Whore/Madonna Syndrome

[alpha123]

I've been following your thread, and what really struck me was the privacy part. My H is, and has always been that way. He keeps all his bills and paperwork locked away, does not share anything with me about his finances. Keeps a password on his PC. It used to infuriate me, but not a huge problem, (there was no A). I'm really glad for the insight on here. It shows that it's all about trust.

[Greeneyedlass]

Alpha,

Before my H cheated online on me he used to keep all the bills hidden away and I never saw them. At that time it didn't really bother me, he paid the bills...I knew they got paid. In my situation though he also used the credit cards to pay for his activities....so now, there is NOTHING I cannot view at any given moment.

He used to also clear the history/cache out of the computer EVERY time he'd go on it...another HUGE warning sign, and well...so is locking the computer. I'm glad for you that there was no A. Trust is a HUGE factor in a relationship, if you don't have it...then what's the point? That's why it's so important for those who have cheated to do whatever it takes to earn back their betrayed spouse's trust.

GEL

[Heywyre]

GRL and Alpha - I totally agree that the trust issue is HUGE and if you don't have that, then what's the point.

GEL - my H was like yours, I never saw any of the bills etc. but they were getting paid, just like they are now, we are not in financial straits, even though he did spend quite a bit of money on OW, but the fact remains is he didn't put us into debt. However, that doesn't make it right, does it?

Of course, the question I get now is "well, you never questioned me before, why now? And he can't seem to understand it has nothing to do with my not trusting that the finances will be taken care of, it has to do with the trust that he just won't tell me - that sets off alarms

We had a HUGE talk (2 exhausting hours) last night when he got home and I still never touched on the visa and/or cell bill - that is coming. Also I noted the taxi receipts he had (which we have to claim for, and I will have access to because I will be putting the claim in for them) What strikes me as weird (red flag) is he said he went to the mall but the address of the receipt is different. Now, I know there might be an explanation (i.e. he wanted the address coming and going to be the same so they wouldn't question it - acceptable) however it coincides with the time frame I couldn't get ahold of him (another red flag) so that is going to have to be addressed and the only way he will be able to talk himself out of that one is to give me access to his cell for yesterday (and the rest of the month) to prove to me he wasn't in contact with her

Time will tell

[Greeneyedlass]

Heywyre,

I know it's not going to be fun to have to dredge all this stuff up again...but he honestly just doesn't get that his refusal to provide you with these things causes a trigger, his refusal gives you reason not to trust....because there's NO reason not to hand those things over. The bills are yours jointly, the money belongs to both of you, the money that pays his/your cell phone bills is yours jointly.

As to the "well you never questioned me before, why now?" comment...well, "before you cheated I was able to trust you, you have cheated now...that kills trust. Providing me with these things helps YOU rebuild that trust you killed." I mean, infidelity is in itself based on lies and deceit...cheaters, lie. Cheaters kill trust in their partner. BECAUSE he had the affair he doesn't have a right to expect your trust without doing what it takes to earn it back.

This is all explained in that book I referred to you.

GEL

[Heywyre]

Yes, and the interesting thing about it is HE is the one that wanted me to rebook the book at the library because HE was the one that wanted to read through it again. I can hardly wait until it is available again so I can point those things out to him (not that I can't before that time)

As a matter of fact, I might just pick up my own copy of it so he can read it 100 times if he has to (good idea Heywyre!!)

And no, I really don't feel like dredging all this up again when I just thought we had finally got to a place of acceptance for a little while but I know all I have done is push it down and I really haven't dealt with it because (1) it is too painful (2)I am afraid of his response/reaction and (3) I was under the illusion if I just let it go, it would go away (HA!!! - the funniest one of all eh?)

But the words of my C keep coming back to me - I have to learn to trust myself and the bottom line is, if he is unwilling to give me what I need to build the trust back, how can I even think of living another day with this man? I love him dearly but that isn't enough right now

[Greeneyedlass]

Heywyre,

You are on the right track in your thinking. Issues don't just go away when you don't confront them...and I would definitely BUY the book. Sometimes they are handy to have around to refer back to.

I really believe you two will get through this, I just think your hubby is going to need a smack upside the head about his "privacy" and the fact that it promotes mistrust in him. He needs to understand...you don't owe him your trust, BECAUSE he betrayed you. He doesn't just get your trust and his own behavior is stunting your trust in him.

I think he'll get it, it's just going to take you, the book, and perhaps your MC to get it through to him.

GEL

[Heywyre]

Yes GEL - you are right. It's not ME that is stopping the process from happening, it is HIM but he seems to like to point fingers that its my problem and "I know its going to be hard for you to trust me and I know you might never" - well, I am tired of hearing that line too. If he REALLY want me to get past the mistrust then he would be doing everything in his power to help me. I know, ultimately, my feelings belong to me but we are only a few months into this (second time around) mess and if he isn't doing anything now how can I possibly get past this

I know I have to face the music but it sure isn't going to be easy. However, if we are going to get through this it can't be all on my head. After all, he said to me again last night "it had nothing to do with you, there is nothing wrong with you" - if that is the case, then why am I the one carrying the burden of rebuilding the trust?

[Greeneyedlass]

Heywyre,

I don't know if this will help you...but when I was confronting my H about issues I used this line on him and it might work with this trust issue thingie too (technical term there). I told my H that what he was doing was sabotaging our marriage...and he had control over that, not me.

So you might rephrase it like this perhaps when he says this...."I know its going to be hard for you to trust me and I know you might never". (Your Response)"Your right I might not ever...because your behavior is intentionally or unintentionally telling me I shouldn't....hiding things from me, not allowing me to see bills, phone records etc sabotages trust after an affair, whether those items were part of the affair or not. Keeping those things from me isn't "privacy" it's "secrecy", we are married...and there is NO reason I should not have full access to these things....it's only wise anyway should anything ever happen to you medically and I have to pay the bills. Besides that if you truly want me to trust you then you have to provide me with the tools to build that trust...if you choose not to, then YOU choose not to regain my trust."

Obviously...you would tweak that to fit you. My husband though has a really tough time fighting against logic.

GEL

[Heywyre]

Hmmm very good one GEL

And, my H is the same way - logic, logic, logic. As a matter of fact the C has told him on more than one occasion that he is "too logically" for his own good sometimes. So, that just might work with him. After all, how can he argue with logic eh?

I will have to memorize those lines so I can make it sound like it came from me but I am sure he would have to at least think about that response now wouldn't he. And, if it doesn't come up in conversation between now and Friday, which I am sure it probably will, I can bring it up in C

I will have to print that one off and work on it (of course it will be kept at the office so he doesn't see it - lol)

[Greeneyedlass]

LOL...one of my best friends one time told me that she bet my husband sometimes hates being married to a smart, quick-witted woman LOL. Another friend told me "it's a good thing you use your powers for good and not evil." LOL

I figured out a long time ago my husband won't argue logic. He may not want to admit what I say makes sense at first, but he'll take it...mull it over and most of the time agree that what I said made sense. He may not always agree completely with what I want...but he'll agree it made sense.