I feel stumped because my H's sex drive did not deteriorate with time. It was never really there. He grew up in a home that had very repressed, negative views toward sex. He has been with other women but only when he was drinking. He had a fiance for 5 years previous to me that would not have sex with him due to her own childhood sexual abuse issues.
We met when I was 19 and he was 24. We married 2.5 years later. The first 3 years we were together was long distance so I didn't notice it as much but even then he wouldn't rush to make love after we had been apart for a while. It has always been one excuse after another usually coming back to he is too tired.
We have consistently done it aprox 3 times a month for the past 10 years when we were together. He has told me he just doesn't think about it. He will accept oral sex and give it when we do have intercourse but he hates to be touched anywhere else and says it tickles, even massages. Kissing is almost obsolete. I never initiate anymore b/c it hurts to much to be turned down 99% of the time. I have tried sexy lingerie, date night, everything and he just finds excuses or delays it, I get angry, he gives in, and then I don't enjoy the experience as it always feels like "pity" sex.
We are best friends and I know he loves me, and I certainly love him, but I cannot help feeling angry and cheated. My self-esteem is completely shot no matter what I tell myself. Whenever we dicuss it (which involves me crying and ranting on about how empty and worthless he is making me feel) he takes full responsibility, promises to do better, to go to the Dr., he promises the world, but never follows through for longer than a day. It is getting to the point after 7 years of marriage that I am starting to resent him. I am so sick of crying myself to sleep at night and holding onto the hope that he will one day start communicating his real feelings so we can build intimacy between us and hoping the sex will follow!
We have a toddler and I want to avoid D at all costs! Also my H is a great provider, father, friend, and a genuinely good person. I do believe he loves me, I have mentioned a seperation over this and he freaked out and begged me to give him a chance to do better, but he still didn't change. I have read the Sex-Starved Marriage 3 times and my husband read the first page, he came running out had sex with me and it has stayed on his nightstand for 6 months and he refuses to read it. Using the he is too tired excuse as usual.
Your post really bothers me because, honestly, what you wrote....is parallel to my previous sitch. So I want to clue you in to something that was going on in my sitch....so you can see if it's happening in yours.
My H said for YEARS that he never thought about sex...sounds familiar right? Well guess what...he did, just not with me. No, he wasn't out sleeping around.....BUT he was getting his sexual fix online. It's this whole whore/madonna comples (I'll explain more in a minute).
My H and I had been married just under three years (with a 2.5 year old son). Since the time I signed up on this BB I had been trying to figure out why my own husband would never initate sex with me....why he seemed to respect and love me, but not "want" me. Well...we got into counseling, but little did I know that he didn't really open up, he avoided doing the work he needed to. However,things really didn't get any better...so I felt like we were wasting our money. I just couldn't let go of this saying of mine though, which I believe to be quite accurate "if he's not getting it with me, he's getting it somewhere." Well, that's absolutely true....he was. No, not sleeping around like that phrase might indicate....but going online to places like adultfriendfinder.com, datematch.com etc and hooking up with women on there. E-mailing them, chatting with them, viewing their pornographic webcams and photos......can you imagine how crushed and angry I was to find that this man was doing this....and in his online profile he wrote things like "I'm a walking hormone ready for it all the time."???!!! This was a side of himeself he NEVER shared with me. My gut was right though....he was getting that sexual fix elsewhere.
So...how did I find this out? I installed a keylogger program on our computer. It took me less than 10 hours before I knew what he was REALLY doing. I highly recommend...that if for no other reason but your own peace of mind that you do the same thing.
Now, all of this may sound absolutely horrible....and well, yeah it was....but it was also the BEST thing that I ever did for our marriage, finding out what was really up. Ever since I confronted my H with PROOF that I knew what he was doing....our situation has improved. He had a BIG deep dark secret that he'd been hiding, and been ashamed of....and now that secret isn't there any longer.
FWIW though I had to put some teeth to this situation, I told him if he continued the behavior he would be out of the house, I wouldn't tolerate him knowing I have needs and selfishly meeting his own while ignorning mine....any longer. I would be a fool to do that. He believed me.
Back to that whore/madonna thing. I suspect your H may suffer from some degree of this as well (although he may not)....because he sounds like he was raised EXACTLY like my H...and had some similar experiences.
Whore/Madonna for my H (and it does vary) basically means.....he marries and falls in love with a woman he respects, admires, and reveres....sounds great huh? The problem is....because he respect me so much, he would never think of defiling me (creating children is procreating, not "sex", so it's not defiling). He put me on a pedestal I never asked to be on. He viewed women that he would have sex with completely different....those women are "sluts", not someone he respected, not someone he would ever consider marrying or having as the mother of his children.....they are someone to be defiled.
Men like my H have a VERY hard time reconciling that his wife is also a sexual person, honestly it took therapy to get him to see me in that light. Does that mean he doesn't think I am beautiful or sexy? Nope...doesn't mean that at all, it means that somewhere in his mind....there is something that keeps him from "defiling" me....and he has to learn (literally learn) to see me for the wonderful sexual woman I am.
I caution you to keep your expectations low if this is the case with your H....what you want, sexually speaking, may be something that your H simply cannot give you. At least not easily or quickly. If he does suffer from this he may improve (mine has) but be careful of trying to turn him into something you think he should be, of having him live up to an ideal in your mind....that's a big trap for both of you.
Corri's book is also a wonderful recommendation and something to consider.
Thank-you both for posting. I ordered the book already, thank-you so much. I really think u are onto something with the whore/ madonna complex. I have this very slutty friend who my husband thinks is so dirty or so he says, but when he is around her he makes sexual comments and gazes at her. He would never act like that in front of my other friends. As for the porn thing, my husband does look at it from time to time but usually I am in the room. He has no idea how to use a chat room and we don't have a web cam. We used to occassionally watch porn because it would get him in the mood but now it just enrages me that he needs someone else to turn him on and specifically that I cannot. I will take you advice and try not to get ahead of myself and expect too much. I feel like maybe I left it too late, I feel so broken and vulnerable and resentful. I really need to get back to a more positive approach and both of u have really helped me with that!
A couple of things. Don't underestimate what you H can do on the computer. My H IS NOT computer savvy, but the guys he works with helped guide him to AFF (adultfriendfinder.com). Also, you don't need a webcam to view someone else's. It's at least a plust that he does view it in front of you....so that right there, tells you his "I don't think about sex." is absolute bunk.
I REALLY recommend finding a good therapist, someone who will see you both together, and individually. Someone who specializes in marital issues specifically. Call around, if you have insurance that covers counseling ask them for a list of recommendations. Then phone several of the people on the list and ask for a phone interview (that's how I selected the therapist who DID end up helping us the most.) Let him/her know you DON'T want to D and that you are wanting to avoid that, and give him/her a brief accounting of the sitch. The responses you receive will IMPO tell you who to go with. Many therapists never called me back, some would simply refuse to speak to me for a few minutes. The one who actually called me back and gave me some time on the phone is the one we went with. She obviously cared and wanted to help.
I agree if he is looking at it he is thinking about sex, just not with me! For years I was concerned he was fooling around or had some fetish he was not willing to talk about, or that he may be Gay. His best friend said he was wierd when they were younger, women would come onto my H and he would make out with them for show but rarely go home with any of them (the friend says the ones he did go home with were the sluttier ones).
I was so convinced that it was me, that I encouraged him to be with other women hoping he would have some sort of epipheny and leave me or get aroussed somehow again, that is when he stopped going out entirely come to think of it. I think the suggestion he be with other women was very ill-directed on my part and coming from an irrational place. Actually I read some article suggesting it as a solution and that got me started (foolish). I will still make every effort to see if he is having an affair of some kind and will not close the door on that notion. He has been at work every time I have called, he comes home immediately after by 4pm. Sometimes I stop in unannounced he is always there. Only men work in the office. The last time he was out on his own other than with my Dad, they are always golfing etc...was about 6 months ago and he was with mutual friends of ours at the bar.
Even my parents are aware of our issues and think it is really upsetting, they love him dearly, but my mom said her heart is breaking for me. My parents have a really close intimate relationship and have always had outstanding communication. My mom thinks he is really repressed and that he doesn't want to face his emotions because it is to scary. We never argue or fight except about this when I bring it up, he avoids conflict at all cost, meaning he will say whatever it takes to get out of the situation at the time. I am just reading up on the Whore/Madonna complex and it sure fits in with my husband. If u happen to read this again was this complex the main issue u dealt with in therapy or one of many? Did it help? Thanx everyone!
It was one of many. Honestly we had to work on our communication first...but our therapist was aware from the get-go about our sexual dilemna. My H had to learn to stop reading things into what I would say to him...assuming I meant something I didn't, assuming I was out to prove him wrong about everything or make him look dumb/stupid etc. He had issues to deal with from past R's that rubbed off in our M. He often assumed a defensive posture with me because he assumed I'd behave the way some of the women in his past would...to any given comment or situation, but my personality is MUCH different from those women.
Communication and preconceived notions were the two hardest things to overcome. Communication regarding saying what we REALLY felt/though, and preconceived notions as to who we thought the other should be in our M. I thought that the man in a marriage should want sex x# of times and be the one to initiate primarily, and even initiate in a certain way....had to let that go and let him be who he is, the way he is. He OTOH...had to learn to start stepping up and meeting the needs I TOLD him I required, at least some of the time....and stop assuming I'm always out make him look dumb/stupid (he was always told how dumb he was or made to feel less than adequate about his job by women in his past).
FWIW, my H was a BIG conflict avoider too when it came to me...he's doing better now. I'll write more on all of this tomorrow.
I want to make sure that I'm clear about this...I'm NOT saying that your H is having an affair ok? It's just been my experience that if he's not coming to you...he has a substitute of some type that fulfills that need. For my H it was his online sexual activity....for yours, it might be porn. Whatever it is...he's not turning that sexual energy towards you, but away from you where it's possible he feels safer.
My H had become programmed to honestly believe that women REALLY don't want sex, that he was on his own for it. Now it's very hard for him to change that behavior and believe I truly want that as part of our relationship. His programming kind of reinforced his whore/madonna complex...nice married women don't want it. yada, yada, yada.
My suggestion for installing a keylogger was really so that you can find out what he's doing....it IS very possible he looks at porn much more than you "think" he does. I was absolutely stunned when I saw how often my H looked online....and he was someone who if you had asked me previously I would have told you "would never do that, or wouldn't have time to do it."....he made the time, he took advantage of most of the times I was asleep and he wasn't....or I stepped out to run errands, or came home late from work....you name it.
well it is true he had been getting his fix on-line more than i thought. We started seeing someone and it is already getting better. He has the madonna/whore complex bad! We are working on that right now among other issues. Thank-you so much for all your help and insight!
I'm sorry that I was right, but glad that it wasn't an affair too. Please feel free to e-mail me anytime you want to talk about this....I'm not on here very often anymore, but will be happy to provide any support I can. anitam@nordam.com
It's going to take time (and no telling how much of it) to start behaving differently. It's going to be tough for you to be patient about it too. Hopefully though the knowledge that this really isn't about you helps ease some of your insecurities and doubts about yourself.
