"No matter how successful we are at work, women are judged by the condition of our households. We feel guilty if our homes aren't beautiful. We assume we're the point person for this stuff. We've got hundreds of years of tradition telling us that we are."
This is (a big reason) why MsHairdog calls Hairdog to complain about the towels. She knows she needs him to pitch in, but she is ultimately responsible for the condition of her house. The condition of the house is a reflection on HER, not him. People (or she) will judge HER on the condition of the house, not him. The sad thing is that it isn't likely that men will be doing the judging. Most of that comes from other women.
I know what this feels like because I've struggled with it for years. I do OK letting things go on a day to day basis, but I become a crazed lunatic when we're expecting company. I mostly feel disgusted with myself for letting things go. I never see it as H's fault because the house is my responsibility, especially now because I'm a SAHM.
I'm sure this is a common denominator among LD women.
mrs cac, I know hd can defend himself... but I don't think you have as complete a picture of their sitch as some of us who have been around here almost three years.
Quote:
This is (a big reason) why MsHairdog calls Hairdog to complain about the towels. She knows she needs him to pitch in, but she is ultimately responsible for the condition of her house.
He doesn't just pitch in-- my understanding is that he does the bulk of the housework. There are deeper issues at work here. Your point is true, but you also have to throw in mrs hd's type 1 perfectionism and a whole lot of other cr@p, too.
I didn't mean to imply that this is their only problem, and I do realize that I don't know much about their situation. I'm aware that HD does the bulk of the housework and cares for their D after school until his W gets home.
I just wanted to comment on how Ms.HD probably views the house and her overall responsibility of it. I don't think it's so much about who does what; it's all about how it's done. Because of her personality type and the fact that she's a woman, she'll never be satisfied with HD's efforts when it comes to her house.
I'm positive my mother was a not-so-great functioning 1 so I think I understand the perfectionism and controlling behavior of a 1. I know how my mother viewed her house and I think it would have been the same, whether or not she was the primary breadwinner. (She wasn't.)
IMO this is just one reason (of many) that women spend so much energy on things that aren't truly important in the big picture.
Great topic! And yes I think judging women about how their house is kept is something that women can be worse about (although some men do it also). Again I was exposed to this issue early because of my mom. Her parents were the worst about judging her about her housekeeping skills and she let herself be deeply affected by their judgment. And she also assumed others judged her just as harshly.
While this issue may not be the only or biggest factor in LD women, I cannot help but agree that it is probably interacting somewhere in the midst of everything. Even for me, a non-LD woman, whether the dishes were done was a factor at times in my desire for sex. I would prefer at times to finish them before going upstairs for the evening. xH would say "just relax we can do them in the morning". I would explain that I knew he meant well by this and was trying to relieve pressure but sometimes just getting the dishes completed made it much easier to relax rather than knowing they were just sitting there waiting for morning. Anyway I am just saying just by having a husband aware of this aspect and RESPECTFUL of it and being willing to help out could be a big help. Many of the guys here probably already some things. The only help I might offer is to specifically ask what needs done or if they are doing something correctly. Because you may be doing some things but not the "ONE" thing that would be a REAL help or, not in HD's case!, some women may not criticize your help but may feel that you're just making more work for them at times.
It is not an absolute that housekeeping is a problem for all women. Funny enough that a friend's brother is the one who does the majority of the housework in his family on top of being the one with the full time job. His wife is relaxed, ditzy, and does not seem to have a perfectionist drive so he feels he has to do it to get it done at all and to do it right. It is interesting because I have known him forever and would have pegged him as the "woman's work" and "man's work" type of guy but I guess not. And it does work for them.
Lillie,
I think you brought up a good point. For all relationships that are usually all sorts of issues jumbled up. It is hard to figure which came first, which is biggest, which will be hardest to change, etc. Sometimes it can help to clean up some of the smaller more minor issues especially if they are things you can control on your own. Then it can be easier to see the larger issues.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
THis is in Wild at Heart as well. They describe it as HER castle, but it is HIS job to make sure the castle is in fine working condition. The point is that men must make sure that they actually keep the house in the shape the women wants, and I am not talking about laundry. It is mostly about the upkeep of the house.
My wife frequently asks me along about Thursday and Friday what MY plans are for the weekend. She usually askes this after telling me what SHE is going to do. It is like every weekend I had better have a project around the house to work on. One of my goals is to start spending all of my free time doing these projects. Watch the game, bad. Play a video game, bad. Work on PROJECTS, good. This is the MANLY thing to do, in her eyes.
This is in no way a criticism...because I don't know how much time you watch a game on tv or play video games but this is an observation from my own home. My H has many projects going on around our house, building a loafing shed, building a garage, finishing a storage shed, landscaping...etc. BUT he spends a great deal of his free time playing his "war games" on the computer, or watching his hunting shows.
Now, while I don't begrudge him either of these activities I do definitely get tired of seeing all the unfinished projects and listening to him talk about all the stuff he has to do....when he wastes so much time. It's become a running joke in our house now because he says "I guess talking about (or looking at it) it won't actually get it done will it?"
I can tell you from this woman's POV that I take pride in my house, and yes...I feel guilty when it's not as clean as I'd like inside. I also feel guilty when my H tries to help me out and does stuff I consider to be my job (although I bite my tongue and just appreciate the fact that he helps....because I do appreciate it. The guilt of him helping is my own issue.) I don't just take pride in the interior of the house though, I also take pride in the exterior...and there are so many projects not yet finished that well...look unkempt. It can build resentment in me when he sits inside talking about the projects, playing his games or watching tv (while I do my chores...at least some of them while he's doing those things) and his "projects" remain unfinished....because honestly, I end up doing my stuff AND watching our child too while he does his thing. It feels unequitable, especially since we both work outside the home.
I often ask my H what he has planned for the day too. Not to find out if he's going to work on a project or if he even plans to...but so I know if he needs to run any errands, or if there are any events he'd like to go to as a family (Home & Garden shows, Car shows, etc.) That way if I need to I can alter what I have to do to accomodate his wishes as well.
Hmmmm. It was always my mother's adage: "Corri, you don't clean a house because it is dirty. You clean a house to keep it from getting dirty."
Needless to say, I was a clean FREAK (though that gene somehow skipped my brother). For the first seven years of my M, I drove myself darn near insane, trying to keep a perfect house, kids, job, cooking, etc. The Superwoman Syndrome... Mrs. Cac is right... no matter how much help you have in cleaning, ultimately it is YOUR responsibility.
As my kids got older and I started taking them to other people's houses for play dates... and I would literally walk into what I could only consider one step above a war zone, I started to relax a little. Compared to a lot of people, and the conditions in which they lived... I was flippin Chef Emeril, Martha Stewart and Mr. Clean all rolled into one.
But ultimately... it is the woman's responsibility to GET OVER herself, and relax a little bit. The dirt will be there when you get home, ya know?
Mrs. HD needs to seriously relax. That's just my opinion, of course. Course, HD could always moonlite as a Butler and Au Pair... he'd make a killing.
I want to clarify: Her criticisms are not made because she is worried about what other people will think about the state of the house. It's that SHE has to see it. Getting ready for our infrequent guests is a whole other level of scrutiny, and one I can actually handle, probably because I understand it.
(fearless) The only help I might offer is to specifically ask what needs done or if they are doing something correctly. Because you may be doing some things but not the "ONE" thing that would be a REAL help or, not in HD's case!, some women may not criticize your help but may feel that you're just making more work for them at times.
Erf. This reminded me of my marriage. I'll never forget my xW telling me (more than once) that if I did 90% of a task she wanted me to do, I might as well not have done any of it, because unless she could totally cross something off her list, my help wasn't helpful.
That made compromise very tough. I did the laundry until I dried too many of her things that weren't supposed to go in the dryer. Could we switch to me doing all my laundry and all the boys' laundry while she did her own? Nope. That's only doing 75% of the job, so she might as well do all of it. Same with loading the dishwasher...I wasn't as efficient at it and since I didn't load it the way she did, I couldn't help at all.
So if the ONE thing a woman wants help with is relatively straightforward ("don't leave shoes in front of the door"), then fine. If it gets involved, she needs to allow her H some room to be his own person and not just an extension of her, doing everything exactly the way she'd do it.
(cemar) This is the MANLY thing to do, in her eyes.
Who cares? What's the MANLY thing to do, in *your* eyes?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
