Okay .. after ANOTHER battle with husband I wrote this letter to him over the weekend. I am wondering if any of you would have feedback ,etc on this? .. Based on all of my previous rantings/concerns?? I am wondering if (maybe) this might be to "pressuring" of a letter? Will my H .. in his depression become even more furious with me and depressed with the situation?
Dear K.,
I wanted to follow up our conversation from Friday night with this letter. When we talk (just lately) and things become as heated (as they recently so often do) in my anxiety, I "lose" everything that I feel that I need/want to say.
Your consistent questions to me (from what I understand) .. Are what are my ulterior motives and why have I changed (seemingly) over night?
I know that this is going to sound like a broken record and you might just want to throw this letter in the fire right away .. but I'm hoping you'll bear with me. You might pull out just a bit more (understanding wise) out of this letter than what you understood from my verbal replies to you.
First off .. I have no ulterior motives.. Other than what I have already verbalized to you .. too many times.. I know. But hopefully you can read this through to give me (more of) a chance to explain .. Please?
You tell me that you can't understand what has changed in that we have always lived the way you are advocating living now. I guess the big answer is that I never perceived it the way you apparently do. When we were farming, you have to understand, I really did not understand our full financial situation .. until towards the end. By the time I "thought" I understood the full scope of our farming (financial) plight .. it was already said/done with and you were working (for a short time) for L.T. Being as young/naive as I was, I guess you could say that I did not know any different? Anyways .. in regards to living in the "robbing Peter to pay Paul mode" or using credit cards a lot, that was the only time period that I remember living "that way".
In 1987 you went on to establish T.C. (their contracting business) with B. and we purchased/moved to the house on Wville. It was during that time (although we probably didn't realize it) that our lives were, in my opinion (finance-wise) pretty worry free. After our previous financial problems, you told me that you had learned a lot. During this time period you were a very strong advocate of not going into debt. You impressed upon me the demise of people who used credit cards/spent money they did not have. You not only enabled us to pay our monthly mortgage and this 40 acre property payment, back then.. but, if there was anything "extra" that we needed/wanted you took care of it because of the monies you brought in with all of your hard work in working T.C. (his contract business). You purchased our family's jet-ski, you enabled us to go on our Brazil trip, and on and on and on! Up until three years ago, your T.C. draws paid our mortgage AND you took care of everything "extra" .. Including whenever we traveled, ate out ,etc..
It was three years ago that (in my opinion) things drastically changed. .. And from what I understand (NOW) from your last words to me Friday night, it is because while working the large jobs you lost all of the bread and butter jobs to B. (husband's partner) that you and B. had accumulated together. You can't work on/bid the larger jobs because you are not able to (alone) get the jobs done on the timetable that is required. .. And B. has all of the other bread and butter jobs that you used to regularly work on. The situation as it is, was very frustrating and depressing for you. Understandably so!!
It was at about this time that you began seeing Dr. C. and he put you on a whole new medication regimen. After being on that (for about six months) you began to frequent the bar nightly. My perception of what evolved back then .. is that because of your extreme frustrations (and because of that .. worsening depression) with the situation; you sought the escape that the alcohol gave you. You spent more nights at the bar than you did at home. In my and Dr. C's opinion.. You were obviously self-medicating.
I know you don't believe me K., but it was when you began to drink heavy that your whole mind-set changed. Thus, I believe that it is the alcohol that is making you believe that your (financial) options are so limited. You think I am making too big of deal out of your drinking. I know you know better than that. My goodness, you spent (average) $1100 a month on bar expenses when we had the refi monies. $1100 is a big part of our mortgage payment. I know you feel like this is owed to you .. but wouldn't you agree that this is way too much money to spend consistently on drinking? Wouldn"t you agree that this would indicate a problem?
Our new mortgage balance is now WAY more than two years ago. When we refinanced, both times, you went into detail about how you were going to work more and bring in more money and you told me that (more than likely) we wouldn't need the monies to "fall back on" to pay the monthly mortgage. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and agreed totally with you. I did this because I love you and I trust all that you tell me. I had past history to look back on to know that you wouldn't steer us wrong and believed that you would continue in that direction.
I'm sure that you will remember several times (over the past three years) whereby I tried to bring up the fact that I couldn't understand why you weren't working more. We still had refinance monies to fall back on, but I was becoming increasingly concerned/worried that you were not working (not anywhere near as much as you used to, anyway's). Even the kids began asking me if you worked any more. All they could see was that you were home all of the time. Please know that I don't bring this up now to be mean or throw it in your face or anything.. I just wanted you to know that my concern over you working (for financial gain) is not new. Nor is my concern over our whole financial picture. I, over the past couple of years, tried to bring it up on several different occasions.. But (in my opinion) it always ended up disastrous.. you would get very mad, more depressed etc. So .. things just continued on as they were. We continued using the refi account for our mortgage payments and all drinking/travel/"extras" monies was pulled out of that account. My income did not/can not cover any extras. You can see that by the attached spreadsheet.
A couple of months back you made the comment to me that you could not believe that we let our mortgage debt get so high. You made the comments that you could not understand what happened .. Where did all the money go? You also made the comment that you had previously thought this land would be your retirement. You said all of these things to me when you were extremely agitated, when you learned how low our refinance account was. Then, within the half-hour you were talking to me about refinancing again and wanting to sell what property we could. Your viewing the refinancing/selling off property as your only options IS where the "shoe pinches" between us.
I agree that the situation in where the "money is" with T.C. is not a good one for you/us .. And can totally understand that you would be frustrated/depressed about this. But, it"s been three years and in my opinion, it's time to figure something out. I know I've said this before, but I don't agree (in any way, shape or form) that you are "done" working. I believe that you could figure out anything .. IF you want it badly enough. (You have shown me that time and time again!) Gosh K. .. you are a VERY hard worker .. I see that all of the time .. why not apply it to something that you can (at least more or less) count on (on a monthly basis) and build up even more equity in our beautiful 40 acres?
I am just throwing this out there .. but with the way the economy is why couldn't you find someone (there are so many right now!) that would be more than thrilled to get some in-between jobs.. to help you out .. so that you CAN bid on a larger job? I can just bet that there would be some laid-off /unemployed person that would be very happy to work for you temporarily. Goodness, S. was available and the economy wasn't even as bad as it is now! I believe that if you bid a larger job you would be able to find just about anyone that would be willing to work on your terms. Why not check it out?
If you don't like that idea .. why not come up with another plan? Do you truly feel (as you come across) that all is lost, as far as a regular monthly income from T.C.? I believe that you are too young and have too much (STILL) to offer to NOT capitalize on all of your attributes and make your retirement (and current!) financial future so much brighter! Don't let your frustrations and depression dictate what you can or can't do! For your sake and your children's sake, can't we live life to the fullest without having to count on living off the equity of our property .. until we truly become of retirement age? I know that you know that it would be worth so much more if we could hold on to our property.
I am 49 years old. Too close to 50, 60 or 70.. for that matter. I believe that if you and I can persevere for 12 more years or so, we could be so much the better off for it .. without selling off the property ..as you are advocating.
..But you would have to establish some form of monthly income. You probably don't like that last sentence.. I know .. I don't see the obstacles that you see. That is so terribly frustrating for you .. I see that! But I haven't lost faith in what you are able to do, K. You exhibit (what you are truly made of) every day with anything that you tackle. Be it working on your Harley, working on fixing your air compressor, or ANYTHING! And you exhibit that you haven't really lost your physical stamina by all the terribly hard work you are currently doing with the logging!
I realize that what you are currently doing will provide quite a lot of money .. ultimately. Believe me when I say that I think that is awesome. But what about after that? I worry about that kind of stuff too much. I don't want to have to worry about how the mortgage payment is going to be made every month. I want it to be (at least .. more or less) like it used to be.
As you can see, if you look at our monthly expense worksheet, there is not too much wiggle room. I mentioned once that I would try to put away $100 a paycheck so that I could pay our summer property taxes. (Due in September) So when I balk about using this money for going out/entertainment .. now you know why. The same with using the credit card. As you use the credit card, that monthly payment will shoot up. We can't afford it. Thus comes my attitude (however wrong you might think it is) that if we don't have it, we just can't spend it. .. And that is because, it is adding a monthly financial obligation that I can't meet with just my income.
.. And what am I trying to say? K, I love you and ALWAYS will .. And as long as you have the best interests of "us" and our family as your main concern, I will always be supportive in whatever you do.
Love,
TTU
P.S. I need to/want to mention that I totally admire the persistence/shrewdness you exhibited in purchasing our 40 acres. I know that I was totally wrong about not wanting to go through with that deal. I guess I was very afraid to go into any more debt (after the, at that time, all too recent farming situation) and also when talking about purchasing it .. you mentioned "farming" and that totally scared me! I understand that is neither here nor there now. I just wanted you to know/understand that I DO realize that it is because of YOU that we have what we have today. We have (in my opinion) the best, most beautiful property/home .. that also has great financial return potential.
Okay .. I know that this is probably way too long to expect you all to read .. giving you more info than I should .. but I just felt like I needed to "include" all that I could to get the best feedback ..
They cannot reason with you while in MLC or drinking heavily and no matter what you say/do, they take it the wrong way and you will add more fuel to the fire.
Just my .02 worth.
Last edited by steelersfan; 08/13/0703:47 PM.
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
Well .. I guess I opted for the letter 'cause I have had success in the past, communicating with him this way. I have better luck .. )'cause of how overwhelmed I get when I argue with my H) with putting my thoughts down on paper.
I DO know that it is way too long .. but I felt I needed to go into that detail.
First let me say that I appreciate a person who admits to ranting and raving.
Your H seems completely content with the notion of dragging you down. If you don't out a stop to it, no one else will. Do you recognize that. I agree with SF, this letter will do nothing. At some point in time, you are going to have to make a decision to change your situation. You really not need to put a stop to nonsense. He is running up the bills and he will leave you holding the bag. That is not love.
First let me say that I appreciate a person who admits to ranting and raving.
Hi IMP,
Are you referring to my previous post or my (last) letter post?
... I know I DO an awful lont of ranting and raving .. don't I? Probably because I'm feeling so powerless?
Quote:
You really not need to put a stop to nonsense. He is running up the bills and he will leave you holding the bag. That is not love.
Yes, I know that you are right about it all needing to stop. I *thought* that if I could get my H to understand where I am coming from that he would "get it". Well .. he goes back and forth. At one time he'll act like he DOES understand and I think that he will "abide" by what we discussed and then he totally reverts back to his previous mindset.
.. And then I think, "How come I can't understand where he is coming from?" He made several comments to me in our Friday night argument about how I have changed dramatically. He (of course) told me how absolutely b*tchy I've become. He says that I have never EVER been as bad as I have been over the past month or so. I have been hard on him, trying to constantly "hold my ground" on my limiting the money he spends stance.
H maintains that "we" have always lived the way he is advocating (I guess? .. didn't quite get that one) so why have I changed so now? The only thing I can think of that would relate to his thinking here is that I did not complain .. tell him that he could not spend our money to drink, when he was working and bringing in money. I have commented to him before in our discussions that I knew that I could not control how much he drank but I absolutely had to put some controls on his spending to drink....
Sigh .. I know ... I MUST do something different. H is leaving for a longer bike weekend with a buddy of his on Thursday.
I have typed and deleted and typed and deleted a sentence here about six different times. Something about putting in into actual words that scares me. Let's just say it has something to do with if I could ever (would ever) get the gall to move out .. even for a while. I was thinking that this longer weekend might be the ideal time ..
..If I can't put my foot down to H, how in the world can I make the decision to move out!???
Sheesh! Don't you just hate wishy-washy people!!??
I sure do appreciate your checking in on me! I'm sorry I have not responded/posted sooner. I work in adminstration of our local public school and with school almost starting .. well, things have been more than hectic. I get home (usually) totally exhausted.
That said .. (and I say this with EXTREME caution) there have been some improvements in our situation.
A couple of weeks ago .. a week after our last huge blowout and after walking around (for a week) not really "talking" and H constantly referring to "D", he finally broke down (more or less) one night and told me he would do what I wanted (?) .. "What do you want?" ..were his exact words to me.
I rehashed all that I've already relayed here (over and over again .. I know!) and he finally said that he would get back to work.
For the past two weeks, H has been spending more time at home. He spent his evenings up at the bar on Friday, Saturday and Sunday (Sunday because of a weekly biker night). "We" even went to the bar together on Wednesday .. to (in H's infamous words) "To get a bite to eat" .. And that IS basically all we did. We both had dinner, two drinks and then went home. (I was totally shocked/surprised!) I did my best not to show that and have been constantly telling him how much I like it that he is home with me .. so much more.
I accompanied him to his pdoc appt this morning (with H's okay) and what he finally "revealed" (although I don't think he realizes this) is that he does not enjoy working in the building contracting business any more. He FINALLY "mentions" this after wading through tons of excuses as to why he hasn't been working. He tells his doc that he does not have the "wherewithal" that he used to, to work. I ask him about all of the other stuff that he does that requires extreme physical stamina .. and that kind of caught him off-guard. Finally .. towards the end of the appt. he brings up the fact that he does not enjoy working his business any longer. The other things.. such as his trapping and the current logging that he is doing, are both things that he says he enjoys. So .. major question in my mind now .. is what can be done about that? Is his lack of enjoyment, in working the business that he has built for the past twenty years, because of his depression? .. And/or should he be looking for something else to do .. ?
He also brought up the fact that he can't work the "big jobs" because he doesn't have the help that he used to have .. to get those bidded big jobs done on a timely basis. I reminded him that because of the economy being as it is now (so MANY people out of work) that he would probably have no trouble at all finding someone to help him out .. temporarily. He conceded that Yes, he has been thinking about that.
I'm guessing because I felt "safe" in his pdoc's office, I opened up a little bit more as to my thoughts on our situation .. knowing full well that H couldn't (wouldn't) blow up in front of his doctor. Hopefully I won't have to endure any repercussions from H when I get home tonight.
H's pdoc asked me if I thought that H could/would endure another two months with even more improvements in his drinking/working situation. I said that because we have never been where we are right now .. I was "hoping" he could and I would be there supporting him all the way. H took this as a negative answer. He did not like it (at all) that I didn't say something to the effect of "Yes, absolutely, I believe he will." So .. wondering if I messed up there .. probably should have been more "positive"?
Anyway .. in a nutshell (yeah ..right!!) this is what has been happening in our situation. There is more .. but I've already written another book .. so I best sign off for now.
