What's going on in her head? Anyone?

[AmbientCoast]

I'm at a bit of a loss here, and wondered if anyone can shed some light on this for me...

I'm 33, my wife is 38, we've been married for 2 1/2 years, together for 7 1/2 in total.

We have two kids, S6 and D3.

I love her more than I can put into words, and she is the most gorgeous woman in the world. Really.

But... we haven't had sex for 2 whole years.

Now for some background... for our first two/three years together, sex was was really good, it happened often, and it was regular. Then with two kids in the picture, frequency dropped off. And off. And off.

Around 12 months ago (after we'd had some pretty bad luck with me losing the biggest business contract I had - I'm self employed - and some serious personal joint debt) I discovered my wife was having an online EA with someone 14 years younger than herself, and who lives abroad. Shortly afterwards, I got the ILYBINILWY speech, and she moved out into a rented room leaving me with our two kids, then aged 5 and 2.

I then discovered she'd flown out to meet the EA Kid for a weekend after she moved out, although this happened only once and judging by the emails I sneakily read from this kid to her afterwards, it wasn't the most 'perfect' of weekends, and she didn't do it again. As predicted to me by many of her family and friends, the whole EA fizzled out pretty quick and she definitely isn't in contact with him any more, although the whole thing hurt me more than anything else ever has.

Anyway, around 4 months after she moved out, we decided that we could make a fresh start and be a family again, she apologised for what had happened, and she moved back in with us.

Since then, things really have been a lot better than they were before she moved out. She's told me that she's happier than she's been in a long time, I know I'm happier than I've been in a long time, too, and our marriage seems really strong now - and it's great to hear her make plans for us and get excited about our future all over again.

Yet there's still no real interest in sex on her part.

Now, it's not that there's no physical contact at all. We sit snuggled up on the couch virtually every night we spend together in the house, she asks me for foot rubs most nights, she *loves* it when I play with her hair, we hold hands when we're out (could be initiated by either one of us), we kiss on the lips every morning before she leaves for work, she likes it when I cheekily grope her occasionally round the house, we hug a lot, and in bed she lets me lie tight behind her, cuddle her, and press right up against her so that she *knows* damn well what kind of mood I'm in. She even presses back against me - and no, not in a 'pushing me away' kind of way.

But arrrrgh! That's where it stops. She just will not let me take things any further, no matter what I do. I'm not allowed to touch her intimately in bed (however, playfully grabbing her boobs around the house is OK - huh?), although stroking her neck, and ears and hair in bed, and whispering things right up against the back of her neck awhile we lie there are all fine, and I can tell she likes it - and maybe even gets a little aroused - when I do so.

But she *always* wears some kind of PJs in bed, and occasionally sweatpants and a top, and it's almost like I'd need a pair of bolt-cutters to pry them off her. Jeez.

The closest we've been to anything sexual recently was a couple weeks ago when we were lying in bed one morning and she asked me if I'd go get something for her - a book or something - from downstairs. I playfully said "no, I'd like you to *get it*", with the emphasis on 'get it' and she kinda said "would you now?", and grabbed me and started playing with me for a few minutes until we heard the kids stirring. And that was the end of that.

However, I've arranged at least 2 nights recently where the kids have been staying with grandparents, neither of us have had work the next day, and we've been able to go out and have a really good night together. But still no dice.

I've always been slightly more physically affectionate than her, but that's not to say she isn't affectionate to me, because she can be - both around the house and even moreso when there are other people around.

It's just that in two years, it has never, ever led to anything even remotely sexual, apart from the 'lying in bed behind her' thing, which is nice, but it just drives me absolutely crazy. It's also starting to make me feel a little anger and a lot (A WHOLE LOT!) of rejection.

I have tried to talk to her about all this from time to time, and her reactions range from being super PO'd with me, to silence, to changing the subject, to just the other day saying that "sex isn't important to [her]" and that I "knew what [she] was like so I shouldn't expect anything" or words to that effect.

I lay awake most of the following night thinking about that and to be honest, it's absolute nonsense, because I *do* know what she was like - and sex was a big part of both our lives before the kids.

So what can I do, except for carrying on as I am doing and hope that eventually, she finds her drive again?

Or does anyone have any educated guesses about what her issues might be? Medical? Psychological? Self-esteem? Kids?

Or am I just even imagining that there's a problem?

I know I'm not in anywhere near as bad a position as some people on this board, but it's getting bad enough for me to start thinking that I may not be able to live like this for much longer. And I hate feeling like that.

I'd be really grateful if someone could offer some advice - so thanks in advance!

[chocolateeyes]

Ambient,

I'm probably not the best one to post, as my wife and I haven't made love in 3 years, and only about twice in the past 5 years. My situation is remarkably similar to yours (she used to be high-desire, but it stopped after kids; she's attracted to younger men; it takes an act of Congress to get her aroused, etc.) but with one MAJOR difference:

Ours is a totally AFFECTIONLESS marriage, whereas with you guys, the touch and affection and even some flirtation seems to be there, and then it never goes anywhere from there.

That tells me that she has some purely SEXUAL issues, and you should set up an appt. with a sex therapist, in my opinion. If she won't go, go alone, and get some help for yourself, and then INSIST that she go with you the next time, and play the "for the sake of the kids' future" card if you have to.

Do you know if there was any sexual abuse in her past, or anything strange in the sexual relationship between her parents?

I do wish you well. It sucks to be here.

Chocolateeyes

[AmbientCoast]

That tells me that she has some purely SEXUAL issues

Yeah, kinda what I've been thinking. There's never been any mention of abuse or anything like you suggest, though, although I guess these things don't often get aired.

and you should set up an appt. with a sex therapist, in my opinion.

Heh, I'd be spending the evening down at the ER if I even tried to suggest that to her. Seriously, though, we're emailing each other at work as I write this, and I'm flirting like crazy (if there was a national flirting team, I'd be on it) and she's kinda only half-deflecting my attempts as usua.... ah, nope, she's just told me that she has a splitting headache.

Foiled again.

Curses.

Thanks for the reply. Just read your thread and I hope you work it out, too.

[wakingupat51]

AC, for me (been married over 25 yrs) affection and intimacy changed dramatically after the 2nd baby was born. Before that things were great. I think the kids played a big part in our issues - only because we were both so dedicated to them and worried they would hear us, etc. That is unfortunate and has festered in our R now for many years - something we just never corrected and now he wants a D. There's never been anyone else for either of us but I know that intimacy is a big part of our problems. Of course H says I rejected HIM and I say it was him, but that's besides the point now. There are 2 sides to every story.

I think it's great that you are looking to take action on this matter now in your M. You both need to or you will be in for a very unhappy M or worse yet D. If I had to do it again, I would definitely have talked openly with my H and/or sought out some sort of counseling.

Definitely do something post haste. Don't let it fester.

[AmbientCoast]

You both need to or you will be in for a very unhappy M

Yep, I can feel the seeds of an unhappy M beginning to grow already. The SSM book was delivered this morning, so I'm taking a look at that right now...

Anyone got any tips on persuading your LD partner to read it too?? And some stories on how they reacted to it??

[RedHeadWife]

Ok, AC, coming from the W's point of view -- this was me for many years. I would become defensive and angry if H tried to talk to me about stuff too, including the S life which was pretty much nonexistant. No desire on my part, could live w/o it.

I had no clue about the "rejection" part of it and that is so very important. I didn't realize what I was doing to H by not wanting to have sex. For me, I was tired, didn't want to take the time, etc. I didn't realize what we were foregoing or I was foregoing and that was the intimate side of our R which was obviously lacking.

I understand that she may get angry, etc., but what I needed was a good slap upside the head. You need to try to get her to understand the depth to which she is hurting you and explain the feelings of rejection you are getting. She is most likely NOT getting any of this and does not understand what she's really doing to you and your R/M.

[AmbientCoast]

I understand that she may get angry, etc., but what I needed was a good slap upside the head. You need to try to get her to understand the depth to which she is hurting you and explain the feelings of rejection you are getting. She is most likely NOT getting any of this and does not understand what she's really doing to you and your R/M.

Thanks Cadesmom... that's good insight that I'll definitely try to act on. I appreciate you taking the time to tell me what it's like from the other side of the fence, as it were.

I should get you to call my W and tell her the same!! Heh.

In all honesty, though, I actually think she's *totally* oblivious to what this is doing to me. She's always been a little selfish about a lot of things - something her family have always joked about... there's a couple segments in the book that I've read this afternoon that I think would make her sit up and take notice...

[NOPkins]

Hi, AC.

Just a couple of quick questions to cover the basics.

Have both of you had full panel STD testing done?

What is your wife's attitude about her affair?

-NOPkins-

[AmbientCoast]

Have both of you had full panel STD testing done?

That thought didn't even run through my mind, but no, we haven't.

What is your wife's attitude about her affair?

She's sorry and regretful (but has never been one for big apologetic gestures), she was embarrassed about it (this was obvious in the way she acted towards her family and friends), and she is still quite uncomfortable talking about it - at least to me.

One of the things she did say to me just before she moved out was that she thought that maybe she was going through 'some kind of life crisis'. EAs/PAs with younger people were always something she got pretty mad at whenever someone she knew began one - it happened at least once to friends of ours, so it was kinda strange that she ended up doing it herself...

Any thoughts? (And thanks for the reply!)

[NOPkins]

Hi, AC.

You tell her that you expect her to be tested, and you go as well. Also tell her that you will want to see the ORIGINAL report from her test (never a copy). You can't trust her on this, she has already cheated on you.

It is important to get you both tested, but in addition, her behavior is odd enough that I am wondering if she didn't pick up herpes or a bad case of HPV. It is like she is sexual up to a point but that you can't touch her vaginally. It just sounds odd, and odd is often indicative of a secret.

Also, are you sure that the affair has not continued emotionally?

All the best,
-NOPkins-