Here's my 2 cents. If any S says she is willing to go, then GO! You have no idea what her motivation is but if counselling could help the R then do it. I would advise looking for a Solution Focused/Oriented Counsellor as they are trained to help you look at what you want rather than how everything went wrong! Nobody wants to sit around and discuss their screw ups, it tends to make repeat visits unlikely. The Solution Focused approach is respectful, looking to the future and how you, as a couple, think you can get there. I'd go for it.
I don't think she is interested in hearing about how to make it work. That is obvious from our discussions.
We saw a solution focused MC 6 months ago. He basically gave us a formulaic approach on how to have conversations, how to argue effectively, etc.. She walked away from those after 3 sessions. I felt about the same about it. Would have been great 2 years ago, but now it was wrong for us.
However, i think maybe you are right that I should take her up on her lukewarm response to the possibility. I'm thinking if the MC will meet with us seperately at first, and then meet with us together it may be more productive.
So i think i truly understand deep down what it means to let go. I understand why everyone here posts to take care of myself, and not concern myself with her right now.
I snooped. I found an email she wrote to her sister. "I'm crazy about him. hes a good catch, and super adorable." Something about thinking about her and her sister having girl talk about how wonderful this other guy is while she was hurting her children made me angry. (her sister is a sociopath, no lie, my wife will agree with me)
I told myself forget about it, but i didn't - i confronted my wife. and as you can imagine it didn't go well. I told her she needs to make a decision, because she can't live in our house and live a seperate life at the same time.
We fought for the first time in months. It felt so ugly. I could see how badly she hurt, and I stopped. All it was doing was enforcing her feelings that we can't work. I understand now.
She is convinced that she got to the point where she can no longer have feelings for me. And while she won't say it, she thinks its easier to run to something new than to work on the resentment she has built up inside. There is probably a lot of reasons she feels this way, but i'm going to stop thinking about WHY, and just start moving forward. Her feelings are hers to deal with. I don't have to agree with them, but i need to stop disagreeing with them.
I have heard many times how she feels, and I need to start accepting it. Fighting it is only hurting me.
I am going to start working harder on myself for myself. For the last 4 months everything I did was for her. Now i need to do things to improve myself.
I have always been somewhat closed off, and maintained only a few intimate relationships (intimate - meaning I am truly open with myself and to others). I am working hard to change that, and posting here - albeit anonymously is helping in that transformation.
I know that a divorce can change me for the better or for the worse. I don't want to add more layers of armor to myself. I want to walk away from this stronger, confident, and more open.
I still believe in my wife, and I still believe that while we are broken, we can fix us. I am just stepping aside to allow her to grow in the directions she needs to grow right now.
I don't expect anything from her now. I still love her though. She is my best friend, the best lover i've ever had, and a fantastic mother. Whatever she is doing now doesn't change that for me. Thinking about things like "is he better for her", doesn't change how good we were for eachother. I miss her, but I miss myself too. I'm not sure where he went but i'm on a mission to find myself again. Who knows, maybe then we will be able to find eachother again, i'm not planning for that anymore though.
Things can change A LOT over time. You need to give your wife the time and space to realize this "good catch" who is so "adorable" (gag me!!!), is more likely, in reality, much different than what she's building him up to be.
By pulling away, focusing on you, GALing (building up that social life!), being able to survive without her if it becomes necessary, is really the best thing you can do now... and it sounds like you realize that.
If she does go to MC with you at this time, don't have any expectations. And keep in mind, while the affair is going, your wife may be a different person and what she's going to say and do will be quite different from what she'd say when it ends. I don't think people can commit too much to a marriage when they are in the midst of an affair.
At this point I wouldn't consider my marriage over if I were you. Until the last divorce papers are signed off by the judge you are still married and you lose nothing by holding the door open until then (just make sure you're building up a great life so if she wants to walk back in it's a great place to be, and if she doesn't it's still a great place to be... hope that makes sense!).
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
The first thing I did when I got back from vacation (where I met the OM for the 1st time) was email my sister too. I said "he's so hot" and blah blah blah. I honestly don't remember ever feeling so physicaly attracted to any other man like this before. I was just caught up in the newness and excitement of it all. I had to share it with my sister. That's just what sisters do. By the way my husband feels the same about my sister too. He thinks she influences me and I find her single life attractive. Both couldn't be any more further from the truth.
I realize that the way she sees this guy can change, but right now it's extremely painful to watch. She seems so happy, it makes me sick to think I couldn't make her that happy. I need to protect myself from seeing it, and stop trying to find details about their relationship.
It's also disgusting that she would do this in front of me, this is not the sensitive, caring woman i married. Although I honestly can't say I was the caring, sensitive man she married throughout our marriage, so who am I to judge.
I'm not giving up on her yet though. I do realize that while her relationship is going strong, its impossible to make any major strides in fixing us. I pray for the other guy to be a real jack ass. However from what I can tell he is doing everything right.
I also get that anything i snoop and find is going to not nessecarily reflect her true feelings. Her feelings are probably a lot more complicated than what she emails her sister, or text messages this guy. I need to avoid seeing that stuff, because it destroys my PMA, and probably fits the same rule to only believe 50% of what I see and nothing that i hear.
Anyways, I have been thinking about manufacturing some time for us to spend together. Under the guise of doing things for or with our kids. I will be sure not to pressure, and avoid all conversations about US/Them/ and the future.
It's hard not to snoop. I found out where the OM works, I have his and his wife’s home address, I have his cell Phone # and the Phone # of several Phone booths he call my W from. But all of the time I was looking for this stuff I felt miserable. Every new thing I found would bring me down a little more. So I stopped looking for him. I stopped worrying about their conversations. Anyway now I could so easily mail the photos to his home and business and make him feel pain. But what would I gain? I would have my W mad at me and probably for sure end our R. I have stopped snooping. I do have all I need. It's kind of like having a weapon of mass destruction. I'm not going to use it but I can. It is a feeling of power. However it is not the OM. It is my wife that I need to work with. SHE is the one that has to decide that what ever she is looking for can be found right her. She needs to tell him to stop calling. And when and if she does tell him and if he does not stop calling then I have the WMD.
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
I have had an affair, and I can tell you I told my husband the same thing, the only difference is that the man was my same age.
I realize now how stupid I was, but I don't think there is anything I can do now, which kills me....unfortumately, she will continue pulling away from you until she is gone, then realizes her mistake (it took me over a year to realize what I had done)
I really don't know what to say or if anything can help....maybe grabbing her and saying...DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING????..I know I wish someone would have done that for me....even though I don't know if it would have done anything.
I can tell you, if you let her go the regret and loss that she will feel when she wakes up will be the worst that anyone would ever have to endure....if she is anything like me.
lovemydogs --- Unfortunately i know you are right. I nor anyone can change her mind right now. Can you help me understand more about your situation, as its rare to talk to someone that has gone through the same thing from the opposite side
When you finally woke up, what caused the change of heart?
Had your husband already moved on, or have you been able to reconcile?
I figured it was time for an update to my situation.
So.. things are still hot and heavy with the OM and my wife. But i am better.
I realized some hard things about myself and my personality, and am working on those things to improve myself. I can even see my wife's point of view on some major issues. Tough realizations.
I also understand that she has to deal with all this in her own way. Yes, I get angry and upset when she says things like, "I am not doing anything wrong, and i'm a good person", but i don't let her see it, and the level that those statements hurt are not nearly as great as a few months ago. I let them roll off my back, she is entitled to her own opinions and feelings. I don't have to agree with them, i just don't need to disagree with them.
She is still convinced that we can't work because of 'our differences', and I'm sure that it is a great deal influenced by the fact that she is feeling so happy with the OM. It hurts, but i try not to talk about it. Instead i have become a good listener, and a better friend to her. I don't push her to feel anything, and I don't disagree with her feelings. She says things like "i looked at houses today", and instead of showing the hurt, i respond with something like "fun times, huh", and leave it at that.
I still want to work on us, but i would never go back into our old relationship, so I figure I can't change her right now, but I can change myself. Maybe if we don't move in opposite directions, she will be ready to work on herself and us as well someday.
I have seen some positives recently, we talk for longer, we laugh more, and she is not as anxious to run upstairs and get on the phone, or do whatever she does at night. I don't start conversations anymore - but when she does, they are jovial, friendly, and continue into really nice times. I am hoping to create some times for us to spend together under the guise of doing things for our kids.
Its strange though, she knows how I feel, but she acts as though we have decided this together, and she is completely okay with what she is doing to our family. Like hey - we are good friends, but thats it. At the same time we seem to be getting closer.
The OM must be really doing a number on her. I pray that he turns into a jackass. I guess i can't control that, the only thing I can control is whether I'm a jackass.
Anyways, i guess the message is I am happier with myself right now than I have been in a long time. I don't feel like if she leaves me I will be lost and alone. (sometimes i do, but since i'm not feeling that right now - i'm going to stick with this positive feeling for as long as I can). I'm realizing that that is what detaching is all about. And the books, and the senior members are all correct, it is a positive.
If you don't like yourself, then how can your spouse like you. And if you like youself, and your spouse still doesn't like you, then maybe it should be over. For me right now it seems like my wife likes the same things i like in me. Unfortunately, she is blinded by this OM.
