's too much of a reminder. That's why he felt it was easier to move on with someone else (i.e., someone he hadn't cheated on).
It's my understanding that if they are withdrawing then they do not want to be reached out to. I have sent him an occasional text saying hi or that I hope he's doing well. He never replies back to me.
I don't think there is a lot left I can do. H said to me in Feb., "don't you think it's just too far gone now?" meaning our R. Sometimes I think it's just better to talk myself into the fact that we won't be together in the future; he's trying to move on from his mistake. I should let him.
It sure is painful though. Even still. I really did love the man he was before he started this crisis.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
I wish I could answer your questions, but I don't have any idea. If I had to guess, I'd say you won't know the answer for awhile. His next step is probably going to tell you more about what this last phase meant. Mostly, I just wanted to say hi and to say I'm glad to see you posting again.
I guess I was possibly looking for a small bit of hope left that my H was withdrawing from me due to all the guilt he feels but that this too, would pass and he'd eventually come to me to talk about all of this.
Hmmm...what would RCR say? You know me, thus you should be able to craft part of my response without me.
There is ALWAYS Hope; it springs eternal.
You are asking questions to which you already have and know answers--and you've answered them yourself in the post. So why the doubt. Everyone here wants to validate that two years is a long time. And sure, it's a long time for someone to Stand without direct signs from the MLCer. Though you had multiple indirect signs. The question I quote way below is an example. What some of this comes down to is your responses.
And in MLC two years isn't a long time. You are not in MLC...so it is long for you. But notice how everyone wants to come in and validate that. (Santhony I'm not picking on you, I see it all the time) That people say this shows they may not be willing or able to Stand for that amount of time...and/or that they don't get or Accept MLC. So many give up now--where you are--or before. We don't have real statisitcs on how many [would] return because the door is shut in their face by the LBS.
Often it's shut literally by divorce and the LBS saying early on...absolutely not. But there are more subtle ways to close the dor slowly...so for that go to my discussion following the quote below.
Your husband is what I will call and MLC classic. Everyone is different and all MLCers are different. But he seems to be following the classic route. Replay, DEEP Depression, Withdrawal...Yes, this is Withdrawal. It's the stage that I personally don't understand well...so I package it as a subphase of Depression.
Let's review LIMINAL Depression is the bottom of the chasm--rock bottom. It is here that a person faces his demons. Those demons are lost, repressed, suppressed and denied fragments of Self. Some are beautiful, but perhaps they were not accepted and shameful in the eyes of his parents...an aptitude for Art or Creativity. Some are shameful things done to or by him. Some are about those childhood issues from the phases he skipped (wounded developmental phases) in childhood and needed to relive in Replay.
Replay is the time where the Persona--the mask we wear--is breaking up. The person is frightened and is trying to avoid this loss of Self. At the Depression before the fall into the Depths, the mask is stripped off...facilitating the fall. Some hang onto the ledge, scramble out and revisit Replay wihtout a mask...repeating this multiple times before finally falling.
So in LIMINAL Depression the person has no SELF...or not one he recongizes. His true Self is there...and it is that Self he must come to know in Withdrawal and Acceptance.
After facing the Demons the person must reintegrate the fragments of self. Some will be released, some will become a part of him.
I still don't get Withdrawal...It is the end of Depression AND the beginning of Acceptance. It is perhaps the phase of releasing those fragments that he does not want...example: physical or sexual abuse. Releasing doesn't mean forgetting. It means they will no longer be given energy. It is a forgiving. If this is where a person determines what to keep and what to let go, it makes sense that he would withdraw. He needs to take the time to come to forgiveness and say goodbye with blessing.
Acceptance is the final stage. This is reintegration of the fragmented Self. Not merely the fragmanets that were lost the demons, but reacall, the entire persona broke apart. Shamans go through this and it is expereinced as complete physical dismemberment. So he now has to put Humpty Dumpty together again. This takes time. Stages 3-5 are relived during this time. Why? Well, this person has always been buried within, but having been buried, it is new to him. He has to get to know himSelf. So he's going to take it for a ride.
Quote:
H said to me in Feb., "don't you think it's just too far gone now?"
And what did you answer...that is the more important piece of information. The question was a beautiful test. It didn't mean he was ready...and thus your answer wouldn't bring him running back suddenly...but it would add to the foundation and be something for him to file away for when he IS ready. Notice I didn't say may or might be ready...someday, he will be ready.
These are the little tests where the LBS can slowly lessen the distance between the door and the doorway, or where she can widen it or at least maintain that it is open. I was asked versions of tha same question...many of us were and will be.
"don't you think it's just too far gone now?" No Sweetheart; there is no such thing as too far gone. I haven't gone anywhere.
And he may respond with a disagreement a Whatever, or something else. His response is irrelevant. He will file the information away and access it when ready.
I also consistently let Sweetheart know that I would not date or marry anyone else--ever (while he is alive). I didn't add guilt to the statement. And that's tough. Many will feel guilt anyway, so I had to make sure that with the statement it was also clear through how I was living my life that I wasn't waiting around pining, but was happy. I let him know that I was fine without another person...I don't need anyone else, but I want you. Your small texts to him are excellent. Don't expect a response...he receives them, cherishes them and files them away.
What he feels guilty for in your relationship--this crisis in particular are some of the demons he must release. He's now sorting through the pile of fragments and determining what to keep and what to burn. How do you feel going through old photo albums, letters, maybe school work and such? It always takes me a long time as each item is a memory...do I want to get rid of that memory or cherish it as a part of me forever. Is it a bad memory that brings up negative emotion, fills me with anger at myself or a person who did something to me?
Hope, Can you email me? There are some things I want to say in private. Sweetheart gets home around 11am and is off tomorrow...so my posting and checking time is limited. So I am not be able to resond immeditaely. He is back at work n Friday--and I may try to go to work...we'll see what the doctor says. But I check my email regularly...even if I don't have time to respond.
