Your seeming short/angry/remote at the surface but being hurt at your core by the lack of love/acceptance, reminds me of something I read in a book many years ago. The author described several layers of emotion. I don't recall all the layers, but "hurt/angry" was at the outermost, and "love" was at the innermost. The author suggested it was useful to explain to your partner how you feel, layer by layer, starting with the outermost one seen by your partner ("hurt/angry"). It seemed pretty useful to me, and from what you wrote, it sounds like getting from the "hurt" to the "love" layer is exactly what you just did.
The book is called "How to Make Love All the Time", by Beverly D'Angelis. (Title can be misleading.)
(btw: I was sure suprised by some of the negative reviews of this at Amazon...but, it sure looked like someone in particular has an axe to grind with her.)
It's been awhile, but I recall the book having multiple ideas to help one learn to get to the really-important communication that needs to be done, and avoid the distracting superficial stuff. Might be worth a look.
Thanks fiji, In all I feel a "BIT" better now that some of what was bottled up had a chance to see the light of day. The take home for me was "SHE IS CLUELESS.....Sort of" about what is going on with me. Either she truly has no idea or she is looking to other factors outside of the context of our marriage, to explain why things are the way they are. Regardless, it was a move in the right direction. Wheather or not it is just a band aid to keep the peace or truly a move to make things better only time will tell. I have been down this road MANY MANY times before. However, I am sure that I am going to go ahead and bite once more because I feel it is worth it. Just much more cautious this time around. Much more skeptical.
Question: Should she come to me for sex, and I am feeling it is just to asuage her insecurity,how best to approach telling her no. (it is just so counterintuitive for me) I really can't go down that road with her again (figuritively as well as literally due to the "wisdom of the penis" ) until I trust that she is doing it because she really wants to be with ME and not because of some insecurity issue or some misdirected sense of duty. I can always go the Viagra route but dont want to just give in and end up feeling worse for having done so later, like the next morning when she , traditionally reverts right back to her natural annoyed view of me.
are you saying you literally can't or you don't want to b/c you may end up hurt? I can say from my recent experiences that you will then be hurting her by saying no if she does try to initiate and it may well turn into a vicious cycle.
Unfortunately, from my POV and this being somewhat similiar to my sitch, if she truly is or has been "clueless," if she still doesn't know the extent of your feelings and hurt, are things really going to change for good? Like you said, it's not, in the long run, going to fix things if this is just a band-aid and she really doesn't know how very deeply your hurt runs and how very serious this is.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Much as I hate to admit it, I "can't". Both from an emotional standpoint as well as a literal stand point. Some where around 3 years ago or so, I developed a lovely case of ED. It is purly psychological my Dr. assures me. Up to now, I had refused to be "Robbed" of this aspect of my masculinity and self medicated w/ Viagra in the hopes that I would regain some confidence. It was working up to the point that the stretches of time in between encouters grew more and more in their duration. This ended up haveing a PROFOUNDLY negitive effect on my ability. Pretty much shot all my confidence all to hell and then some. Remember, we were , at best, a once a month couple. Then it grew to like 3-4 months this last time around with her breaking the fast by telling me that she was feeling "insecure" and that she worried about me straying. That was damn near five months ago. We have "been together" a grand total of 3 times over the last 9 months, two of those were back to back and the third was the above mentioned "maintainance". At this point I am at a total loss as to how best to bring the issue up. If I bring it up now, or in the near future, it is a guaranteed way to torpedo any detante,albeit celebete, we have going on currently. If I wait to broach this subject until she comes to me for some "quality" time, The same thing is, again, guaranteed conflict, with the added bonus of further monastic living arrangements. This is all in addition to my physical inability to perform unaided. Lovely situation I have on my hands. I really have no clue as to how best to proceed. I want her to know what is going on with me. Esp because she does not know about the chemical enhancement. But the issue is really turning into a major "loose/loose" for me. Her too. It would be so much easier if I felt like I could actually talk to her about this. But I honestly can't. Not without a major blow out. I know at some point I am going to need to have this talk, Just need some insight as to what to do the next time she comes looking for love I guess.
Maybe a major "blow out" is what needs to end up happening. I know that may be a very scary thought, because you don't necessarily know what the eventual outcome is going to be, but I'm still wondering if that is what needs to finally happen for her to break.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Dearest Tired - oh how I can sympathize with you about not wanting to bring up the subject because of the conflict it will cause.
I too, for way too many years, have been avoiding numerous discussions (a large percentage of them to due with sex, or the lack thereof)because we are BOTH conflict avoiders. My H also has a psychological version of ED which just compounds the issues in our lives all the more
However, just lately I have realized its not that I can't approach the subject, it is that I can't keep going on NOT approaching the subject. Our lives are much too short to keep pretending if we ignore the problem it will go away - it won't
Do you know how wonderful it would have been for my H to approach me and say "sweetheart, we really need to talk about something" - this is to do with both of you, not just YOU.
Please try and approach this subject with your wife. You might be surprised at a completely different response than what you are expecting to hear
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I read your earlier post about the conversation you had with your wife, and was really glad to hear it sounded like you are starting to clear up some misunderstandings you each have about what's been going on in the other's head. I wanted to encourage you to try to build up some momentum in your dialog, and not just let everything else go unsaid and misunderstood.
From your more recent post, it seems like you are going to be forced to continue the dialog, and perhaps get the ED issue out in the open.
(Please please please keep in mind I could be full of #($*#. I'm not a therapist, nor do I play one on the radio. But, I would like to offer my POV. Caveat emptor. YMMV....)
From here it seems like you've got a rare opportunity to make an especially meaningful connection with your wife. So much of our lives can be wasted by dancing around the real issues, not facing the problems head-on, trying to "patch" or manage one problem so our partner won't have to be hurt by it or inconvenienced by it or put in a bad mood by it or look down upon us. If the problem is not big enough, painful enough, urgent enough -- then it never gets solved.
Then, there are problems that are of such magnitude that you have no choice but to face it directly, honestly, and together with your partner. This seems like such a problem.
You seem afraid -- afraid that your wife will be angry, or maybe there will be a big blow up, or??? Why, I am not sure. Maybe you could fill us in on what exactly you are afraid her reaction will be. Maybe to do so would help you prepare, and take away some of the fear's power over you.
Maybe the ladies can clue me in... When a man experiences ED, I imagine there is a risk of his partner feeling unattractive, unwanted, or undesirable. Is that right? Are there more dangers looking there, to be handled "delicately" when discussing with the female partner?
From my male perspective, I would expect significant feelings of vulnerability/fear/insecurity in the one experiencing the ED. But, you seem to understand that it's a pretty natural thing to have happened, considering what you're feeling.
From what I understand from your previous posts, in reality it is NOT that she is unattractive/undesirable/unwanted; quite the contrary. The problem is that you do want her physically AND more -- you want and need to feel loved by her, and to experience that the act of sex as an expression of her love and desire for YOU. To me, that's not a failure of who she IS, but a symptom of the distance and misunderstanding that has grown between you two.
If that's the case, then it is not all her fault or all your fault; there's enough you both could have done differently. And, there are probably a lot of things outside your control, including circumstances of parenthood, work, extended family, and that thing (whatever it is) that is putting her under a lot of stress lately.
But, no matter how you got there, understanding the details of "how" isn't what is most urgently required. Most urgent is for her to understand is what you honestly feel and need from her now.
If I had to guess (based on my own experiences), instead of feeling closer to her after you make love, you feel like you're further and further apart. And, it's hard to pretend otherwise, especially when you want the real thing (to feel closer, desired/loved/wanted by her) so much that it hurts; so much that it feels like it's killing you.
Whatever it is that you feel, if you communicate it to her in a non-threatening and fully-vulnerable way, then maybe some of what you feel would actually resonate with her. That is, maybe she is feeling it too. Maybe that is why she seems uninterested in ML, who knows? You may be more alike than you've ever imagined.
My hunch is that you have, for various reasons, not been open and direct about what you need and what you feel. If ever there was a time in your relationship to lay all your cards on the table face up -- to let her see you as you really are, wanting so much to connect with her, to be held by her, to feel that she loves you -- then this is it. She'll either come through for you (maybe not immediately), or she won't. Either way, you'll learn what you need to about her and your relationship.
From my own experience, as difficult as it can be sometimes, finally revealing the truth about who I am and what I've been experiencing has ultimately been a relief.
If you doubt your ability to convey it to her face-to-face, writing it down on paper is always an option.
Again, I could be all wrong. If you think I am, I hope at least I haven't offended you. And, in any case, I wish you the best of luck. Life is short. You and your wife deserve to be living it more honestly with each other.
I am beginning to feel like some of the things you posted you want and need to feel loved by her, and to experience that the act of sex as an expression of her love and desire for YOU......instead of feeling closer to her after you make love, you feel like you're further and further apart..
OH, Man!, Sometimes it's spooky how you people "read my mail". First, it is interesting how posts have referred to my fears. Honestly, I have been "afraid" all my life. Somtimes I think I come off as a wimpy, simpy, "yes dear" kind of guy. To some extent that may be an accurate discription. However you would never know it if you met me on the street. My fears also do not stem from any parental abuse. More like parental ignorance. I come from a VERY loving and supportive family. A family that truly modeled what loving marriage looks like through generations. I think that, on some level, this is where some of my fear originates. It makes me think that it is a problem with me and that she does not love ME. The talk WILL need to take place at some point soon I think. As I have stated before, the distance is intolerable. I have also stated before that, as of late, I have refused to feel emotionally bullied. For better or worse, I think it may have forced the issue this past weekend and we seemed to,for once, HEAR each other. She, with the rigors of juggleing kids, issues with kids, and work/home, feels emotionally overwhelmed and due to my recent distance, unwilling to communicate with me. For my part, I have been unwilling to communicate because I feel that I am pushed away, unwanted and not looked at as valued in any other way except as a paycheck and as a dildo with a heartbeat. On balance, I think that she and I have the tools to communicate with each other. On my end, I have just been unwilling to try any more because I have always, ALWAYS run into so much resistance. I think that now,since I really do not have anything to loose, and that I am unwilling to feel pushed around, is the time to "chat" about what is going on. As you all have said, it really is pretty much time to "man-up" and see where her head is.
See, Idealy I would like to get to a place with her where we are able to really share with each other.Really get to a place to enjoy each other. Make each other the priority and maybe, hopefully, have some monkey lovin more often than once every blue moon. If she reacts negitivly, or deflects her responsibility then I will need to look at the viability of the relationship.
So, Dear, wise people of the sex starved marriage, care to dialogue with me and help me craft some sort of game plan regarding this chat?
