I think it will be a wonderful adventure, great times and an exciting experience for all - regardless of whether you stay there or not
Enjoy!!!
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
J, you will make a killing at the stand up comedy places.
I am different, as I say, your H was not himself, when he did all this. Yes he may of been selfish, but now he is realizing very slowly, but surely, that he made a mistake.
It will be the J show you when you get to Alaska, not the H show.
You know what is great about all of this?
You have a CHOICE. You can CHOOOSE to stay or to go.
Yes all the headache of packing and unpacking and moving and relocating.
But dang it, Thank God you are able to do that. You are able to go anywhere, and get a job, lawyer, or comic. You are able to hold your head up high, and said I came, i saw, I conquered.
Honey, go, enjoy yourself, see what good things Alaska may have that is new.
I am going to Alaska, when I dunno, but soon, and I'll come visit
See, all better now
“Pray as though everything depended on God. Work as though everything depended on you.”
thanks for listening and chiming in. I really appreciate it. Maybe I'd feel more comfortable if everyone chimed in saying "GO!" or "STAY!" but the truth is that there is conflict and debate and that's why you guys airing things does clarify for me.
So you know, although I have a law degree, I also have most of a Master's in Drama and my passion is theater and film. I've performed in a few films (nothing you'd know yet, sorry) and a 100 plays, done stand up at the Comedy Store (near where Phil Specter picked up the woman he later murdered....gee, that isn't so funny) the Improv, Laugh Factory--Lissett come on out here b/c YOU have a place to stay if you want to do some stage time there....I MEAN IT TOTALLY----so, I prefer this side of life greatly and if I could make half the money, hell, really ANY decent money, I'd only do that. My law practice was 100% based on others' conflicts and that can get old and ugly....
Bethm--BND and I have talked elsewhere about this so I don't think she was referring to you personally about your M, or being negative. My family is divided on the issue and not all that helpful. But don't be mad at BND, I'm almost positive she was talking about others, okay?
I know that if H remains in a very selfish phase, or engages in ANY deceit again, I'll very likely leave him --without looking back. Believe it or not, I find that reassuring. I'm just not as afraid of being alone as I used to be. I can see the real advantages of h not being here, and it's more than chick flicks and having the toilet seat down....
He does seem to be changing, or as my mc (the mc knows h) says, "he wants to change-wants to 'get it'."
I am also doing lots of "motivational checks" in that I want to make sure whatever choices I make are made for good loving reasons. Not punitive. "Teaching him a lesson" and "letting him suffer the consequences" are so tempting and have run through my mind so many times. But that's not really how I want to live. By doing what I really believe is best for d9, I think I am also doing what is best for me, and modelling for my older children a legacy of forgiveness and commitment. I think that's best for me too. In the long run. If I end up at age 90 thinking I made a choice that I knew wasn't best for d9, for MY own reasons, I will feel that I failed as a mother and then, nothing else I do will ever matter much.
Many doctors are what I call the "working spoiled" (not you FIB!!) b/c they work so hard and for so long, relentlessly crappy hours, they do seem to feel they deserve all the "other" stuff, I suppose. And I bought into that for a long time. Hard to compete with a heart transplant. But I also believed in him; he is a good doctor and it beats thinking he's "working late" at a bar with some skank ho...
But then as a doctor's wife, for every night H was on call, I tucked our kids in and went to an empty bed. For over a DECADE. And for each night h came home so tired he fell asleep on the floor of the living room, only to have me and the kids cover him with a blanket, it was like having a drunk h without the shame. Just, not really there, even when he was. Sex was rare, although good when he was rested--for years, that was NOT often...he was and still is a passionate man and when we're on the dance floor, even now, he moves me...literally and figuratively, and emotionally. We have a strong connection. Though it has been strained. For a long time, many couples envied our M and told us so. Said we made such a good team.
As for his choice to leave Veterinary medicine, I agreed at the time b/c who wouldn't? We had no kids and no idea what we were getting into. But then, our first child was born 8 weeks before med school started...and law school had a semester left. Don't know how we did that. To be frank, I can honestly say that No matter what h earns there, or anywhere, and what he has earned in the past, I don't think his choice to go into human medicine was worth it to me. Or the kids. When he was a veterinarian, life was better for us as a couple....Definitely...(sigh) I wouldn't marry a doctor again, unless he was very very unusual.
I THINK h feels that fidelity demonstrates his..."husbandness" (?). He also didn't feel my reasons for not wanting to live up there were "rational" b/c Anchorage was so different, and the money was sooo good, blah blah blah.
Recently, it has come to my/his attention, I believe, that HE may have had some irrational obsessive tendencies b/c his contract has some weird vague clauses (I don't think he's getting screwed, btw) that unnerve him and I'm thinking, "Hello?? I"m a L and TOLD YOU THIS A YEAR AGO!!" And oh, btw, there are plenty of opportunities here and other places...so, who was irrational and who was objective? Does it matter? Is this about being "right" or being happy?
That's another weird MLC thing. He honestly doesn't seem to remember details like the contract's problems that I pointed out. Sure sure, some of it is denial. I get that. But I SWEAR sometimes he seems genuinely surprised at things he said at the time, or didn't say, or missed.....Christ, where was he?
It's as if the very thing that makes him good in the operating room (focus to the extreme, stays calm in chaos, codes, etc) makes him lousy in objectively analyzing something he wants. He couldn't see a real down side to his choices, except for MY stubborness, etc. Had blinders on.
It's my hope that his blinders are off now. He told me he is "lonely every single day" and he sounded a bit desparate about it. Early fall He asked me to come up every time we spoke and said "begging" about 5 times. Last October he had started saying the loving things, and also sounded DEPRESSED as hell, as his 50th b-day approached....I think he'd be alone or with his heroes, who are ALL married... so I surprised him for a quick trip (returned in 48 hrs for d18's Homecoming dance...) to be there for his 50th. I liked that it was my choice and he had nothing to do with it. (Plus, heroes were reminded that I exist...in case the fans didn't know, I like to remind them too). The surprise worked well, and h was so touched he cried...really. I was taken aback by that. He said it was the best birthday gift I could have given him.
It IS hard/weird to forgive something you don't "get". And saying you forgive, even when you mean it, is a hell of a lot easier than doing it...but I'll keep working on it. DB coach said try, TRY, to treat it as if he was in Iraq or some place I can forgive or grasp. I think that's what she said, better go read my notes. BTW, it helps me to talk to the DB people b/c they're so specific. She also said not to be surprised if I find MYSELF in a MLC once up there. Suggested I mandate doing some theater or comedy or structure an activity to keep my creative side active. Can't do a 60 hour work week for the heroes/home team and have fun. FWIW, they've offered me a job I'd never get here for at least 10 years, but it's in law, not the arts...and they want me to be a warrior, which feels like the old me...
H loves me, and our children. But he's a human and he has limitations and that's another dimension to all this, isn't it? What can we live with and what can we not? Guys, I KNOW he has been selfish. I hope he can change that enough for me to want to be with him. I do see him differently and I do feel differently, though there is still love.
Thing is, IF our spouses are selfish, or whiny or have some other defect in character, does it MANDATE change or a divorce? Some defects, like violence, are obvious. But when a person who historically DID sacrifice things, becomes a taker, I am not so sure. And when a person has a flaw that won't change, what about letting some things slide?
My vision of our past is also clouded. I once said h was the hardest working man I've ever known and that's still true. But while I used to admire it, now I don't so much AND the sacrifices, now seem narrowly focussed or for him mostly. Oh, to be sure, he's had some great moments. My father's death--h helped me a lot. Coached kid's team in Alaska, and played with them every WAKING moment....honestly seemed nourished by their company and would run to greet them, as they did for him.
He certainly believed in My career a bit much really. In case My earlier post was confusing--h said in his MLC peak, that I should be a) in the US senate by now, or b) have my own sitcom. His "faith" in me is flattering and it's also very pressuring and I've told him to stop setting me up for failure. Can I just be funny and NOT make money with it? I also write well and have had some articles published. NO, that does NOT mean I will write and publish the world's greatest novel. Some of my best attributes were sort of held against me as I did not "accomplish" great things with my talents and thereby underachieved..... These are things we've been better able to discuss. He says he just wants me to choose, or clarify and not go in different directions, but I've said that's not his choice....(and yet, I kind of want that clarity too...) He has backed off, and admitted that he's "shoveled out a heck of a lot of criticism" my way...UNPRECEDENTED admission, unprompted.
H also scheduled his vacation around the kid's schedules this year: UNPRECEDENTED....gotta give him a hand when he gets it right. Baby steps.
Please don't underestimate the value of having both parents in the home for d9. She has fun with h, although for obvious reasons, she and I are closer. She is a tomboy, so that will help. Sometimes she is excited about going there, but always with the idea that it's temporary. I have to think like that, or I'll give up.
BTW, h asked d9 what size the biggest fish she ever caught was, since h fished "often" (less than 20 times total, but it's something...) with our older two children.
D9 said, "Dad, I've never been fishing..." H was shocked and embarrassed. He said he's going to make it up to her, and I believe him.....but then, I wonder, WHEN did he think he'd done these things with her? And how can he possibly expect d18 to feel close to him? Has he written her off as being too late? Too much work for him? I have shared with him some of her most painful comments, which he just could not seem to hear a year ago. Now, he says he is haunted....coming out of the tunnel? Hears things now that he didn't hear then. I KNOW I said them, trust me on that.
Piecing-TIPS from DB coach---- since I know there will be some friction as h adjusts to being with us and we adjust to being with him, I've mentioned that he cannot walk in and "take over" as if he was here yesterday. I know Navy guys who leave for 9 months at a time and always are briefed on their returns home, to "take your time, don't bark out orders, and ease back into the family" so I'll approach it that way.
Still, despite all this, I know there will be benefits for d9 being with h, and seeing us together, despite the upheaval. She remembers our last move and that it took her a month or two to really find any friends. Hard, but she did it. So, PMA steps to take-- for now, my pma has gone up a little. I'll start a list of what IS good about Alaska: (Lissett and all, feel free to contribute to this list if you think of anything I've missed....)
Good stuff about the tundra, I mean, ALASKA----
1) Once there, I will instantly go up 2 levels in looks, b/c I shave my legs and my BMI is under 50..(wait, I won't have to shave my legs....) that should make me an EASY 10...
2) dut to a shortage of dentists, it's a compliment there to say "Hey, nice tooth". Thus, my teeth will be Hollywood bright and beautiful, without flossing.
3) I will weigh less than all the other women (except the new Governor, who is strangely attractive...considering),
4) the talent pool is shallow, so I will be a BIG fish with a big brain and a big law degree (wait, since when is being a lawyer a social asset??) and big breasts and other such things, in a tiny pond....(did I just write that?)
5) truthfully, it IS beautiful where we'll be living... when I can see outside, that is .....the darkest period will be in December with 5 hours of daylight, (compared to less than 3 hours at Christmas time in Fairbanks, and that actually IS a big diff when you're there).. Oh wait!!!! I'll be down HERE in sunny California for most of December...oh YEAH....no discussion there.....geez, I forgot for a minute. There are airplanes...
6) I do not have to worry about being less tanned than the "beautiful" people here in Los Angeles, as I will BE THE beautiful people there....
((((geez, hope glenda in alaska isn't reading this--but I've never seen her in person so really how can she be offended??????......)))) and for now,
last but not least---(drum rolls)
7) there are no spiders or snakes there.
So.... this is a start. Thanks for the input guys, keep it comin! j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
BETH M Get over yourself. I don't even know who you are and know nothing about you, I have not read your threads and this is not the first time you or your "friends" have attacked me, and there is no reason for it. Leave me alone. J is my friend, and this is something we have been discussing for the past year. Get it? Got it? Good.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
This attractive, articulate, California Babe, who moves to Alaska and lures others to follow you...
I will share with you something I sent to Chica earlier in the week, because I think it applies to your sitch, the letting go of one life and the prospect of what is ahead:
"In one of the gospel parables, the rich man is mulling over his treasures, and plans to build even bigger barns to store all his crops. He relishes his security: My soul, you have plenty of good things laid by for many years to come. Jesus reflects: A man's life is not made secure by what he owns. As we grow quiet in prayer, our hearts can be invaded in the same way by false securities. In the measure that my heart is in past treasures, I am fossilised and dead, for life is only in the present. So to each of these past treasures I am grateful yet I say goodbye, explaining that, grateful though I am that it came into my life, it must move out, or my heart will never learn to love the present."
I asked you those questions because I wanted you to think about your feelings. What's the payoff for J? It was good to hear that you know exactly what's up with him. You don't sugar coat things as I once did, so you're a step ahead of me in that respect. No matter what you choose you are in for a lot of work. You know that I wish you the best and hope for only good things for you and your children.
I absolutely agree that children need both of their parents but we have to remember not to lose a piece of ourselves along the way. So continue to be true to yourself and you'll be fine.
I still see your husband in a not so bright light. Maybe I'm just jaded from seeing so many good people coming out of this with something other then they had originally thought. I know now that there is no wrong or right way to deal with this. We're all human and we do the best we can.
So you know, although I have a law degree, I also have most of a Master's in Drama and my passion is theater and film. I've performed in a few films (nothing you'd know yet, sorry) and a 100 plays, done stand up at the Comedy Store ...... My law practice was 100% based on others' conflicts and that can get old and ugly....
So, I know part of the issue of moving to Alaska for you is it feels like giving up that dream and being "forced" back into law, is that right? Can you consider that getting back into the working world will give you the power and autonomy that you feel have been missing in this R for a while? The relief that you will feel when you are no longer financially dependent on your H? And what opportunities will you have to practice the craft you love in Alaska - they must NEED comics there, no???
Quote:
Recently, it has come to my/his attention, I believe, that HE may have had some irrational obsessive tendencies b/c his contract has some weird vague clauses (I don't think he's getting screwed, btw) that unnerve him and I'm thinking, "Hello?? I"m a L and TOLD YOU THIS A YEAR AGO!!" And oh, btw, there are plenty of opportunities here and other places...so, who was irrational and who was objective? Does it matter? Is this about being "right" or being happy?
That's another weird MLC thing. He honestly doesn't seem to remember details like the contract's problems that I pointed out. Sure sure, some of it is denial. I get that. But I SWEAR sometimes he seems genuinely surprised at things he said at the time, or didn't say, or missed.....Christ, where was he?
This sounds so much like my H too. Part of it undoubtedly is depression, and it wreaks havoc with their memories. It's an almost universal experience here that the WAS cannot remember half the things they said when they were in crisis. And the obsessiveness - I think it ties in to the depression too. They so "NEED" whatever it is, because they feel like it will lift their depression. (In my H's case, it first was a porch addition and backyard remodel, then an affair, then beach property in Mexico...). The "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" approach with the projects just definitely veered a bit from normal enthusiasm into almost mania. In your case, I think this is just confirmation that your H has been sick, not just willfully destructive.
Quote:
He certainly believed in My career a bit much really. In case My earlier post was confusing--h said in his MLC peak, that I should be a) in the US senate by now, or b) have my own sitcom. His "faith" in me is flattering and it's also very pressuring and I've told him to stop setting me up for failure. Can I just be funny and NOT make money with it? I also write well and have had some articles published. NO, that does NOT mean I will write and publish the world's greatest novel. Some of my best attributes were sort of held against me as I did not "accomplish" great things with my talents and thereby underachieved..... These are things we've been better able to discuss. He says he just wants me to choose, or clarify and not go in different directions, but I've said that's not his choice....(and yet, I kind of want that clarity too...) He has backed off, and admitted that he's "shoveled out a heck of a lot of criticism" my way...UNPRECEDENTED admission, unprompted.
You know, J, I think this is an issue with our generation. Our H's saw those stupid commercials ("I bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan") and thought they could have it all - a brilliant career woman AND a full-time homemaker who would take care of all the kid stuff so they could pursue their own high-powered careers.
I think that when they hit their midlife depression, they suddenly feel the weight of being the primary wage earner, and fantasize that if WE were rich and successful THEY could just step off the treadmill. Suddenly it becomes OUR fault they have to work, even though we HAVE been working hard to keep the family going and accomodate their excessive work hours while they pursued their dreams. Past generations of men valued the work of homemakers and mothers, and took pride in supporting their families; many of this generation devalue homemaking, expect the woman to be an equal business partner, but aren't willing to "mommy track" their own careers. Puts us in a bind, doesn't it?
When will you be leaving for Alaska? We should try to meet for lunch sometime before you leave. (I'm in San Diego).
First of all BND, how many times has our WAs made promises to us? How many times do we believe them before we finally come to the conclusion that we're total idiots for once again giving them another chance? There are worse things in life than giving up on a one-sided M. At one time, I thought that I wouldn't survive if I were to D. Now, 3 yrs later, I find that it was the best thing that ever happened to me and wish that I hadn't wasted so much time fighting it.
So, I guess, you are entitled to your opinion in regards to saving a M at any cost (which is how you come across). However, I am not in agreement with you.
I don't want to get into a pissing match with you regarding this. I just don't have the energy to argue with you or anyone else. BTDT. Please don't post to me again and I'm very sorry I mentioned you in my post to 25yrs. It won't happen again.
First of all I want to say one thing. There is a difference between standing for your marriage and saving your marriage regardless the cost.
So again I have been misquoted.
IF a Spouse, who was normally a good and decent person before MLC hit, and from reading here, most of them were, then in this case, standing should be done.
BUT
It is not for everyone. It is painful and tiring and hard and it hurts.
IF the WAS is abusive in any way, or continues to have affairs or is truly done with the Marriage and just keeps on walking in the opposite direction then it is a little different.
J, Your Husband wants to be with you and the kids. He wants to rebuild that which was lost. It takes time, and patience, but it can happen if you are BOTH willing.
There is a difference between a WAS and a MLC'er.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
