A follow up on a reply to Lil. Lil said I haven't noticed any changes in my desire level or physical "abilities." My reply Smoking! WTG! ^5. Lucky doll!
My amended reply is: I am glad you didn’t have many of the problems that some women have.
I realize this can also be a problem if your partner doesn't appreciate this good fortune you have. I am reffering to the old miss match situation. One wants the other doesn’t.
I posted You want some female company???? BB would love your cats and dog. After thinking about it for a while, it “might have” sounded like I was leaning on you to change/fix BB. That isn't what I had in mind. I wished BB had some friends like your friends, but that is something too that isn’t something I get IRL Santa Clause list= Yes. In hand=NO.
Old business; The chatter during sex the other night, well the place was in the paper so we went to an open house. Why do I post this?
If it was that important to BB, I wanted her to see and I know she did too. It was an interest of hers. A couple of years ago, this sort of thing would have caused me mild resentment, but no more. Maybe some differentiation is taking place.
Some conflicts going, because BB was worried we couldn’t do our normal activities and include the open house with out being late. Me=yes we can, her no we can’t, we will be late. Did both with 5 minuets to spare and where we were going had a 15 minuet window. We were the 3rd couple there.
It helped to have an attitude I saw demonstrated when I was living in the south and saw in movies, a gentle "be still" "hush now" demeanor, used to quieten someone’s anxieties.
Open mouth, insert foot: I made a comment to an acquaintance about the internet and got home and took my own advice. I Goggled a term and up popped the SSM. Now what?
If someone does look at the posts I made, I hope they also see all of the effort I put in my R with BB.
More about your last post cobra when I have time.
Screen name? DYI= Do it yourself ~I need to Do it myself. That is, “with help”
Cobra: Lou, if this true, why does she only have sex with you after you have put your foot down and withdrawn from the M. She doesn’t like sex but is willing to do it if she thinks/sees I am losing interest in the R. She wants more R, goodies, foot rubs, attention, chasing, with less sex. Maybe another Mrs. Choc. Chase but don't catch.
Physical problems do not mean emotional connection has to fall off. Sex does not drive EC, it is the other way around. When there is a fair amount of resentment or what ever else BB has, coupled with the lost EC from years of problems , add physical discomfort, and not liking sex that much, I can see the EC dropping in most R’s.
I would speculate if there were more EC, we could get past the physical problems by proceeding with sex slower, and it still could be good. No Mojo, monkey or lioness stuff.
Don’t worry about her mood. That is hers to overcome. Don’t let your guilt give her a way out. Like I said in my previous reply, I have an internal Hush, no need to fret attitude right now.
You should not have to put up with robotic sex. Actually, it’s more like "there" but "doesn’t want to be there" type sex.
But consider who you are working with and all her issues. The disconnect, the talking during sex, is not about you, I know that.
it is not a way to withdraw from you, or a way to hurt you, it is not her trying to be rude or selfish, I agree. It's still self-centered on her part IMO.
it is about her being scared to face intimacy and her way of protecting herself. If you can see any validity in that statement (and I think you really need to step back and see why I say that) I am in agreement so far.
Then your next question should be why does she feel that way and what role did you play in allowing that state of mind to come about? Why she feels that way?
a. sex is for people with hormones and she doesn’t have many. b. sex is over or drastically decreases for menopausal women, except for the odd women. c. typical poor self image, belly is too big, fat thighs, and varicose vanes should/would scare a normal guy off, d. guys my age almost always have ED. e. she retired and sex is for working people. Retired people are too old and don’t have a lot of energy. :major eyeroll from me:
Before and when first M, BB was enthusiastic about sex. That does not sound like someone who has FOO related sexual issues. We were both hi drive but I kept mine in check. Bb was also insecure and I responded to her flirtations. She liked that. I came very highly recommended to her as someone to trust 100%. She let her hair down and saw me respond. In some ways, she could be the wilder child knowing I wasn’t going to let anything get out of hand.
Sometime during your marriage she developed these defenses. Me, being super responsible, and working the hours it took, giving it my all, left BB wanting for more of my time. I didn’t see it when it happened; she took an interest in the pastor at a new church we were attending. He and his w were very attentive and visited us often. Picture membership building here.
Picture me a tired lathered up horse, working sun-up to sun-down and the P, Mr. kool, confident, smells good, has time to recruit members, super talker (big BS’er if the truth were known).
Me working too many hours was the root of the problem. Working too much caused half of my back problems. I am still paying. L That is where most of the defenses/withdrawing starts, me working too much.
They could be related to FOO issues ….. Yes, she and I have FOO issues.
….. (and probably are) but they may have been triggered by a slow, long disconnect between you two over the years. Johnson, in her book about adult attachment, says trauma can develop in this way too. Try problems since 1981, maybe before if you count me working too much.
Could it be the BB has always been an insecure person and over the years she has had to steel herself over one crisis after another (at least to her they might have been crisis, to you or me they were nothing).
I heard the stories of her childhood. She had some traits that many kids have that I call picky. Early in the M she wasn’t picky. When she went to work at the hospital and the hospital was selling their co-dependency treatment program on TV adds, that is when the bigger changes started to take place. After reading about FOO here, I started to see the connections between her FOO issues and other relatives. Some Foo traits alike, some different.
Now she is so scared she can’t even come out of her shell for something that should give her the greatest comfort of all, having sex with you. Cobra, I see a person that thinks sex isn’t important, will do it to prevent a WAS, and feels like sex and work go together. She wants to retire from both.
Your description of her anxiety over winter electrical supply, food storage, the security of her future retirement, the compulsive shopping (sort of like a squirrel storing of a hoard of nuts for the winter), all seem like anxiety driven behavior to me. I agree.
You are an emotionally detached person Lou. In one way (practical) Cobra, but not in other ways.
But BB needs more that just your stability and your reliability. Remember Dieda says the man’s objective is his purpose, but concerning the relationship, he must share his success with his woman to give her security. Do you think BB would say you do this? Why don’t you ask her? I did ask her. After sitting with her for an hour and watching TV, here the latest.
She said she trusts me, has security, and I do share my success . What is missing is, I am not open to new ideas and resist change. She wants a one level house with walk in closets, in the city on a small lot so if I keel over, she can take care of everything. Which means a new house with someone else to do the outside work as in a patio home w/ a condominium style maintenance agreement. New things for the house and loser purse strings. It also included getting rid of 40% of what we have now so when we move, it will be easier. I said, “It sounds like me being more flexible is doing what you want to do. I don’t see where flexible includes some of the things I want, that is unless you think you are flexible and I don’t appreciate what you do for me.
End the sex early….I understand your intent. Your method, in light of BB’s anxiety, is not giving results. No results as in any measurable improvements, but some change in direction for me. I didn’t go along accepting crumbs w/o saying or doing anything, like I have done in the past.
Yes, it is scary. Would it help you feel less anxious if BB understood what you feel and tried to help you feel more supported? This is a serious question.. I covered some of this in the hour conversation we had today. No sex talk.
She might also be filled with resentment that you have not tried to pull out before now. So when you try, she might push back. Expect this. I tried to pull her out before. What is different now is, no rewards for her giving thr right answers and no put downs if I hear an answer I don’t like. I had to get to a point where I don’t give a darn much, one way or the other. When I play and go for the first down, get serious, feel it’s do or die, it doesn’t work. I can see that wanting something isn’t much different than being needy. The MC even has this in his sessions. Don’t act desperate
She does not trust why you are doing this now. What changed in Lou to suddenly start caring about her feelings? Like I said, I care about my feelings and happiness more, got thicker skinned.
That is why trust is so important, as Mrs. NOP always stresses. Trust??? Yes very important. I suppose trying to keep things from getting too rough by pleasing and smoothing over problems is in some ways not being honest and damages trust.
But THIS is the core of leadership. THIS is where you truly take the role of the man. THIS is where you show her that you are fighting for her, that you care for her, and she can restore her faith in you. There is nothing she can do to help you in this. This task is all on your shoulders and yours to bear alone. Be prepared first. It’s back to the either way, I will be fine, you will be fine. Maybe leadership is making a plan with the OP’s input, needs, concerns, and not worrying about some of the complaints.
I don’t think this is necessary, the one step at a time part. Don’t limit your pace by what you THINK she can endure I am not going on over load right now.
Once you get some momentum, do not let it go. Be prepared first. My problem is I let up when I see progress. I reward too small a step in the right direction.
Today, Mrs. NOP trust ideas are bouncing around in my head. I had some different opinions and voiced them to BB, but I still kissed her when we were finished talking.
Great to hear you and BB had a good talk. I thought this comment was interesting:
She wants a one level house with walk in closets, in the city on a small lot so if I keel over, she can take care of everything.
This sounds like one of those cracks in the shell to me. Perhaps you could explore this line of thinking a little more. It seems to go along wit the idea that she is scared of everything and driven by anxiety. I would push the topic to explore every little fear you can pull out of her. I see this as analogous to pulling her out of her shell. Did she put up much resistance to the talk?
What is missing is, I am not open to new ideas and resist change.
Probably some truth in here, well maybe a little more than some…. scratch that, I’d say very resistant to change. Let go of the resentment, Lou. Stop living in the past. Do you know how many times I’ve heard you say BB is “picky?” This is resentment, passive aggressive style. Where does this come from? Could it have something to do with that pastor?
Picture me a tired lathered up horse, working sun-up to sun-down and the P, Mr. kool, confident, smells good, has time to recruit members, super talker (big BS’er if the truth were known).
I know you say he and his wife came to visit, but it sounds like you felt excluded, just like someone with a spouse having an EA. Is there any lingering resentment around this?
Me working too many hours was the root of the problem. Working too much caused half of my back problems. I am still paying. L That is where most of the defenses/withdrawing starts, me working too much
Let me see, if I could have a nickel for each time Lou whined about how hard he worked….. I don’t mean to be insensitive, but it does get old to keep hearing this, and I can’t help but think there is resentment here too. Now wouldn’t it help if BB would only acknowledge the years of hard labor you did for her? Wouldn’t it mean so much to you if BB would say thank you. Tell her that. Then let go of the anger.
New things for the house and loser purse strings. It also included getting rid of 40% of what we have now so when we move, it will be easier.
I know this is an issue for you, her buying so much stuff, wasting tons of money, then having to dump it. It would really piss me off too. But, there is nothing you can do about it now. Perhaps you could think about openly forgiving her. Tell her how much it hurts for you to see her spend that kind of money when all you were doing was working to make her happy and secure. For her to throw that stuff out after all the labor you had to do to buy it feels like complete she does not care for you at all. You fell relegated to a pack mule. Yep, I know. I’ve felt exactly the same way. I know lots of other men have felt the same. Tell that to BB. Then forgive her. (Also mentally set some strong boundaries so that BS doesn’t happen again.)
This statement: She wants a one level house with walk in closets, in the city on a small lot so if I keel over, she can take care of everything.
Reminds me of when you took that trip last year. Didn’t she make comments worried that you might die and how would she manage. Didn’t she want a new generator? Do you see the pattern in all these topics, Lou? IMO this woman is scared of life, scared of losing you. She has too much ego to admit her true fears, so she deflects by trying to substitute material comfort for emotional comfort. You see this as her being selfish, picky, materialistic, shallow, and it pits you two in your own power struggle.
Can you see this? You want support, validation, acknowledgement, thankfulness from her. You get resentful and start to judge her. She pulls into her shell, turning her affection to the dogs, to her shopping (self soothing addiction), to ranting about the evils of the world on TV, all to passive aggressively defy your judgment. You experience that as her further withdrawing from you and exacerbating the cycle. Does this make any sense?
Do you see that breaking this cycle is really very easy? Remember that book I mentioned once by Steven Stosny, “You Don’t Have to Take it Anymore” (website http://www.compassionpower.com). His approach is to feel and express compassion for your SO, based on an understanding of the trauma s/he went through. That compassion will allow you to let go of the anger and resentment so you can move toward healing. It might be worthwhile giving this a revisit. I would press the issue of BB reading the book too, and coming to terms with her resentment. Radical honesty. Let her see your fears.
So with all this, can you see how you are really getting in your own way? Sure BB plays a role and she could break this cycle as easily as you, but you have the opportunity to take the lead. I do believe yours is one of the easiest marriages to turn around. CeMar’s seems to be similar. I think that is what Corri was seeing, if only he could see it himself.
Shouldn't that be "DIY" instead? Thanks. HD. Brain and fingers are out of sync. some times.
The reason for the change is connected to me doing what I can and not relying on someone else, some book, or even a MC to improve the M. It also relates to me detaching some more and spending more time fix/changing me. If others like the changes, fine. If not, that is the way it is going to be.
