Hi Here is the beginning of my story. (click above link)
I am wondering if my H is having an MLC. He has moved out and wants to sell the house. He says he wants his own place. He doesnt want to work things out, he says I drove him away. We have been together 15 years and for most of that very happy. We have 2 children that are 6 and 4. He says he doesnt want to ne married anymore. Hes not spending money because there is none to spend but he seems to be drinking more often. He says he wants the kids half the time, but right now hes only taking them about once a week. I have made changes to myself for myself that he sees but says this cant be fixed.Some of the stories I hav read here sound just like H. There isnt another woman as far as I know. What happens if we do sell the house? Can I still try Db'ing? Is there any point after that? Im in such pain right now because he doesnt even want to try. I dont know what to do I am looking for answers but everytime I seem to find one it goes out the window. I told him to list the house but he said whats the hurry. Then he wanted to spend Easter together with the kids. Very confusing. We talked tonight and I asked him if he expected mne to wait for him to make up mind, he got upset and told me to go ahead and find someone else and to finish what I started with the lawyer. I had and appt and cancelled because we were going to have a talk the day before i had the appt. HE was angry when he said this adn I said dont get mad at me because I am trying to give him what he wants. He says he doesnt know what he wants but that he wants his own place and he doesnt want to be married anymore. Should I just give up and move on? Is it worth it? PLease help. Heather
DO you want a divorce? ...clearly the answer is NOOOOO
So why would you go to a lawyer?
Because that is what someone ELSE wants is NOT an answer.
Why would you do what someone else wants when it is not mreley what you do not want, but also when you feel it is wrong.
Why would you be like the MLCer and give up? Why wouldn't Standing be worth it...for the man you love, for the former relationship for the kids...?
So the first thing I want you to do is STOP all relationship talks....at least initiating them, and try to back-off if he starts one.
Do not ask him if he wants you to wait for him or not...why would that even matter? He's NUTS and will be that way for a few years...yes, if this is MLC he will be that way for a few to several YEARS. Do not believe what he says...other than the truth that he doesn't know what he wants. The only time an MLCer is being truthful is when they say the don't know or are confused...and sometimes that is also a lie to get you to do what they want.
He is going to be in ME-MODE for a very long time. That means for HIM he will come first...he won't care about what you or the kids want...and he thinks they'll be fine with all this...if not now, eventually.
He may admit that this is all about him and he it's time he is selfish...validate that. "I understand, but I have to do what I feel is right whether you agree or not." Say it calmly...not in an argumentative way.
He will get angry...sometimes truly angry, and sometimes to manipulate you into doing as he wants. Be firm...do not fear the anger.
Don't see a lawyer yet...unless he does. And don't tell him. If he tries to tell you that you should use the same lawyer for a divorce , separation...or anything...absolutely NOT. He may complain that you are just wasting or spending money. Say "That's how these things work."
You said you do not think there is an OW....well I'm going to be blunt...if that is true it is simply not true YET. IF this is MLC...he will most likely get and OW if there is not already one present or waiting in the wings.
So he wants to spend Easter with you...so pull yourself together and spend it with him. Yes he will confuse you. HE may change his mind and come and go...epsecially now in the beginning.
So here is what to expect from that...if he comes home, he will not stay. He doesn't know that and is so confused right now. He is afraid of hurting you...but he MUST do what is doing. It is a compulsion, and addiction and something beyond his mental and physical control. He may have staved it off a few years in attempts to control it...it is not beyond that.
So it is fine to keep your hpes high for what will happen...IN THE END. But for each individual moment, keep your expectations at zero. Because I've been through this and though the pain you are feeling right now is the worst ever...your MLCer will get worse...hopefully by then your own pain will have subsided somewhat to easier to handle levels.
But believe me HE WILL GET WORSE AND RUN FARTHER AWAY FROM YOU. He will get worse no matter what you act ilke...that is if you do everything we tell you here...good DB'ing...he will still get worse and go or stay away.
MLC is a jounrey and he MUST go through it. IT cannot be skipped, prevented, stopped midway or gone over. He has issues from childhood that were not resolved. He is now being forced to resolve them.
And right now he is trying to avoid fac ing those demons/issues. This avoidance phase is called Replay and can last a few years. He may live or try to live the frat boy life for a while.
You cannot fix him. If you yank him out of the entrance of the MLC tunnel, he will go back in now, and if later he will go back for a much worse journey.
I know this is hard, and that doing what I recommend will not be immediate. BUT you need to ACCEPT this...that he will be in this for a few YEARS and that it will get worse.
And don't be fooled by early returns. There are people here whose MLCers left and came home relatively quickly...and things seemed fine for a few years--they often did not seek counseling upon return...but some did. They came back here because their MLCers left again...up to two years or so later.
Accept it now so you do not have to repeat it later.
So spend Easter with him. What you arte to be is HIS SAFE PLACE. That is what you need to be through out this journey. He needs to feel that you will not judge him, have/will forgive unconditionally... He will go trough this crisis and need a shoulder to cry on...he may not use yours in Replay...or even later. But he may. Be the place he runs to when he wants comfort and asafet...and this is tough, be that place without being a mother to him...
If you choose to do this...Stand for your marriage. Don't tell him...it is a choice you get to make on your own and it is only something that will make him feel pressured and add to his guilt. You can tell him you will contest a divorce, that you are morally opposed to divorce...etc. That is a reason that doesn't include him...it would be the same gor another guy. But he cannot handle pressure or more guilt thinking you are waiting around for him.
And by the way...I'm a Stander and we don't wait...STanding is not Still. We get a life. We don't dte...that would be infidelity. But we have lives.
Most of the posters have kids...many young like yours. They are doing this; so can you. It is your choice.
Read the resources threads at the top of the forum. Then tell us what you choose.
Don't get hung up on diagnosing his disease (dis ease). He is not at ease with himself or his life. He doesn't know what will help. He has flashes of happiness and then they vanish before he can solidify an answer.
Mlc or not, DB teaches excellent practical techniques for managing yourself in this time. DB may or may not alter the outcome of a MLCer. It does not say it can. But it can guide you to calmer contacts and more stability in your own life. DB says to take care of yourself. MLC says to let them flounder in their own confusion. It is not out of spite. It is the only way they can process this life stage transition they are caught up in.
Maybe your H is not full blown MLC, but just a WAH at mid life. They all follow such a similar script it can be impossible to separate the two. If thinking he is MLC helps you understand your options then come to your own conclusion based on his childhood, his perception of where he is in his career, etc.
He says sell house and you try, he is not ready. He says get the D and you start, then he is not ready. Let me share what those observing MLC here for a while will tell you. Stop trying to make him happy. Stop now. You can't, you won't, and it will destroy you.
You can do things to avoid conflict. This is the most one can usually hope for in surviving mlc. If he says he wants to sell the house you should decide that he is saying this to see how it sounds to himself. He is trying to decide if that is what he wants. If it is, the best way to find out is sit back and see if he sells the house. One common trait of a MLCer is they run out of gas. They don't complete what they start in things of this nature. A true full blown WAH seems to already have his plan in hand and a roadmap out of there. MLCers are confused by their very existence. They are supercharged with depression, guilt, and low self esteem. They are trapped at a crossroads and you can not help them make these decisions.
Do you want to sell the house, or get a D to make your life simpler? If you do, maybe you just aren't prepared to ride out this storm, or you may also be in your own mlc. That is not just a joke. It is not unusual for mlc in one spouse to cause a crisis in the other. The degree of turmoil depends on childhood issues, self esteem, and a comfortable relationship with mortality.
When a MLCer wants a D, you can avoid challenging them by stating that you understand why they feel the M is broken. You can state that you don't want it to end but that if it is dead and gone then you will not fight them over this.
That gives them the control and validation they think they want. They may not make a move beyond that. Getting what they want confuses them. This could be why you keep trying to appease him and feeling confused when it fails. Stop trying to do that. Practice "agreeing and validating" without promising to take any action what so ever. Let him run out of gas in his own time and at his own pace.
Your focus must be on keeping your tank full. Do things for yourself. Do things that make you happy. Do NOT look to him for your happiness. He has none to share. Do not be surprised to find out he is considering an OW at some point. MLCers try anything and everything to make themselves happy. OP have nothing much to do with this except that we become destroyed in learning we are replaced by another. Again, that is more our fault for losing perspective than theirs for experiencing and exhibiting all the symptoms of mlc.
I also state that mlc is not a get out of jail free card. Forgiving a person does not require forgeting their actions. The two are separate. Knowing they did not do something just to hurt you allows you to forgive them in some ways. Knowing they made decisions that hurt you make it hard to trust and time alone will heal that wound. The scar will stay and you will remember to be watchful in the future.
There are no rules for how to keep mlc from destoying a M. There are books and ideas on how to try and survive it yourself even if the M doesn't. That must be your focus.
First off, welcome to the psych ward! Check in at the desk and deposit your valuables in the safe. (Sorry, my sense of humor is slightly warped.)
Let me tell you something about men. Being one myself, I have amazing psychic insight to our fragile little inner workings.
We are weak. Weak in the flesh, weak in spirit. We act like we want to be alone, but it scares the crap out of us. We need someone to take care of us and make us feel like we are what we perceive ourselves to be (Most often, we are not even close.). We are creatures of ego and are perpetual adolescents. We like to be told we are sexy, attractive and strong, even if we aren't. If we aren't getting that, we tend to look where we will get it. Especially when we are weakening ourselves with other influences that give us a false sense of well-being.
How do I know? Been there, done that.
I don't think I need to tell you where I am heading with this, but I believe you need to prepare yourself for what is probably going on in your husband's life. If you start to realize it now, although it will be a harsh reality regardless, you have time to prepare yourself for it.
The drinking is an attempt to escape. In the course of that escape, many other external factors arise. Most of the time, they are less than honorable. Under the influence of those chemicals we deem so wonderful, our judgment fades, right and wrong are no longer as defined, and we act on impulse.
It seems as though he may have followed one of those impulses into the abyss.
Protect yourself. Fix yourself. Take care of yourself. People are depending on you and YOU are depending on you. YOU is what you are going to need to rely on through this ordeal either way it turns out.
Be definite! Make your decisions clearly and logically. And stop being his life line to the shore. He will have to face the reality at some point that this is enough. Don't take the soft side when it come to yourself.
Be strong.
Take care and God bless, Moon
Argue your limitations and sure enough, they are yours. - Richard Bach
You've got alot to process right now, with all the info given to you. I just stopped by to say sorry you're here, but given your sitch there's no better place to be. Post here often if you need/want. There is hope here. Hope for you and your babies.
Thank you all sooo much for your advice. It really helps me see what I need to do during this difficult time. I told him yesterday to list the house and he said he was going to. We will see if that happens. I got argumentative and told him that I have made alot of changes to myself in the last month and he sees them but still says it cant be fixed, I said he doesnt know that and he said he does and I said no you dont and that is where we left it. I had to meet him today to get the kids and before I said hello or anything I said that I wanted to forget about yesterday and be friends. I hope that was the right thing to do. Im going to try with everything in me just to be his friend and not discuss anything about the realtionship for awhile. I am just going to back off and not pursue it and Im going to tell him that Im not yet ready to sell my house. I hope that is a good idea. Please let me know if its not. Thanks again for all your advice you really are a great bunch of people and I hope I get to know you all better during this extremely difficult time in my life. Heather
Hi I just wanted to bump this back up as I really could use the advice and I know topics tend to get lost quickly as there are so many wonderful people here. Thanks (see above post) Heather
You've got it. No more R/M talk. Don't mention any changes you make (and by the way, make them only for YOU). I'll give you an example, the lovely LBS diet has left me 50lbs thinner. My ha has said nothing about my weight or the clothes I wear or when I wear make-up. Not one peep. Know what? That's fine, b/c I'm not doing it for him. I feel good and I look good and I focus on that.
If you're not ready to sell the house fine. You can drag you feet. There are others here much more experienced than me with this. As far as being "friends", they all seem to say that. There's a really good post on here (by Jack Three Beans) about that. If I may paraphrase, first you let them go, then you get to know them again , then you can start to become friends, then see where it leads. I think this is good b/c we don't know these people anymore and you wouldn't meet someone today and be "best friends".
This is all really hard, so post here often and if you need to vent....definately come here and do it (don't do it to him).
If you haven't read the stuff at the top of the list do that. You might also search for posts made by Was2sad, Rollercoasterride, Jack_Three_Beans and happy_again. There are so many who have valuable things to say so read away. It does help, I promise.
OK well yesterday my H had the kids and I had to meet him to get them. Well he came here to watch the kids decorate eggs and took the booster seats for the car by accident. I had to call him and have him bring them back. When he got here we were ready to go and as he was strapping my son into his seat he looked over at me and asked where we were going. I just told him we were going up to Simcoe (a nearby town). I couldnt help but wonder why he wanted to know. This isnt the first time he has asked where I was going with or without the kids. Then today I had to go to where he was staying because he accidentally got one of the kids that lives there shoe. I had to go there and switch them. I took some coffee for them all, the people he is staying with are mutual friends, and chatted with everyone for a bit then H went to get his cigs to go and have a cigarette (he smokes in the garage) as he was going out to have one he gave me a look that said he wanted me to come to. It was a look he always gives me when he wants me to do something or come somewhere with him. Melted my heart Ill tell ya lol. Anyway, those are the events for the day. We will see what tomorrow brings as he is spending the whole day here watching the kids find their Easter stuff and helping me cook dinner. I hope you all dont mind if I use this as kind of a journal. I would like it to be somewhere that I know noone will see. I also welcome opinions on the events of the last couple days. Thanks Heather
Okay, here goes. Practical advice? Maybe, maybe not. Here is what worked with my kooky husband.
Everytime he wanted to sell the house, after he filed for divorce, I would say "my lawyer hasn't advised me what to do yet." Actually, I used that for almost everything. I received more speeches than I care to remember about how "your lawyer is your advisor, not your decision maker" and my personal favorite "jaysus, j, you don't know how to do anything!"
Be prepared for the snark. It may come, hot and heavy.
Before he filed for divorce, and wanted to talk about selling the house, I would say "that depends." Depends on what? On what the future holds. He put that in his pipe and smoked it more than once.
did this help with not divorcing, or help with his MLC??? I sincerely doubt it, but it did remove me from interaction with the kookiness. Any relief from the kookiness is greatly appreciated.
Please prepare yourself, as MoonDog said much more nicely, for an ow. For vast amounts of stupidity. For debt. Neglect of children. Any time you say to yourself "MY husband would never do that," smack yourself upside the head. He would, and he probably will.
Sorry. Not trying to rain on your parade. Dang, I sound negative, don't I?
Sweetie, we've each been where you are, and we have hope that each of us will come out of this, wiser, stronger, faster. Because we will. And you will too.
