HSPs (Highly Sensitive People) in Love

[mrsc]

My old thread has locked up at the perfect time because I've decided to move in a different direction in my attempts to improve my R/M.

I picked up "The Highly Sensitive Person in Love" and I've read about half of it. I am finding it enlightening because I think the keys to understanding the difficulties between H and me lie in the truths in the HSP books.

I see now that my personality (there may be a better word than this) is really a combination of three things: 1) personality type (Enneagram type 4), 2) attachment style (preoccupied), and 3) temperament (highly sensitive person AND non-high sensation seeker).

This probably isn't news to many of you. It wasn't news to me, really. I understood the importance of knowing all this about myself. But, what I didn't "get" was that even if two people have the same Enneagram type, they might see things quite differently, especially if one was HSP, and the other was not. Unless we know our standing in all three "areas," we are missing pieces of the pie. Without all the pieces, we may find ourselves in lots of cheeseless tunnels.

This may be why fearless says she "gets" cac4. Lil believes that fearless is a type 5 as is cac4, AND I believe fearless has stated that she is an HSP, as is cac4. I don't know fearless' attachment style, but cac4's is dismissive avoidant. This also explains why Lil "gets" me. We are both type 4s and HSPs. Lil, what is your attachment style?

I've come to the conclusion that cac4 and I won't be able to make any real progress with our R until we explore and understand our HSP-ness (both alone and in relation to the other two components) and how it has affected ourselves and our R.

The other very important reason to try to understand all of this is because I suspect that S3 will be both a type 5 and an HSP.

I suspect that our mutual HSP-ness drew cac4 and me together. In many ways we are alike. When we met we were music students spending our days immersed in music. This is an HSP's dream. For us, music is an incredibly emotional experience. Of course it can be for non-HSPs as well, but for HSPs it is spiritual, it speaks to us at deep, core levels. (I'm not sure that I'm explaining this well. Maybe Lil can help me out. ) cac4 and I talked about how we each felt like we belonged at music school, no doubt because we were around other HSPs like ourselves. At music school it was safe to be a highly sensitive person, and as HSPs, we thrived in that environment.

[Cobra]

MrsCAC,

So are you saying that you each found a way to fill your own "holes" through each other and music school, that without either of these you would each feel more "empty" in some way, that the spirituality of the music and the HSPness of each other helped to fill in these "holes?"

[mrsc]

A few points in the book so far that jumped out at me:

HSPs can be unusually afraid of both intimacy and conflict.

HSPs growing up in stressful, unhappy families are more likely than non-HSPs to have the characteristics that other research has found to be most dangerous for relationships: pessimism, low self-esteem, depression, anxiety, and an insecure attachment style.

cac4 and I both are HSPs/non-HSSs:

They are usually reflective and tend to be happy with a quiet life; not impulsive, not seeing much reason to take risks.

Also:

Dismissive avoidants will say that they have no memories of their childhood, or say things like, "Oh, Mom tried to kill herself a few times, but it didn't bother me much." Or "Childhood? Fine." And nothing more. Feelings are minimized.

Preoccupieds will tell you the equivalent of a book about their childhood when you only asked a one-sentence question. { }

And finally:

Insecures tend to be attracted to each other, even though they can also make each other miserable (imagine the increased insecurity an avoidant dimissive would create in a preoccupied or fearful avoidant).

[mrsc]

Maybe I am. I can't speak for cac4, obviously, but I think it is true for me.

I have always been uncomfortable with the concept of spirituality, mostly because I didn't understand what it meant. I grew up in a conservative religion, and although I have rejected the beliefs of that church, I never felt like I had anything to replace them. Spirituality was something I never could quite put my finger on.

I said already that I picked up "Superior Man" and I looked through some of it. I started having more light-bulb moments and now I'm getting a sense of what spirituality means to me. Music is definitely a big part of it. (Part of my revelation may be due to my weekend choral performance in my replacement church--I feel "at home" both making music, and in that church.)

I'm starting to think that I didn't know what spirituality was because I didn't understand and accept (love) myself. That probably makes no sense. I still haven't made sense of it myself.

Put simply, music made me feel like I was OK. It didn't make me feel like a bad person, an inherently flawed person. It made (and makes) me feel good. As a kid, I didn't often feel that way. I don't think cac4 did either.

cac4 talked recently about something from his childhood. He was a member of an exclusive boy's choir and was (is) an exceptional singer/musician. His best friend was a member of the choir too. The friend was accepted to attend a boarding school in NY on a singing scholarship. (I apologize in advance to H because I know I won't remember all the details.) The friend got free room and board at the school in exchange for singing in the boy's choir. Think of it as music school for pre-adolescent boys. When they weren't doing their school work, they were studying music, practicing, performing. A very similar environment to the one cac4 experienced at the college level. cac4 would have been accepted to the school easily. cac4 desperately wanted to attend this school, but his parents wouldn't let him, because they thought it wouldn't be good for him to be away from his family! Can you imagine? It would have been the BEST thing they could have done for him.

[fearless]

cac4 would have been accepted to the school easily. cac4 desperately wanted to attend this school, but his parents wouldn't let him, because they thought it wouldn't be good for him to be away from his family! Can you imagine? It would have been the BEST thing they could have done for him.

Can you imagine what CAC4 had to do to survive a family that didn't want the best for him? It seems obvious to me that he HAD to protect himself from his parents because they truly were not interested in his feelings or best interests. The problem is those protective mechanisms were necessary for his self esteem then but those same protective mechanisms distance him from you now. When you try to get him to express his feelings he may have automatic reflexes to protect himself from you. That's why there may be a longer pause when he goes to answer questions from you.

That long pause is difficult for you because of your relationship with your mother where she wasn't there for you and your high anxiety feelings. Within that long pause you are worrying about all the potential negative things he must be thinking. When in reality he is not thinking negatively at all but is worried about exposing his feelings to you. CAC4 can you imagine how alone MRsCAC4 felt with her mother and how she didn't want to feel that aloneness from you, her love and husband?

This is Cobra's point that FOO issues are the 4th issue in addition to the 3 you've already commented about. Although so many of these issues interact along the way also.

My attachment style is secure (Low avoidance and low anxiety) which is probably a big difference between me and CAC4. My family is a HUGE source of comfort for me. I completely trust them and I know they ONLY care about my best interests. I have come to understand that I am extremely fortunate for that relationship even with all the other difficulties in our family. I think the positive gift of being able to rely on my parents outweighs ANY negatives. That doesn't mean I don't have to recognize and WORK on the negatives! I just appreciate the good that they did for me and my brothers.

There is a quote from "Guess WHo's coming to dinner?" that has always summed up how I feel parents should feel about their children.

Because you brought me into this world. And from that day you owed me everything you could ever do for me like I will owe my son if I ever have another. But you don't own me! You can't tell me when or where I'm out of line, or try to get me to live my life according to your rules.


I know my parents feel that way about my brothers and me. It is such a great gift to know that your parents are happy with you as you are.

[MJontheMend]

Just dropping in to say that my 2bx is clearly a HSP based on the definition you gave. HSPs should NEVER marry Type 7s! And vice-versa of course. That is why I am currently seeking the most Teflon-coated Terminator-like man possible for my next relationship.-LOL.

[Cobra]

MrsCAC,

I'm starting to think that I didn't know what spirituality was because I didn't understand and accept (love) myself. That probably makes no sense. I still haven't made sense of it myself.

This makes a lot of sense to me. Could it have something to do with what you imply here:

Put simply, music made me feel like I was OK. It didn't make me feel like a bad person, an inherently flawed person.

Why did you feel bad or flawed? Not that I need an answer, but there obviously had to be something in your childhood which was not comforting or safe, something that helped to create this “damage” to you. Just as Fearless describes, both you and CAC had to self protect in order to survive. When a child has to do that, they learn that other people are dangerous and the only one they can really trust is themselves.

If you did not grow up in a strongly religious home, then that lack of trust in people might have spilled over to a lack of trust in religion. My W does not really know where she stands vis a vis religion. She has a hard time trusting any sort of God. The only person she ever drew comfort and security from was herself. Everyone else failed her. Turning herself over to love means placing a certain degree of trust in someone else. That is like asking her to stand under a suspended piano.

So even though she has come to understand where many of her issues come from, she still feels the fear. Overcoming that feeling takes time, and that is where CBT can help, IMO. So at lest know that you are not flawed, in fact, you are quite healthy. If you were not, you may not have survived to this day.

So try to recognize the survival strategies you had to use, know that those threatening times have passed, and that you can lay down your defenses because they are not longer needed. Try to see the world a safe pace to trust again.

BTW,

because they thought it wouldn't be good for him to be away from his family! Can you imagine?

Read these types of statements to really say “because they thought it wouldn't be good for THEM to be away from HIM!”

[fearless]

HSPs should NEVER marry Type 7s! And vice-versa of course. That is why I am currently seeking the most Teflon-coated Terminator-like man possible for my next relationship.-LOL.

Come on Mojo, I never thought you'd be one for throwing ABSOLUTES out there!

Seriously HSPs, I think, are a varied group. While I believe I am HSP in many ways, I am not held captive by these feelings either. Lots of noise is not relaxing for me but I can handle it well enough to work in a manufacturing plant environment, travel through airports 2x per weeks, etc.

I am also not emotionally HSP being that I am teflon coated. I LOVE debates, conflicts, arguments, etc. Sarcasm is one of my favorite ways to communicate. That is also why I am not HSP in the way Lillie is. I don't need a partner to validate my actions. They are what they are (my actions and decisions) and I trust my judgment of them. What I need is acknowledge that whether my partner agrees or not with my decision or actions that they still LOVE me. Different things IMO.

Ironic on not, the Level one description of a 7 fits my outlook on life perfectly.

Assimilate experiences in depth, making them deeply grateful and appreciative for what they have. Become awed by the simple wonders of life: joyous and ecstatic. Intimations of spiritual reality, of the boundless goodness of life.

During my second separation while I was unemployed sleeping on my friends' couch, I had such a gratefulness about life in general. it was spring and the sights and sounds of spring give me such joy and happiness. I love walking/hiking through a woods in the spring just being in nature with the sounds, smells and colors. How can one NOT feel that life is good?

[MJontheMend]

Come on Mojo, I never thought you'd be one for throwing ABSOLUTES out there!

I know, I know. But it wasn't just the case in my marriage that my H's emotional HSP was in conflict with my Teflon. His physical HSP drove me nutZ and vice versa. He was constantly noticing minor variations in brands of coffee, complaining about me wiggling my foot in his line of vision, bringing a pleasant hike to a sudden end because he was itchy etc. He couldn't understand how I could possibly relax and read a book if the living room was slightly messy or the kids were being noisy or he was feeling hungry etc. We really were an odd, unhappy couple.

[fearless]

His physical HSP drove me nutZ and vice versa. He was constantly noticing minor variations in brands of coffee, complaining about me wiggling my foot in his line of vision, bringing a pleasant hike to a sudden end because he was itchy etc. He couldn't understand how I could possibly relax and read a book if the living room was slightly messy or the kids were being noisy or he was feeling hungry etc.

I know I am being argumentative but it really wasn't his HSP so much as his intolerance and complaining, right? What if rather than not understanding you, he had been in awe of you? "That is so great that you can block things out and just relax." Wasn't it his judgment of you and unappreciation of your talents that was the problem?

Partly I wonder if I really am HSP but I know I never let my HSP issues get in the way of enjoying life. Rather I let them HELP me get more enjoyment. An itch, blister, etc would NEVER end a hike for me. The overwhelming enjoyment from being outside would more than compensate for any issue. I can sympathize a little with you in that I love laying out in the sun and XH was very pale and sensitive to the sun so he didn't like being in the sun with me. Although he didn't judge me and I didn't judge him, I just wished he could enjoy soaking up the sun as much as I did. Then again it was peaceful and relaxing to be out there on my own reading a great book or just enjoying a great summer day - the lushness of the green grass, cows grazing in the field, hawk calling and flying overhead, cloudwatching, etc. I MISS that.