Screwing it all up yet somehow I don't care

[GratefulMama0204]

Basics:
*Me: 31
*H:28 [29 next week]
*S4 [almost 5]
*S2 [3 in May]
*Together 6 years, married almost 4
*ILYBNILWY, maybe never loved you. . . bomb November 05
*Separated Mid December 05
*Found out about affair early January as a result of internet history search where chica talked about sleeping with him on a message board.
*H wanted to file early January, I filed to maintain my sense of "this is not being done TO me, I am making this choice" in mid February.
*Slept together immediately upon the announcement, then at least monthly until February when he *wanted* me so badly that he started *cheating* regularly on her with me. It was purely physical when in our entire relationship our sexlife had been magical/spiritual/souls-connecting/wowzers.
*2 weeks prior to final judgment/court appearance, he aseked to try to work things out [April 06] I took him back
*moved back in Mid June.

Since then, I have become him. I have not *cheated* yet I am having an EA with a friend. My friend is also married. We cae about each other, and he gives me the attention, affection, and validation that my H to this day does not.

I have gone two 3 different T and left the first two because they just saw the R as doomed. H is too controlling, judgmental, makes me a shell of myself, wanted to help me become stronger in order to leave him.

And my H is all of those things. He is emotionally immature. He is unable to talk about anything *important.* Although he procalims that sex with me is the best he has ever experienced, he WILL NOT initiate, and it is always me serving him without even minimal boobie-touching on my end. I am so completely dissatisfied.

I went into the black hole, climbed my way out, while stumbling many times, became myself again, free, accepting of our imminent D, only to get back with him and feel like I have become a shadow of my true self. The times in my life that I have been truly me, accepting myself, accepting of life, have been when he has not been there to pick at me, make me question my worth.

I do not feel that he even likes me. I do not feel accepted. I performed a ritual [hokey, I know] where I burnt sage, and dark memories, said prayers. . . anf he knew that I was creating a mini-bonfire in our backyard, and even out of basic curiousity, he never asked what I did, the meaning, anything. I feel like he could care less about my inner life.

He has banished me from being friends with a mutual guy friend of ours becase the friend was my support during the A. And afterward, I defended his telling me the truth about friend's knowledge about what had been going on. Bros before hos, right? So now, the person, who sat with me when I did not know how I would make it to tomorrow, I am no longer allowed to talk to, because OBVIOUSLY he wants me.

I am frustrated. I pay the super-majority of all of the bills, I work 20+ more hours than him, yet he gets upset with me about the house being messy. Says that if I cared about him I would make an effort to show him through action, ie, being a damn maid. . .when he is essentially the SAHD.

I wonder why I am with him. . . what the hell benefit I get out of the relationship. . . HE gets bills paid, home cooked meals, porn-star sex, and I get. . . the feeling that I am never good enough. I had a sex boycott for 3 weeks because I was aware that he had not even touched my breasts in at least a month. I am not even talking about nether regions... just up-top. I am now paranoid about my naught bit because he only goed there out of obligation, not desire. I never felt like that was a yucky part of me. I always felt that boys should be thankful to be graced with naughtybit's presence, yet now. . . *I* am the one who pushes him away because I feel like I must be gross.

So, I am hanging out with an unavailable guy, talking, sharing all of my problems, crying on his shoulder, letting him make me feel like I am something that has value in the world. . . when all I want is for my H to see some redeeming quality in me.

I have talked to him, told him all about my issues... NOTHING changes. He says that when I talk about my sex issues, it turns him off. He feels like I am a broken record when I talk about my emotional issues. He has heard it before, so no need to discuss again.

Yet nothing has changed.

I really feel like my marriage is not worth saving. YET, I have 2 beautiful boys who will be devastated if Daddy moves out again.

Any insight?


My H dropped the bomb the day after Thanksgiving '05. I found out Ney Years Day it Might have to do with my best friend, and shortly thereafter found out he was "in love with her." He had moved out in mid-December 05.

He pushed HARD for divorce. I told him to pursue his relationship, that ultimately I only wanted his happiness, and if he needed to explore his love with her I would not stand in his way.

Noble huh? Well, that was one side of me. And sometimes I truly lived in that side, knowing full well that in the light of day the A would never survive. And by my supporting him, loving him throughout...yada, yada, yada, he would find his way back home.

[Heywyre]

Hi GM

Sorry you have had to come to these boards but you couldn't be in a better place to voice your feelings and emotions. There are a great bunch of people here that will help you through whatever stage of your R you are in.

I don't know if I really can give you much in the way of advice, being I am a newbie (to some degree) too. But, based on what you have said so far, you really need to get out of that other relationship you are in so you can clear your head and start taking some action in YOUR life.

You have two little ones that need you 100% - that is your main priority. Trust me, you are young and the sex might be fireworks now, but that isn't what keeps a R together, not longterm anyway.

Sounds to me like you might be going through some depression so you might want to make a visit to your local GP to see if he might want you on some mild anti-depressants. I hate taking meds but I can tell you, if it hadn't been for them when my H had his first A (he's had two now) I would have gone insane. They were a real lifesaver for me at the time. This time around, I seem to be handling for the time being, but somedays I feel like I am on the edge again so I am keeping a close eye on things. It will also help you to sort things out in your life a little easier. It doesn't cure the ailment but it sure helps you to see things more rationally - which you aren't right now

Take a step back GM - you really need to get some things in order so you can look at this whole sitch with a clear mind (which is not easy to do right now)

Good luck hun !

[cat03]

Noble huh?

No, I dont' think so. Did it hurt when your H cheated on you? If yes, why are you doing this same thing by having an EA? haven't you learned anything? Using your "friend" as a bandaid just complicates him and destroys another M. If your friend has a spine he will be a man to his wife and stop messing w/you and you should know better.

Your H seems to still be in MLC stage, in which everything is your fault and he's just fine. How long that will last? how long can you wait in that awful limbo? who knows, could be a few months 'til he realizes the damage he is causing.

You need to talk to a T instead of having an EA, your H hasn't grown up yet. Find yourself again, you dont' need your H to be whole.

[grasshopper]

GM,

Well, I could comment more on a lot of that, but what jumped out at me was that you say, or at least imply that you have explicitly told your H what you need sexually and he has failed to deliver.

My W claims the same thing to an extent and I can tell you that she NEVER clearly defined what it was she wanted or didn't want and when she did try to communicate it, it was not in a language I understood.

I know I could be dead wrong about this, but to continue down that path, the way I see it, my W was the one who thought there was a problem she desperately wanted to solve (our whole R was going down the tubes and this was one major part of it) so to get that point across, she yelled at the top of her lungs in a language I didn't understand.

To me, when it's you that knows there's a problem, and want to communicate that to someone, it's on you to learn their language. I don't go to Germany to tell them about a plot to do harm to their country and get upset when they don't understand English.

I know this is over-simplifying, or even not on the mark, but I guess I am just trying to caution you against thinking that what you feel has been CLEARLY communicated has been CLEARLY heard by your H.

We men have a really different language when it comes to certain things, and sex is one of them.

Beyond that, yea, it sounds like your H has some deep issues but I agree with the others, that doesn't give you the right to act like an a$$ like he did. If you find yourself unable to continue in the marriage, and have "earned" your way out, i.e. done all you could to save it, which it seems you are well on your way to doing, then fine, get the D and start dating. Before that, you need to stick to working on your own happiness as derived from internal sources and not use someone else as a crutch, that may or may not be there for you long-term.

You are experiencing the same exact feelings that led your H to hurt you so deeply and by doing it yourself, you are in effect condoning it. Is that really what you're saying? That because he was somehow dissatisfied with you, it was ok to have an affair? I think not...in both cases.

I would love to know what you think you know about his side of the story. I am not saying you're misleading us at all, but there are two sides, neither probably right or wrong 100% and I'm sure his version of your life together would not paint you as the spectacular, giving, porn-star sex performing, loving, wonderful-in-every-way wife.

The truth probably lies somewhere in between but until you understand more (or maybe you do understand and could express that here) about what his perspective, however skewed or "wrong" it is, you likely won't get very far.

Bottom line is that if you want to get a D, then get one. If you don't, then we're here to help you examine your sitch and support you as you try to find ways to make it better.

Please take care and realize that no matter what, you're among friends.

GH

[GratefulMama0204]

So glad you chimed in GH, you always seemed to get things on the wavelength that I am traveling.

I think I am *becoming* him as a result of my inherent judgment on the way he handled things. By judging him, I have to live the turmoil he felt. . .or at least that is the way karma has always worked for me. As soon as I sit in judgment of another I find myself in their shoes.

The Four Agreements was my stepping stone back to health last year, and somehow, despite knowing that it is *me* that needs fixing, I am just tired. So damn tired.

Told EA guy today that I can no longer talk to him. Unhealthy for both of us. I will continue that distance.

Yet, I am on eggshells every moment I am with H. We had a HUGE fight last night because he did now want me to look at the mail, sift through it, organize it. He was ANGERED to the extreme that I would not heed his admonishment to NOT look at it. Yet I did not feel like he had the right to tell me to NOT look at the mail. If he did not want to acknowledge the huge pile, so be it. That does not mean I shouldn't.

I asked what the real issue was, it certainly could not be about the mail. . . and he said the issue is that even when he feels *strongly* about something, I will not listen.

I guess in that instance it is true, yet I then asked him, why if he had *strong issues* about something, why he felt the need to enforce them on me. That he should follow his own internal needs, and I should follow mine. That his need to not look at the mail should mean he does not look at it. I can look at it, not discuss it with him, and wait for a time that he is ready to talk about the mail. Or never talk about it, whatever. Simply because he does not want to think about it should not preclude me from checking it out.

Sigh, Got to the point of me wanting to stay at my mom's last night. Over the freakin mail. And him wanting me to as well.

Man do we have freakin issues.

As far as the sex goes, yes it is porn star quality. All fantasies accepted and played out, for him at least. Over the years I have figured out his secrets and play them out for him, EVERY time. And luckily, making him happy also excites me, so I do have happy endings. I just am sick of his not having any desire to make me *crazy* and his willingness to accept my giving it all to him because he knows in the end, I also will finish.

Why not make an effort to curl my toes as well?

And we have talked, and talked about it, I have done everything I can imagine, sexy clothes, naughty talk, initiating, then waiting for him to initiate. . . toys, stories, EVERYTHING I can think of to make him want it. \

He just says he is a sexual camel. So be it. That does not explain his lack of desire to pleasure me.

I went through the betrayal diet, I look better than I have in years, and yet, the most intense that he has wanted me was when he was with OW.

I am so freakin tired of all of this.

Intellectually/politically/as parents we are compatible. Spiritually and emotionally we are on opposite spectrums.

I just question the value.

I do not want to D him. I want a way for us to be happy together.

My T asked what it would take for me to be happy in the R, and my answer was feeling accepted, loved, valued for who I am. I feel like the things that I see as being my BEST qualities are ones that he either can no longer see, OR he sees as issues that I have,

I am incredibly compassionate and empathetic. I can easily be laughing, then tell him about the issues a friend is going through with the delivery of her child and wind up in tears, remembering the scary of the birth of our first son. So he tells me I am emotionally unstable.

I was at the mechanic yesterday, and tears popped in my eyes because the idea of driving a car that might fall apart as I was driving the kid's home scared me.

Many would find that endearing, he rolls his eyes and says I need to get it together.

Sigh.

I know he has his own side. I know I *am* annoying, forgetful, absentminded. I live in my heart, my head, and *real-world stuff* slips my mind, like checking the mail. . . or whatever other menial task that I managed to forget. I am messy as all get out. I annoy the crap out of him. Yet, this is who I have always been, nothing new has cropped up.

I even tried to get put on drugs for ADD so that I would not be so damn annoying, even thought I *like* the way my mind works.

sigh

[cat03]

before you mention ADD that's what I was thinking, how are you doing on them? my H is ADHD, isnt' taking anything, I do know that meds help a whole lot though. Living w/an ADD/ADHD is pretty hard if the spouse doesn't know about the condition, I know my M suffered because neither of us knew he had it, so I would get horribly frustrated. Even now that I know and have researched and read lots it is still hard. Have you help him understand ADD? could you guys read "delivered from distraction" together.

Huge congrats on breaking it off w/the EA guy, please stay away and let him figure himself out, a person who has any kind of A has issues to deal with, and you have enough on your your own to deal w/his.

As far as the stories you told your H in which you cry, not many men would conmiserate, a woman would've had, not many man. To most men, like my H, tears mean either manipulation or dissapointment on their men or hysterics.

Glad to hear you continue to see a T. It isn't about the mail, it is about him, something is eating at him and he either needs a T or time on his own, he's got huge anger issues and isnt' ready to give you anything right now. That doesn't mean you can't continue to DB your butt off.

Would he see a C or T? does he acknowledge he has issues at all?

[grasshopper]

You're welcome.

I would reply in kind to your last post, but in it's entirety, I still sense a real lack of understanding that HIS perspective is different.

Sure, to YOU the sex is porn-star quality and even describing it as such leads me to believe that you have some preconceived notion of what sex SHOULD be to a man, and more than that, to your H. You talk of learning his secrets and living them out...maybe he didn't want that? Maybe they were his secrets and he wanted to keep them that way. Hell, even if I liked to imagine (and I am not saying I do for God's sake, lol) sock puppets doing reenactments of Hamlet when I ML, I would be mortified if my W showed up with socks on her hands the next night saying something about ghosts and danger.

My point is that it SOUNDS like all of what you think you know about your H is based on your perception of the world and how things should be. Obviously, he doesn't share that perception.

Are you SURE he values the things you have done in the bedroom? From what you said, he doesn't so much and yet you say you were doing them for him...so why not stop and find out what he really does like? I think in reality, what you have done in the bedroom, and in the entire relationship is much more about what YOU want, which is fine for sure, but don't get mad when it turns out that he doesn't like it. I should know, I did the same thing in my marriage.

I know in my case this is true. I THOUGHT everything I did was about HER, but in truth, it was about me wanting to think I had things figured out, that I was the perfect husband, father, etc. When I started to find out that I was not those things, the $hit hit the fan big time.

My entire self-esteem was wrapped up in being the perfect man for her but you know what? I left out one VERY important step...finding out what that was. I ASSUMED, based on some stereotypical understand of what MOST women want, and my own "perception" that I knew what my W needed. BOY, I was wrong as hell.

When I started to understand what she really did want, it was too late...she was getting it from some other guy. When I found out that it really was ME, the REAL me, the me that existed before all the "trying to be perfect" came along, was the thing she REALLY wanted, I was devastated because it exposed the folly of what I was pretending to be all these years. I could have just been me and we'd BOTH been a lot happier. Instead I convinced myself that I needed to be different and in doing so, talked myself out of a pretty good marriage.

In your case, when he first met you your H didn't know anything about you as a wife, mother or anything else. In the beginning, there was ONLY the spiritual, only the "real you" that he got to know. Being that woman again, without all the added toys designed to be his "catnip" may make you a lot happier, and remind him of what he love about you in the first place.

GH

P.S. Either that, or I don't know what the hell I'm talking about...I'm split between the two, lol.