The problem may lie in the use of the word entropy. It is perhaps one of the more poorly understood concepts around. In the literal microscopic thermodynamic definition, it is a measure of the number of available permutations of a given system. For a highly ordered system, the number of possible permutations is low, while a highly disordered state would have many more. It is therefore often used as a proxy for measuring the amount of disorder in a system. In the macroscopic definition, is a quantity that parameterizes a system (similar to temperature, free energy, enthalpy, etc.), and it is noticed that in any closed system, the entropy will always increase or remain constant over time, it never decreases. In equation form, the change in entropy is defined to be the change in heat transfer divided by the temperature. So you can see it has to do with heat, which is known to be inherently inefficient at conserving usable energy, and increases disorder in a closed system.
The problem is that entropy (proxy for order) is often misused to imply trends in the complexity of a system. Specifically, I often hear the Second Law of Thermodynamics (entropy always increases in a closed system) used as "proof" that evolution cannot occur. This assertion is completely baseless in the facts that increasing entropy does not imply that a system can locally become more complex, the Earth is not a closed system, and evolution is not a statistically random process, which is what entropy is limited to.
Don't know if this helps at all, or hurts. But I see Mojo's comments as implying that if we allow ourselves to, our lives will tend toward increasing disorder.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Good to hear from you again Dave. I always enjoy your posts.
I HIGHLY recommend voluntarily making a dramatic life change with a spouse in order to get better insights into the person you married
Me too.
All of us would love to have our spouse take more initiative. I think I'm still a bit sour-grapes that she's wired this way.
After reading this Ive been trying to remember my M SL. I think I would have to agree with you about the 90/10 split. Take heart in the fact that its 100/0 when you are single.
I dont know what to say about the fact that she is receptive, but not assertive or aggressive about her initiation. How is the frequency? When the frequency was high enough, we would often engage in PBTS type sex, making out, penetration, but no O for me, maybe a couple small ones for her (I couldnt really say for certain) but no focus by me on her having one. I get the feeling that when you ML without the O, it hits a couple areas. Primarily the one that demonstrates that you are not using her to get off. Secondarily.... That type of activity especially if really brief- say in the morning, would invariable lead to more and for whatever reason if she considered herself allready worked up, had no problem throwing down. I liken it to the constant 'temperture checks' and 'touching base' that they do verbally and emotionally. Quick. In and out.
Have you tried anything like that in conjunction with 'playful pushes'?
Im not going to encourage you to move back to where you vowed not to, or even move at all, but you need to extract out of her what is going on with her, resentment/need, thats not being handled. Pick a fight with her if necessary, that usually gets people honest.
Your in a foreign country. How has she done with the language barrier? Does she have female friends? Does she work? go to school?
Don't know if this helps at all, or hurts. But I see Mojo's comments as implying that if we allow ourselves to, our lives will tend toward increasing disorder.
You're on the right track in terms of what I was implying about our ability to "live" in the future or effect our future lives. Evolution does occur. Growth towards increasing order does occur in an open system. What also fascinates me about the concept of entropy is its relationship to information theory. I read Claude Shannon's "Mathematical Theory of Communication" but I must admit that I don't quite understand it. I was implying that the only reason we can't "live" in the past is that white noise degrades the quality of our memories.
When I say entropy is the devil, I mean that if we give in to despair that is the equivalent of seeing ourselves as closed systems, helpless pawns falling victim to statistically random processes. We become more fully human when we act as conduits of the sun's energy and see ourselves as living in an open complex system in which we can act to create even greater complexity or order. We can rage a little bit against the heat death of the universe by painting a picture, nursing a baby, canning some pickles, sanding a floor, singing in harmony, hanging the laundry out to dry, teaching a theory or even (especially?)f*cking like monkeys.
Just a little religion I created for myself one night after eating mushrooms when I was a physics major. So, grain of salt.-LOL
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Journey, Everything is great with our D8 outside the country. She goes to a school that rivals the best private schools in the states. She's in a Brownie troop and does other after school activities. She loves her school, has great friends and us - her parents. What else does a kid need? Plus, our neighborhood is a similar to any suburban housing development in the US. and she can ride her bike around and have some freedom that we wouldn't give her in the US.
My W (like other trailing spouses here) have a very hard time because it's not an easy place to get simple things done without help from a local person. But getting help from a local person requires the ability to speak the language. It adds major layors of complexity to everything and in the beginning it was a nightmare. But since we bought a car last year, we've been able to re-claim independence and run to grocery store, B&Q (HomeDepot) or furniture stores on a whim. That type of get-up-and-go type of freedom is what a car provides and is an unalienable american right. If you never had, you wouldn't miss it, but that allowed us both to reclaim our freedom.
But back to my W. She derives a huge amount of self-worth from being a great "domestic engineer" and mom. When she discovered that she was no longer in control, I think it shook her. Plus she had to endure this in isolation during the day. Now she has a good circle of friends and has found her groove with our housekeeper. It's quite funny how much work my W still does despite having a housekeeper. She will take the simplest task and fill her time with it. Then, she claims to be fiercely busy. RIght now, she's in the states to take care of some issues with our house and the amount of real work to be done is miniscule. It's a piece of cake with hired help and being a single parent (here) is very easy.
These times when she's in the US and I'm here with my D8 just undo her. Earlier this year she had go to the US and she had a panic attack about her separation from us. I think it's separation from our D8. I'm starting to see some potentially scary signs of "unhealthy" attachment to our D8. I'm fairly certain that our D8's dependancy on her is her source of "juice" (validation). Driving to the airport, she kept having crying spells because she was "worried" about us. She *realy* wants to feel like we *need* her. These breaks are probably good for her because they show that we love her without all the work she does.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
I assume you're talking about more initiative sexually? What would that look like to you?
Yes. She does initiate occasionally and it's never with any hints or context from me....it's like "snaps"..as if a remote-control, alien mind-control chip was activated. And when it does happen...it's very hot. Once she called me on my mobile from the upstairs bedroom and told me come "tuck her in". A few weeks ago, she even pulled me in for hot moment on the kitchen counter. My guess is that the frequency of this increased from about once a year to three times a year. Adding a few incidences each year would be nice but 100% year over each subsequent year would be incredible.
Originally Posted By: MrsNOP
Are you still dealing with sexual starvation?
"Starvation" seems like a strong word...maybe just a occasional "hunger pains". So much of my needs for sex were related to anxiety relief. My need for her to "desire" me is no longer an issue because I've made peace with the fact that it's nothing to do with me and even she acknowledges this as her issue in an compassionate way. Here, I have access to really good $7/hr. massages. I've also come to grips (great pun in 3..2..1...) with frequent MB.
My strategy right now is to just deal with the system we are in and maintain the comfort zone. But I'm also trying to use these overseas-opportunities (travel, mingling with locals, etc) to stretch ourselves. Who knows where it will lead but at least we are enjoying it now. I really think the solution to SSM (with someone who doesn't think there's a problem and doesn't get the whole 1x a week etc thing) is to NOT use sex as the point of conflict/assertion. When I was using sex as the "point of contention" it made the actually act feel "forced". Having some distance away from that time in our R has made it really refreshing and I think the slight improvement with her initiation is due to this.
Originally Posted By: MrsNOP
When you're talking about "give(ing) her something, but she doesn't want anything" - are you talking sexually or ?
Well, if I understand Schnarch correctly, there's a correlation between a person's approach to sex and their approach to life. If this is the case, then, like her "spurts" of desire, she should theoretically of spurts of other "wants" or interests. I *do* think the complexity of life here has made her get more in touch with her likes, dislikes, wants, and needs. I know it has for me.
Last edited by NotATLDave; 03/03/0706:23 AM.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Sounds like things are much more positive in your world. That is terrific and being an ex-Navy brat I concur that family moves offer new insights into ALL members of the family. Mostly, I think that kind of opportunity is great for everyone.
I liked your pun. What does your W feel about your solo SL? Does she ever wonder or ask you about any of it? Do you discuss porn use and that sort of thing? Or is it that she puts out what she is willing to and you are free to do as you wish on your own? I am interested in how an LD spouse might view this activity. I am bothered by my H's mb and porn viewing although I have no idea when, how often, or the content. It bothers me mostly from the standpoint that it doesn't occur to him that it saps his sexual interest in me which is already too low for my taste. I keep wondering how I would feel about it if I had "enough" sex. I like to think I am differentiated enough that it wouldn't bother me but since I have yet to have "enough" in this R I can't answer the question.
Also, in what area of your R are you LD partner? This was something I took away from Schnarch and I recall being honestly surprised about the areas of our lives in which I am LD.
Do you still see a C? Do you still discuss your SL or do you just live and let live at this point?
I am interested because there are several couples I see as kind of "graduates" - they are mostly happy, mostly working together on things and have achieved some acceptable version of a sex life. However, what that means is definately unique to every situation.
