I am really hoping those dizzy spells are going away. That can be an indicator of severe stress!! Personal experience from the D. I had migraines, dizzy spells, and could not eat.
You do have an unusual circumstance with your son. And if your X is a controlling type, you might still be trying to live up to his expectations. You just have to do what you must and let go of those expectations. You have to KNOW in your heart (and I think you do) that you are doing the very best for your son and have his best interests at heart. Just be secure in that knowledge and let him cast his stones. If you're hurt by those comments, just don't let him on to it, which I don't think you seem to do.
Like you pointed out, I really am not versed with the MLC stuff. I still maintain my ex was really going through some severe mental problems outside of MLC (which might have been a factor, but his behavior was way too weird to fit into any real "stages"--I just felt that he went through a few things together.)
If Chuckles doesn't think that anything is perfect, then he has the right to say something. You don't have to take it on though. It's hard to develop a thick skin with these guys, this much I know. My ex was very critical of me during the divorce...of course, I didn't match up to a dingaling bimbo who didn't give a hoot about her kids or the example she set for them. I mean after all, what woman in their right minds would call themselves a PayPal whore and get busted for felony drug theft when they have two small kids not even in kindgergarten?!?
So that said, I wondered about these guys' judgement abilities. I sometimes think their "perfectionism" is a cover for their insecurities or guilt. Maybe your ex wants everything to look "right" but doesn't have the guts or desire to help out and MAKE it better with some of his efforts too?
There is just something about men in midlife who go through this strangeness. I never would have pegged my ex as strange as he became when we married. But I guess there was something inside of him that needed to be medicated through teenage sex, drugs, and rock and roll behavior. You can't tell me someone who's done some of the baloney our exes have done can't have some guilt inside of them. Problem is they can't deal with it through showing remorse or even giving anyone an apology.
Yeah I know about dodging bullets. And I am sooooo happy I don't have to deal with my ex in any way right now. I reckon that day will come sometime in the not to distant future. We have at least three graduations with the girls in the next few years. The first happens next year when the oldest graduates with a PhD from Penn. I cannot imagine the ex NOT wanting to be there...this is a very significant family event. I just glad I'll have a year to steel myself for that one.
Yeah, Jilly and Leenie and I are supposed to get together in March. I need to get through some craziness here with a job offer and possible move first...then I'm going to absolutely need a wine guzzling pj party.
Hi Barb, Yes I'm about an hour away from Nanaimo on Vancouver Island. We always get pizza there before catching the ferry to Vancouver. Have you heard from Lyle? or Ward? I emailed Jackie the other day and got a reply back right away, she is doing good, and should be on the MLC success list!
You have started a great thread. It is not only for you, but all who come here and are dealing with GRIEF.
I would suggest that all who are dealing with the loss of their spouse, wether they are seperated, divorced, or in reconcilliation to read and learn about the subject of GRIEVING.
Experiencing the death of a loved one and experiencing the death of a marriage or the "old marriage" involves going through a grieving process.
When I see people who are experieincing the death of a loved one, I tell them this. GRIEVE WELL.
The majority of us don't know how to grieve. We were never taught how, and probably most of us have been told to not show our emotions. Or at some point told "get over it," or "it's time to move on."
Not showing our emotions is the worst thing we can do. You know why your spouse is going through MLC? They have not been able to express what they have been feeling since childhood and did not have their feelings validated.
What were MLC spouses told as children? "Stop your crying. You have no reason to feel that way."
A MLC spouse has suppressed their feelings since childhood.
How many LBS have said, "I had no idea my H/W was feeling unhappy, dissapointed, unfulfilled, lost, scared, depressed, unappreciated, unloved, not needed, not good enough, not appreciated and many other feelings that were not being met?"
The MLC spouse has kept their feelings to themselves and not shared them with their spouse. Why? Because of FEAR OF REJECTION AND THEIR DOUBTS. Fear and doubt are very powerful.
What did they learn growing up? Don't share your feelings with the person closest to you because they will reject you and make you feel bad about yourself. They also learn that the people closest to you are not the ones who will meet your needs. They also learn the people closest to you can not be trusted to meeting your needs.
Have you ever heard people say that we marry someone just like one of our parents? There is a lot of truth to that.
When a spouse is entering MLC, he sees his or her spouse as their parent(s) who rejected them, would not validate what they are feeling and could not be trusted to meeting their needs and desires.
Their spouse, just like one or both of their parents, was not a place to go to get their NEEDS MET.
The MLC spouse learned to not trust their parent(s) with talking about their feelings, fears and doubts. Their relationship with their parent(s) was filled with great fear and doubt.
All of us have needs. When you feel you can not get them met from your spouse, you seek out something or someone else to fulfill those needs.
A MLC spouse may find comfort in alcohol, drugs, gambling, shopping, porno, sex, work, OW/OM or whatever they feel comforts them and helps them to feel okay about themselves.
These "drugs of choice" only touch the surface of their pain and numb it for a short period of time. It's like novacane (sp?) you get when you go to the dentist. It's a temporary fix for a deeper problem.
Barb, going on vacation is your 'drug of choice' in dealing with your pain. We all have a "drug of choice."
For me, work, involvement in industry associations are two of my "drugs of choice." It is my own personal escape from dealing with and facing my emotions. Beneath my emotions is the root of my problem.
My issues are about TRUSTING OTHERS FOR GETTING MY NEEDS MET, FEELING GOOD ENOUGH, FEELING IMPORTANT, FEELIN LOVED, FEELIN APPRECIATED, FEELING NEEDED, FEELING DESIRED.
All of these needs were unmet as a child. At least from my perspective growing up. I'm sure my parents thought they were meeting my needs and I know they did the best they could under the circumstances. But my needs were my needs and my desire to be heard and validated for having these feelings was pushed away.
My dad would say; "Not now. I don't have time." "I'm too busy now, how about later?" Later would never come, as when I asked again he would say, "I don't have time now."
How did I feel about these experiences with my father? Rejected, alone, abandoned, not good enough, not important enough, not loved, not appreciated, not needed.
Going to my mom for these needs was no better as she was dealing with both physical and emotional issues while growing up.
My mom was either not feeling well physically and was laying on the couch or in bed and unavailable to meet my needs. Or, she was emotionally depressed, high on prescriptions drugs, or had been drinking and was not available emotionally.
There were times when both my parents would meet some of my needs. But I could never trust them to consistently meet them. I never knew from day to day wether either one would be available physically or emotionally for me. I lived in a world of fear and doubt in terms of having my needs met.
Sorry I've gone off on a tangent about my past Barb. But hopefully by what I have shared you and others will be able to understand the MLC person and yourselves better.
I will end this post and start a new one as I have more to share about grieving.
Quote: “When a spouse is entering MLC, he sees his or her spouse as their parent(s) who rejected them, would not validate what they are feeling and could not be trusted to meeting their needs and desires.”
Paul,
This helps me to once again looking at things from my X’s perspective. When I can attribute some rationality to her irrational behavior, it allows me to by more empathetic towards her actions and diffuses the anger somewhat.
Regarding grieving, I am sure many have seen some things on “the stages of grieving.” Below is that information along with something else I found helpful on the subject:
Article on the 5 Stages of grieving and T.E.A.R.
From the TLC group in Dallas:
Curiously, most non-grief specialists commonly accept the definition of grief given in 1974. So what is grief and what produces it? A helpful equation, which proves itself daily in all instances is: Change=Loss=Grief.
This means that:
A change of circumstance of any kind (a change from one state to another) produces a loss of some kind (the stage changed from) which will produce a grief reaction.
The intensity of the grief reaction is a function of how the change-produced loss is perceived. If the loss is not perceived as significant, the grief reaction will be minimal or barely felt.
Significant grief responses which go unresolved can lead to mental, physical, and sociological problems and contribute to family dysfunction across generations.
So, are the 5 Stages without value? Not if they are used as originally intended, as The 5 Stages of Receiving Catastrophic News. One can even extrapolate to The 5 Stages of Coping With Trauma. Death need not be involved.
As an example, apply the 5 stages to a traumatic event most all of us have experienced: The Dead Battery! You're going to be late to work so you rush out to your car, place the key in the ignition and turn it on. You hear nothing but a grind; the battery is dead.
DENIAL --- What's the first thing you do? You try to start it again! And again. You may check to make sure the radio, heater, lights, etc. are off and then..., try again.
ANGER --- "%$@^##& car!", "I should have junked you years ago." Did you slam your hand on the steering wheel? I have. "I should just leave you out in the rain and let you rust."
BARGAINING --- (realizing that you're going to be late for work)..., "Oh please car, if you will just start one more time I promise I'll buy you a brand new battery, get a tune up, new tires, belts and hoses, and keep you in perfect working condition.
DEPRESSION --- "Oh God, what am I going to do. I'm going to be late for work. I give up. My job is at risk and I don't really care any more. What's the use".
ACCEPTANCE --- "Ok. It's dead. Guess I had better call the Auto Club or find another way to work. Time to get on with my day; I'll deal with this later."
This is not a trivial example. In fact, we all go through this process numerous times a day. A dead battery, the loss of a parking space, a wrong number, the loss of a pet, a job, a move to another city, an overdrawn bank account, etc. Things to remember are:
Any Change Of Circumstance can cause us to go through this process.
We don't have to go through the stages in sequence. We can skip a stage or go through two or three simultaneously.
We can go through them in different time phases. The dead battery could take maybe 5 to 10 minutes, the loss of a parking space 5 to 10 seconds. A traumatic event which involves the Criminal Justice System can take years.
The intensity and duration of the reaction depends on how significant the change-produced loss is perceived.
T.E.A.R. Grief professionals often use the concept of "Grief Work" to help the bereaved through grief resolution. One common definition of Grief Work is summarized by the acronym TEAR:
T = To accept the reality of the loss E = Experience the pain of the loss A = Adjust to the new environment without the lost object R = Reinvest in the new reality
This is Grief Work. It begins when the honeymoon period is over, the friends have stopped calling, everyone thinks you should be over it, the court case is resolved, "closure" has been effected, and everything is supposed to be back to normal. It's at this point that real grieving begins.
Notice that the first step of Grief Work is ACCEPTANCE, the last stage of the 5 Stages of Grief. Let's throw out the 5 stages of grief and replace it with a greater understanding of Grief Recognition and Resolution.
Quote: TLC Group grants anyone the right to use this information without compensation so long as the copy is not used for profit or as training materials in a profit making activity such as workshops, lectures, and seminars, and so long as this paragraph is retained in its entirety.
Committed2Him- "C2H" All Things (Back from Spain!)...18
So there are a couple of more people here from BC. My parents live on the Island near Naniamo. I go to the Island on occasion to see them. Love to know if anyone is from the interior (Okanagan).
I apologize for the delay in replying but I have barely had a minute to myself in the past week. The dizziness and yuck feeling didn't help.
Yes, we sure spent most of our time here on the bb in the old days, now didn't we? Thank God for this place, though, cause we surely would have gone Nuts without the support and understanding we got from each other.
Ya know, his calls and my question opened up many discussions and ponderings but I truly haven't given anything he has done much weight. And its all but forgotten now, but I do think this subject was something we all needed to talk about - grief, loss, forgiveness, awakenings etc. Not because we want them back when it has gone this far, but because with understanding comes further healing. And there's always room for that.
I want to know why you had to endure 2 days with your Ex and OW. You are much stronger than me, girlfriend - I do NOT have anything to do with those nuts. Do tell...
I'm leaving tommorrow, Tuesday. Going to meet Karen and Beth and Ellie and perhaps another friend or 2. Wish you could join us. Someday...
