Define: "EA"

[Cobra]

Fearless,

Not bad advice but extremely ironic when it comes out later that he is the one who needed that advice and not me.

That is frustrating when someone sees something but will not tell you, instead giving you clues to decipher. I see the same thing in coaches all the time. For instance, our TKD instructor is top notch, having trained two students who went to the Olympics. But for beginning students, I see him just telling them how to kick, maybe shows them a little, then let's them figure it out. For some, this works fine. For others, not so good. Especially me.

I think my kids and I have some of what is called “non-verbal learning disability.” I see similar traits in my kids and I. Once I have a mental picture of how to do something, then I’ve got it. I can turn it around in my head, I understand it backward and forward. But getting that picture is difficult. I am also very perceptive, so I can watch how my kids do their TKD kicks, or their tennis strokes. I can break it down into sections, including body positioning, leverage, lean, weight transfers, to show them how the movement should “feel.” Then I have them do it with their eyes close to incorporate the movement into their muscles. Then they have it.

I think many coaches cannot do this. So rather than learn to be a better coach, they throw their shortcomings onto the student to figure out. I see figuring out philosophy to be similar. Sometimes I don’t think the instructor knows the subject as well as s/he should, and has a hard time communicating. So instead, the default becomes “Look inside yourself.” Look for what, master? I could waste a few years searching my soul like you did, or you could save me the trouble, teach me what I need to know, so I can move to a higher level and surpass you. Mmmmm..... Maybe that’s what is all about..... just another way to stay "one up?"

[fearless]

Very interesting comments and I think what you wrote is very important for different learning styles. I would in no way consider it a "disability" rather a non-verbal learning ABILITY.

Funny enough that my friend, that I stayed with over the weekend, and I had a similar discussion about differences between people. She is a math teacher who had to give up teaching due to a disability. She's started teaching spinning classes and I went to one of her classes. The owner of the fitness center has a different opinion of how she SHOULD teach. For me, she was the perfect style. I can understand that he does not appreciate it but I feel that he misses the larger issue. Neither of their styles are absolutely right or wrong. It's a fact that people learn differently and he should be glad to have someone who differs from his style, IMHO.

I also have to laugh about the comment from xH. While I did not grasp how fully xH did not understand himself (and did not know he was projecting), I did understand that he was deflecting when he did that and he knew that I knew Humor really served us well in the early and midyears of our relationship. Good or bad we still had a lot of fun even with our dysfunctions!!

[Crazy Eddie]

Crazy Eddie I doubt very much if my H was talking about his feelings to OW more he was lonely living away from home started going to dinner with her as business friends and it may be she talked to him about problems SHE was having and he connected with her. He felt unneeded at home unappreciated and here was someone who NEEDED him. He then decided he was falling in love with her and vice versa but was realistic enough to know they had no future together.

The reason most wives get upset is that they see the danger of an EA becoming a PA how do you think most PA start? It is the secrecy and lies that a W will be upset about. If my H met someone for dinner on business and told me about it that would not be an A even if he talked about his personal problems with her. Why assume that your W/P is not going to want to listen to your problems we're not mind readers.
As for the person you're having the EA with of course it makes you happy that someone wants to be with you and doesn't judge you they don't see the real you. You are on your best behaviour with them not bad tempered or annoyed with lifes realities.

The wife catches wind of this emotional connection as you put it because (whether you realise it or not) you change and become withdrawn from her and you become MORE unhappy and it shows.
Instead of looking elsewhere for the connection and affection you should be trying to rebuild that with your wife.
Will read your previous posts from this one you could be my H. I would LOVE him to post on here he knows I do!

If my wife is on here, I haven't recognized any of her posts.

I learned some very bad habits growing up (which fall under the heading of "conflict avoidance"). As I saw it, my mother constantly scrutinized my every action and utterance, and probed my thoughts, feelings, hopes, and plans, looking for things that she could bitch me out for and pieces of evidence that she could use to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was a completely worthless piece of c***. (Not that she was actually following such a plan. At least I don't think she was. She was just short-tempered and dealing with a kid that was horrifyingly irresponsible, forgetful, and socially awkward, and increasingly secretive to boot, and nothing she did seemed to break him of any of it.)

So I spent my childhood doing my damndest to keep her completely in the dark about everything. I went and did the same thing to my wife and then moped because I didn't have any kind of emotional connection to her. Brilliant, huh?

At that point it was very easy to be drawn in by a woman that I felt "safe" opening up to precisely because she wasn't actually close enough and knowledgeable enough to hurt me (yet). That kind of bogus "emotional connection" can become quite addictive.

[shmagic]

Okay Eddie you are NOT my husband!!! His issues are way different to yours. I can relate completely to your childhood issues. My mother wad unable to show affection or love towards myself or my brother. Only as an adult did I recognise that when she lost a little girl at 2 yrs old when my brother and I were born she was afraid to love us in case she lost us too.

The only person she truly loved was my father and he died when I was 10 leaving her to cope without much money. She really shut down emotionally then and made our lives hell. I don't think she ever realised she was both emotionally and physically abusive towards us I tried to talk to her a little about it before she died and was told that her life would have been so much easier if I'd never been born. That made me feel really good about myself actually I think I always knew she felt that way.

I learned early on how to switch off emotions eg. I decided when she would punish me by smacking NOT crying drove her crazy so I wouldn't cry. Still don't cry
at least not very often. I can vividly remember being 13 or 14 and her raising her hand to hit me and telling her if she did I would hit her back that if she couldn't beat me verbally she shouldn't beat me physically. She never hit me again!! Actually I think she respected me more for standing up to her I was the one that wouldn't allow her to control me.

I can understand how hard it can be to let yourself really become close to someone you love because you are then giving the power to that person to hurt you the way your mother did.
I can see from your POV that NOT being in love with another woman you can open up more easily trouble is you're then taking something away from the relationship you could be having with your wife.
I can see where my childhood has affected my own R with my H I don't find it easy to receive affection I guess I'm always waiting for it to be withdrawn. My H knows I hate the word slut as that was my mothers favourite insult when growing up I was quote "a filthy little slut" this was for leaving a pair of trousers and a top on my bedroom chair. He used this word on me and I just laughed and said it doesn't hurt coming from him and I knew I shouldn't have told him. He never used that word again to me. It only hurts if you let it.

My self esteem was never damaged by my mothers behaviour but I would agree with you that it has made it very difficult to confront relationship problems. I tend to withdraw as a form of self preservation I guess. My H on the other hand looks elsewhere rather than talk to me he decides he's in love with someone else and either has a PA or EA so I withdraw even more and trust even less. Vicious circle which I have decided has to end. I've stopped saying I'm O.K if I'm not I've started explaining more how I really feel and what I would like from our marriage.

One of our mutual friends went through a divorce and I tended to be the one to be supporting emotionally but my H was aware of our talks so not an A. As soon as he was stronger emotionally we went back to mutual friends. I can see that if he had become dependant on me it could have been a problem.

Hope you can find a way to connect with your wife and don't allow an emotionally abusive childhood destroy the possibility of a great future.

[Crazy Eddie]

Hope you can find a way to connect with your wife and don't allow an emotionally abusive childhood destroy the possibility of a great future.

It can't destroy anything. Only I can do that or refuse to do that.

It doesn't matter whether my mom expresses remorse or whether she still talks to me or whether she behaves any differently or even whether she actually did anything wrong or not. What matters are the bad habits I practiced (based on my own perceptions at the time of what was going on) and continue to carry to this day. Why couldn't I let go of my fears the day I turned 18? At any rate, it's high time I did... it's getting in the way of everything I want and need to do with my life.

I did stop talking to other women a good while back... and got hooked on the Internet instead. Still looking for people to give me attention while staying a safe distance away, and neglecting the people that really want and need me to be close to them. And neglecting a lot of other things too, always feeling nervous when I take any tangible action or have a conversation.

Anyway, back to the topic... affairs (emotional and physical) are a way to get attention from other people who don't actually know you well enough to judge you, and a way to hide and withdraw from people who do know you well enough to judge you.

[DERaven]

This topic definitely hits a nerve with me. My XW had an EA (she says no PA but I guess I can never be sure) and married the OM 5 weeks after D was final. I do believe my inability to completely open up and be vulnerable contributed to my XW looking somewhere else. I was too scared of being hurt so I would close myself off and protest that "We shouldn't need each other." It was a self fulfilling prophecy.

As soon as she dropped the bomb and I finally understood much she was hurting, I realized how screwed up I was in my thinking. If I was to save my M or have a successful new R I had to be completely open and make myself vulnerable. Michele's solution based principles really spoke to me. I'm not sure of what FOO issues caused this but reading DR reinforced for me that I didn't need to know. That didn't have anything to do with the solution.

Unfortunately, I didn't save my M but I am in a new R (fearles) and have made a conscious effort to be vulnerable. I did begin to do this with XW but it was too late as she was in love with OM. Her words to me. I have had to force myself at times to open up and be honest with my feelings. Having success makes it easier. When a SO does not ridicule, tell you you shouldn't feel that way, and honestly appreciates the steps you are taking it makes it easier to stay open. Of course I had to overcome my fears and assumptions that I knew what her replies would be. Just having that first positive experience can reinforce R patterns. I couldn't imagine having this kind of intimacy with another woman. I have said and done things I could never do in previous R's and I realize how much I was missing. I would never want to jeopardize that.