I know this should probably go over in "infidelity," but we have our own "in-house expert" on A's over here & plus I just like you guys over here.
Anyway, questions about A's. (and no, I'm not dwelling, just kind of thinking/confused/wondering, etc.) Don't yell at me Hey!!
Do you ever get completely over it? Do you ever look at your spouse the same? I am looking @ his pic right now, one that used to just give me goosebumps (good ones) and I can say to myself "That's my H," however, I just don't see him the same way anymore.
His history was 2 EA's during a deployment, 1 PA (one night stand) supposedly she worked @ the hotel (he was staying at during another deployment) and she used master key, came in and gave him BJ, he kicked her out - oh, and he was drunk. Then recently another EA.
Does it matter how good I make things for him now? Will he always do this to me no matter how well I am taking care of him in all ways in our M?
I have decided absolutely no more snooping; he has told me that his latest "friend" "has been taken care of," however, will I ever truly trust him again? Will the feeling of doubt always be there? Like the other night, I said to him (re: our very active sex life) that I "am just taking advantage of the time we have left" and he said something about using his words. Well, I truly don't remember him saying these words to me, so I automatically wonder if he said them to someone else? I know, I know, but that's what I'm talking about -- do you always think this way???
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
I won't claim expert status, but I will try to answer some of your questions based on my studies.
Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------- Do you ever get completely over it? Do you ever look at your spouse the same? I am looking @ his pic right now, one that used to just give me goosebumps (good ones) and I can say to myself "That's my H," however, I just don't see him the same way anymore. --------------------------------------------------------------
A scar is a scar. They never go away, they just fade some with age. If your relationship grows to a healthy enough place, then a scar might even become a point of "bragging rights". The truth is, you will never look at your husband the same, simply because your relationship with him has been altered forever. That doesn't have to mean "bad", just different.
Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------- Does it matter how good I make things for him now? Will he always do this to me no matter how well I am taking care of him in all ways in our M? ---------------------------------------------------------------
All you can do, is the best you can do for your half of the marriage. Outside of that, you have no control over what he does. If he decides to have another affair, then he will. That's why it is so very important to understand that having an affair(s) is 100% his choice, and not your fault. You can't make him or me or anyone else fall into bed with another person.
What that practically means is that he should be indicating to you in action and in his way of living whether or not he is trustworthy or not. It also means that unless he has come to understand the underlying cause of his motivations for his actions, that he is likely to repeat the behavior.
Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------- I have decided absolutely no more snooping; he has told me that his latest "friend" "has been taken care of," however, will I ever truly trust him again? Will the feeling of doubt always be there? Like the other night, I said to him (re: our very active sex life) that I "am just taking advantage of the time we have left" and he said something about using his words. Well, I truly don't remember him saying these words to me, so I automatically wonder if he said them to someone else? I know, I know, but that's what I'm talking about -- do you always think this way??? --------------------------------------------------------------
I think that a person that has been repeatedly shot by another person has good reason to doubt that the shooter will stop. Again, actions over time is the only way he can demonstrate his commitment (or not) toward the marriage. You will always wonder to some degree if he will shoot you again.
I will tell you this, and this is my opinion, don't wait on him too long. You have a limited number of years on this planet. When you start talking about waiting 1, 5 , 10 years on someone to change their behavior, then you really need to be able to justify it to yourself, and that justification better be good, because it is what will be staring you in the face 15 years from now if your life is still falling apart. That is time that you don't get back.
So my advice to you is actually quite simple, be really sure about what, who and how much you invest your life in any given situation or action.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Well, I think I've pretty much decided that if he CHOOSES to cheat again (especially during this next year's deployment) and CHOOSES to tell me about it, he will be G - O - N - E.
After all I have done to improve/fix/change, etc. our R and our M and my behavior as a W and feel that it is all VERY GOOD and he has it VERY GOOD, if he CHOOSES to cheat again, I will not be able to or want to try to forgive & forget again.
Thanks for your input
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
I guess another question is that sometimes I feel as if he has absolutely no respect for me. How does the person feel that had the A? Do they feel like the spouse that forgives has no self respect if he/she is willing to "allow" per se their spouse to cheat and stay w/ them. I guess that's my real reasoning for saying "not again." B/c I feel as if I have given up some of my self respect or maybe even a lot by staying in the M after all of the A's.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
I think that forgiveness is a gift, but someone that just accepts bad behavior without recourse is disrespecting themselves. If you don't respect yourself, then others with a demonstrated lack of boundaries such as your husband, will simply treat you as a doormat.
One way to regain some of your perceived loss of respect, is to simply state your boundaries to your husband. Something like; "Hubby, I have been patient through all of your uncertainties and infidelities. I have changed myself and done my level best to address issues that I have created in the marriage. Having done so, I must respectfully inform you that I simply will not tolerate any additional infidelities. I love you, but that is the way it has to be in order for me to continue in the marriage."
If he finds that unacceptable, then consider yourself as having saved years of your life that would have otherwise been spent in misery.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Thank you, kind sir, for discussing w/ me. It's hard to see through such strong emotions, etc. at times to the other side, you know?
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
You are more than welcome. I have been victim to my own share of blind spots over the years.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I've mostly been lurking lately, but I do have some comments for you. I had a PA seventeen years ago and want to spill my guts in the hope that my experience might help you. A lot of people here know my story, but I don't know about you. So I'll give you a thumbnail version.
W and I were teenagers when we got married. We had only known each other for about three months. We both had strong religious beliefs against pre-marital sex, so it wasn't until after we were married that I found out that she had a very low sex drive and was mentally/emotionally unable to have a normal SL. Our SL consisted of me doing oral on her and getting a half-hearted HJ in return roughly every six weeks - if I was lucky. We didn't have IC for over eleven years. IC became a twice a year thing after that. I had my A at about the 14 year mark. It lasted nine months. We went into MC and things got marginally better between us, but W flat out refused to address the sexual issues.
She had a hysterectomy several years ago and as soon as she recovered from the surgery she started having IC once a week just like clockwork. That lasted not quite a year and then went back to the previous pattern with no explanation. She won't discuss it. We had been to the C off and on ever since the A, but I went back alone to talk about this issue. That's when the C told me about W being diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The diagnosis had been independently confirmed by another C we had seen and confirmed by yet another C with whom this one had shared notes. I left here around that time explaining that we obviously had much bigger problems than SSM to deal with.
There's a lot more, but that should give you enough background to understand where I'm coming from. So now to the meat of this post. I want to tell you a little from the cheater's side, but since my W had, and still has, some serious issues, I'm not sure how applicable my experience is to your particular sitch.
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Does it matter how good I make things for him now? Will he always do this to me no matter how well I am taking care of him in all ways in our M?
While I am in no way trying to excuse my A, for me it was all about the sex. As NOP says in his sig lines, I felt entitled. I was a good man. I was a good H. I had been way more than understanding for many, many years. I deserved to have my sexual needs and desires met. In my case, I can say for certain that I would not have strayed if I had felt that W was even making an effort to meet my needs. But I didn't. I felt like she wasn't trying and in fact, didn't even care.
As to whether he will do it again, like before, I can only answer for myself. In all honesty, I'm tempted all of the time. Once the year of weekly sex had passed, W's libido just seemed to dry up completely. I still get the obligatory HJ every couple of weeks, but obligatory is exactly how it feels. This past weekend I went down on her, but that's the first time she's allowed that in ages. I honestly can't even remember the last time we ML. So, yes, I still feel entitled. I still feel cheated. And like NOP has pointed out, it's frighteningly easy to find a willing partner - AFF being only one of the more obvious ways. It's only through religious conviction and steely resolve that I haven't had another A (or two or three...). So I guess I'm saying that if the sitch is the same, the feelings and the things that were used to justify the A are the same as well. Fortunately in your case, things are not the same. So while I can't speak for your H, I can say for myself that my desire to seek satisfaction elsewhere hasn't diminished a bit. Only my willingness to succumb to that desire has changed.
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I guess another question is that sometimes I feel as if he has absolutely no respect for me. How does the person feel that had the A? Do they feel like the spouse that forgives has no self respect if he/she is willing to "allow" per se their spouse to cheat and stay w/ them. I guess that's my real reasoning for saying "not again." B/c I feel as if I have given up some of my self respect or maybe even a lot by staying in the M after all of the A's.
Respect is another tough one. It's difficult to explain, but I never really lost respect for W either before or during the A. It sounds like a cheater's justification, and maybe it is, but the A was completely separate from our M. It's a poor analogy, but think of it as getting tires for your car (we're assuming that your local dealer doesn't sell tires). You may be religious about maintaining your car and go to the dealer for everything - even car washes. But your tires eventually wear out and need to be replaced. The fact that you go to the tire place down the street to get something not offered at the dealer really has no bearing at all on your feelings about the dealer. It's something completely separate. It's something you need that just isn't available where you normally have your car serviced. Of course there's no moral obligation involved in tires. There's no pledge of fidelity either. But even though it's a poor analogy, it does picture how I looked at it at the time.
When it comes to keeping me, taking me back, or however you want to look at it, I actually respect her more. I saw the error of my ways, I confessed, I apologized, and I said that I would never do it again. And she accepted that. I believe in repentance and I believe in second chances, but in all honesty, I'm not sure if I would have been a big enough person to forgive W if the tables had been reversed. But, and this is the kicker, if I were to do it again, and if she were to let it go again, I can say with near certainty that I would lose respect for her. It's the old fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me.
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Well, I think I've pretty much decided that if he CHOOSES to cheat again (especially during this next year's deployment) and CHOOSES to tell me about it, he will be G - O - N - E.
Have you made that clear to him? I don't remember when you found out about the multiple A's, but it doesn't matter. What's past is past and you have no reason to lose self-respect. But now is the time for a clear boundary. If you have made it clear to your H that you will no longer accept any kind of A, be it EA or PA, then you need to stick to that in order for you to respect yourself and for your H to respect you.
Thank you very much for your input. This is all still so foreign to me. I guess I also wonder what makes H and I so different in the way that, even if I was terribly unhappy, the thought of cheating never crossed my mind, whereas he didn't seem to blink an eye.
He's leaving on Tuesday. Last night after ML, he had a funny look on his face. I asked what was up and he said he just didn't want to leave. Part of me thinks that is b/c things are so good w/ us now that he doesn't want to leave me and part of me wonders if it is b/c, even though things are so good, he still wonders if he can be faithful.
Like I've said, I'm not going to dwell on this last thought. It is his choice he is going to have to make and I've done my part to help him make the right choice. I am still doing my part even though I'm getting back into the "comfort zone" of our M. I am making sure that I don't forget lessons learned and make sure I continue to make the effort it takes and thought process it takes to keep things really good and not just comfortable and end up in the same ol' rut. It happens in all M's, I think, but we here on the Board are the ones who understand that it takes effort to keep the M going strong and are willing to take the initiative to do that.
I've already sent 2 cards (one being our anniv card which he will be gone for) to his new address so 1 at least will already be waiting for him when he gets there. I am going to make sure that I keep giving him as much love & attention that I can, even long distance. No complaining about how stressful it is taking care of the boys, etc., just happy stuff and supporting him while he's gone.
I really think I'm finally actually BELIEVING that we're going to be ok. However, it seems the happier he seems, the more I then wonder if he's not doing something he shouldn't be doing. I know that sounds ridiculous, b/c he is just finally getting the "love" back that he had lost and realizing how good we have it and is just plain happy that we are doing so well, but the thought is always there in the back of my mind. I guess that will go away and fade w/ time. In reality, everything is still very fresh still -- the whole D bomb, DB process just seems like it's been forever that this has been going on when in actuality it's only been 4 months!!
Thanks, guys, for all the support. I know in my heart things are going to be ok & I just keep praying for myself and for my H and our M and our family. I'll do my part and pray that H realizes that he also needs to do his.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
I know this is an older post, but I was catching up on your sitch and just wanted to say that in MY situation, where I dumped my then boyfriend, he was crushed, I dated other guys, then we got back together after a few months, it has been 15 years now. He has ALWAYS done that thing where when he doesn't recall something he would like at me out of the corner of his eye and sometimes even say, "You must have said that to some other boy," with a jabbing tone of voice. Sigh . . .
It has been proven time and again that I have a mind for details. My best friend jokes that I have a "mind like a steel trap". lol But he is always suspect, even after all these years.
But he is always suspect, even after all these years.