When's it my turn?

[SDFoundGirl]

My last thread closed, so I figured I ought to start a new one. I have a lot of journaling I need to do. I'm feeling very much like a WAW right now. Despite MC and sharing my feelings about what *I* need to feel loved and ready for sex and respecting H's wishes for what he needs, I'm feeling upset and discouraged. We even made lists...and yet, H does none of it and expects me to be all gung ho for sex.

There's nothing wrong with my sex drive, I just don't want it with him. I feel like everything I've asked for has been ignored. It's not like we're new to piecing; it makes me angry that he's coasting now that HIS needs are being met.

We've spent several MC sessions on this, and nada. I'll bring it up AGAIN in our next session...and I'll get the same bewildered look.

Think I'll make myself scarce today....

SD

[Upside]

Hi SD-
I am new to this piecing thing, but I feel like I am feeling some of the same things you are. I see that you have been on this rollercoaster for a long time but just keep in mind that YOU said this just 2 months ago...

Patience, a commitment to stick with it even when times were tough, realising that it's not all about me, that there were many things H was going through (now pretty sure it was a mini MLC) that I really had no control over.

So, that being said, you need to keep focused on your goal. I understand your frustration and resentment. If you truly believe that your H had a "mini MLC" then it sounds like there isn't much you can do except be patient, make yourself happy and appreciate ANY positives you can get from your H. I'm certainly no expert and I am having my own difficulties practicing my own advise, but hopefully my thoughts help you in some way.

Hugs!

UD

[Jen_Jam]

Hi SD

I am so glad you started a new thread, I saw your old post, when i read it I felt like saying stick with it
then a few days later I went on a dip down and felt like saying Yeah leave now
Now I'm on a level and would like to post more but need to ask a few questions, if you don't mind.

It's interesting though that I was down then up then level - sounds just like a rollercoaster, doesn't it? Piecing still can be like that. On Friday I was sat outside my house on the mobile crying down the phone to Scott - who was an absolute STAR. I'd recommend catching up on his posts, he's turning into a DB god. Anyway - enoough on me, I will update on my own thread shortly.

Bcak to you. My questions are:

1. What is on your list
2. What is on H's list?
3. What have you beeen doing to fulfil the things on H's list?
4. What has H been doing to fulfil the things on your list?

and maybe the most important

5. What have you been doing to fulfil the things on your list?

To me it sounds like you'ge going round and round and getting nowhere ... maybe a differnt tack? If you don't mind, answering the questions may revale more

(ps sorry if I sound a bit weird, posting after a nice HUGE glass of Chardonay drunk in a very hot bubble bath)

I'm really interested in your sitch because a lot of what you've said sounded like my sitch. You've said that about me too ... sometimes the similarities have been SCAREY!!!! I wish we could meet up and compare notes, think we'd need a good few hours, but heigh ho can't get to the US until next year (cash shortage). I think my H went through a mini MLC and to be honest I think he's still in it. His latest thing is giving up smoking, which is GREAT, I am doing it too and want to. he feels he's getting older and needs to look after his health better. I will say it took H a LONG time to get back to anything apporaching normal, he's still not quite there yet and it's coming up for 2 years, FFS!!! Just saying if your H is in a similar place to mine you're going to have to give him more time. Re-read the bit about MLC in the DR book, Michelle has it spot on when she says that needing patience is an understanement.

OK - SD my wine is calling and I've blethered enough. Please post in a few more details ... cast your objective eye over the R and we'll put our cyberspace heads together (I'm sure Scott, Rob and Jeff will be along soon) and see if we can come up with some different perspectives.

Hang on in there (((((SD))))) ..... and I can thouroughly recommend a large glass of Chardonnay for you right now! LOL

[SDFoundGirl]

Hi Jen. I was hoping you'd post as I know your sitch and mine are freakishly similar. I've kind of gone through the same thoughts on your sitch as you have on mine...weird, huh?

Anyway, the lists came from an exercise our MC has been pushing us to do for months called "Caring Days." H has been "too busy" because of work (which just pisses me off as I'm just as busy and I watch him fock around all night with stupid crap) to do it until this past week. Even so, I've been paying attention to what he says he likes/wants/needs to give it to him.

The list is supposed to be things that are easily done that help you feel loved/connected to your partner. Strangely, many of my items are similar to H's, and in the past they haven't been a problem for him. Pre-bomb. Anyway:

*Make morning coffee
*Say "I love you" at times other than leaving in the morning or going to bed at night
*Hug me
*Kiss me passionately w/out pushing for sex
*Tell me I look nice
*Make breakfast on the weekend
*Scratch my back/touch me lovingly when we're sitting on the couch together in the evenings
*Ask me out on a date you've planned
*Text/call me during your work day just to say hi

As you can see, much of that is very words of affirmation and physical stuff, both of which are things he wants himself.

I guess my thing is, I resent that the only time I really get touched is when he's trying to get me into bed. I love yous only show up when he leaves in the morning. I've stopped initiating that phrase myself just to see what would happen...

Last night I posted after we f*cked. And I use that word deliberately because it was NOT ML. I should have just said no, but I caved, and I resented him for it. When he went to clean up and get ready for bed, I just sobbed. I felt forced, violated, and resentful. I tried to get out of it, but he just ignored my signals...and he DOES know them.

I don't want to ML to someone who is completely ignoring what I've asked him for. We even talked about in therapy why, though my sex drive was just fine, I was avoiding sex--specifically, feeling like my needs weren't being met.

So...I meet my own needs on making myself happy, but I can't meet my needs to feel connected to my spouse. THAT is a two way street. I'll bring this up in MC next time we go, but I kind of feel like there's no point. I'm working on our condo and hoping the market improves so if I decide to leave, we can sell the place easily.

He doesn't understand and thinks all should be just wonderful since he decided to recommit. I guess he's freaking perfect and ought to be worried 'round about Easter time. Just because I wasn't the WAS doesn't mean I was happy or didn't have problems with him in the M.

Anyway...that's it.

SD

[galing]

SD,

First big hugs girl. You are an amazing woman. Don't forget that.

I'm no expert but I'm going to give a few pieces of advice.
1. I'm sorry about the sex. I can relate to that feeling you are describing. It sucks. I want to remind you that you control you and have power over you. If you don't want to do it, don't. Don't wait for him to read your signals or rely on him to. Take yourself out of the picture if it isn't a picture you want to be in. Be in charge of you.
2. I can't imagine the frustration that goes with piecing. You have given and given and given and you now want him to start doing the same and making a great marriage. Seems like you are focusing a lot on the things he isn't doing right now (and maybe that is okay) but maybe it would help to focus on what he is doing to see if there is a lot he's doing ot meet your needs or that he thinks he's doing to meet your needs that you might be missing right now. Maybe make a list daily of what he is doing that is great and that is making you feel loved? I don't know... just a thought.

He does need to step up. Keep communicating honestly and opening regarding what you need and want and encouraging the things he is doing right and see what he does.

You rock SD!

Dana

[Rob1231]

Hi SD,

I'm very sorry the other night went so poorly for you. You are a wonderful, exciting, amazing woman who deserves better treatment.

First of all, about that night, I do wonder if there is sometimes truth to the old saw about Men have sex in order to feel love, and women need to feel love in order to want sex? Is it possible that, as badly as he's acting on this notion, he really is trying to get closer to you? I know you say it wasn't ML, and how bad you felt - but did H clue into any of that? Or did he roll over and go to sleep, thinking all was right with the world?

He doesn't understand and thinks all should be just wonderful since he decided to recommit. I guess he's freaking perfect and ought to be worried 'round about Easter time. Just because I wasn't the WAS doesn't mean I was happy or didn't have problems with him in the M.

Here's a question. Now, I'm just exploring an idea here - I'd say kick this thought around before you go right out and do this. But... what if you dropped a bit of a bomb on him?

I think back to the days before my bomb. Sure, somewhere deep down, I knew things weren't great. Sure, somewhere deep down, I knew I wasn't trying enough. But it took the bomb to shake me out of complacency and into action. Honestly, I don't know that anything much more "gentle" or much less drastic would have put me on the path I am on now. Certainly, not with the same fervor!

I guess I'm focusing on the statement He doesn't understand and thinks all should be just wonderful here. It sounds like he really doesn't get it how serious this stuff is to you, and how much potential trouble he and the M are in here. Maybe it's time to make that much more clear to him?

If H is blowing off the homework from the MC, I'd say it's time to call him on it. I agree with Dana, it's time at last for him to get in the game. You did all the hard work for a long, long time and got things to the point where he said he would recommit. OK, fine - maybe at the place you have reached, commitment doesn't just mean Gee, I guess I'll stick around after all. Maybe now commitment means I commit to work to become the husband you want and deserve. Get busy, buster!

[Jen_Jam]

Ok - quick one, thought about this last night. I remember making lists like these and they didn' really work for me and H.

How abou, in MC, you take the list with you, hold it up, then put it to one side and state VERY calmly that as YOU feel YOUR needs are not being met you have no inclination to work on H's list at this present time.

Then see what H and the C come up with - maybe a differernt approach?

I also agree very much with Dana in that looking for the positives can help. At times like this all we can see are the negatives, maybe it's time to go back and revisit the times we applauded he baby steps?

Rob's idea of a bomb ... well, I don't think threatening to be a WAW shold be done lightly, but I sat down with my H and talked of his LD, saying it was frustrating me and that if nothing ot done I would be at risk of having an affair, and I didn't want to do that. I suppose in a way it was a mini bomb.

So ... some good advice here, but I just think maybe Michelle wold say that these lists aren't working, so maybe it's a cheeseless tunnel? Maybe H needs to see you pull back a bit into your GAL mode. So he's "too busy" with work etc? Well, that's fine, you'll go hang out with your pals until he is ready. You certainly won't sit about moping and waiting for him to pull his thumb out of his backside and GET ON WITH IT!!!!

I fele your frustration, I really do. I still wish Michelle would write a book on Piecing, but in the meantime I am SO GLAD you're still here, it's good to have company in the Hall of Mirrors which Piecing is!!

(((((SD)))))

[SDFoundGirl]

Hi guys---

Thanks for your responses. I kind of read them and let them "marinate" for a while. I've been lurking a lot, doing little posting, and just taking the time to really ponder my sitch and figure out what's going on. I brought the whole situation up with the MC today, and it was incredibly empowering.

I told H exactly how I was feeling, how right now I had no interest in sex, and how I'd felt violated last time. Through the facilitation of the MC, I finally was able to explain (and H to see) how his job was interfering with making US a priority. I told him I felt like I wasn't important to him and neither was our R. I told him I felt like I'd learned that my M should always be my priority and I was doing so as a result of last summer's bomb. I also told him how I thought I felt a lot like him before he dropped the bomb on me.

So, essentially MC told him that if the M was important to him, that's what he'd place his time/energy on instead of work. And, though I didn't drop the bomb (It was sooooo tempting after you posted that, Rob!), I think H got the big hint that he's f&cking up and I want more from my M.

Will it effect a change? I don't know. That's up to H. I do know that unless he makes our M his priority, I'm not more than a year for the M. I'll give him a year--not to be perfect, but to be present and putting the M first--and then I'm gone.

I hope H chooses the M, but that's his choice to make. I suspect some of what is making this difficult to him is a mild MLC, but that's not an excuse. I'm about the same age and dealing with some of the same issues myself, and I still choose to put my M first.

I think that's fair. I also feel SO good that I've been able to say these things to H...I would have just hidden my feelings from him in the past because my feelings were less worthy in my mind. I feel empowered by DBing, by discovering who I am, and choosing rather than needing H.

I wonder how many piecing couples find themselves in this flip flop....

SD

[Rob1231]

So, essentially MC told him that if the M was important to him, that's what he'd place his time/energy on instead of work. And, though I didn't drop the bomb (It was sooooo tempting after you posted that, Rob!), I think H got the big hint that he's f&cking up and I want more from my M.

Hi SD, You did exactly what I had in mind. Wasn't advocating a Big Bomb ala "ILYBINILYW, We're Done", but a Little Bomb that says "Wake Up, Dummy - YOU ARE BLOWING IT RIGHT NOW." I hope he gets the message and things start to improve soon. Remember, now you are the Master and he is the Learner, so don't be afraid to share some of your hard-fought wisdom about growing and GALing and PMAing where it's appropriate.

[cat03]

I've pretty much gone the same way w/my H, his new job is very demanding and he's still in a "trial" position. I also felt most of his time went to the job and not to me. Problem is, a job defines a man, and if he doesn't pay enough attention to the details about his job he might loose it. It was hard for me to understand that, I felt last on his list always and would brought it up during C.

We agreed on waiting out the storm of the trial period, I've asked him also for the same physical/verbal affirmations you are. THe trouble is, when were are pouting and crying and telling them "you dont' say you love me!" , the *last* thing they feel like at that time is loving.

So, having been in your shoes the best I can say to you is RELAX. Withdrawing sex will *not* get you anything. For a woman to be in the mood for sex she has to feel a connection first, for a man, he has to have sex first and then the feelings of bonding come. If you didn't want to ML the other night you should've speak up instead of letting it happen and then give him a hard time afterwards. You can't expect him to guess you didnt' want to.
If there is one things thing I've learn through my ordeal is that you can't make the other spouse guess what's wrong w/you, to speak up and tell your S lovingly what is bothing you (same goes w/my H)

How do you want him to choose the M over his job? you need to be more specific than just say "it;'s me or your job" Does he bring work home? does he stay way late when he really doesnt' have to? make a reasonable list.

I dont' feel threaten by his job anymore, reading your post reminded me how alone I felt when he was away for months while training for it and his long hrs of school. It has gotten much better, and me giving him encouragment has ment a lot to him.

My H also vowed to say more ILY, (I asked him to) He still doesnt' do it often, but over all, every day he is a sweet person and wants to spend time w/me.

Be patient hon, take charge of your own happiness.