New here - W unwilling to work on it

[30andLost]

Update:

I went over to get the kids to school on my regular Thursday yesterday. While I was there she offered me a cup of coffee. Not to make it for me or anything, but she said "there's coffe made if you want some." In a nice voice and everything. I told her "No, but thank you." That seemed good to me.

When I picked up the kids that night and took them home. I noticed the dishwasher needed to be emptied so I did that and put the few dishes in the sink back in the empty dishwasher. She hates to empty the dishwasher so I thought that this would be nice for her. When she got home again I immediately left before she could even close the door when she walked in not even looking at her but just saying bye to the kids. She texted me later saying thank you for emptying the dishwasher. Another little good thing. She also called but I was in my SLAA meeting so I couldn't answer, which is good because I probably would have answered had I not been busy.

I called her back around 9 and she was in bed and told me to call her this morning around 6 so we could talk about her February work schedule. Our anniversary is Feb 22 and I planned (and paid for) a weekend out of town on the 23,24,25. So I was immediately paniced that she was going to work one of those days so we couldn't go, effectively cancelling our anniversary plans.

I wrote my question to her to hold those days open so that I was kind and loving and not accusing. I said, "You don't have to committ to anything right now, or make a decision, but would you be willing to hold the weekend of the 23rd open?" She said, "For our Anniversary trip?" I said, "Yes." She said "Yes. I can hold those days open for now."

This is a true breakthrough for me! It means that she isn't abandoning our future yet! I still need to just keep working my SLAA recovery, therapy, and DR techniques. It seems that when I truly do give her absolute space and absence from me, that she really turns the corner. I have to keep this up, no matter what personal pain it causes me.

Hopefully if I give her absolute darkness until Feb 13, I may be able to buy her something for V-day.

I'll keep you posted.

[30andLost]

I planned some GAL activity that may rub my estranged W the wrong way and I was hoping for some advice with how to respond to her in a 'Kind & Loving' manner when/if she asks about it. Or, if I should be up front with her so that it doesn't appear as though I'm hiding anything from her.

Before you answer, let me give you some more details about the situation. Since I left her and had one more night with OW before I cleared my head, she has been going out on every free night she has with her single friends to bars. I truly believe she is only doing this to have fun, not to pick up on guys and try to replace me. I have to trust that, she has never given me a reason to think otherwise (although my love-addict brain continually makes stuff up that drives me crazy, but I'm getting a handle on that). And what I have been doing is thinking about her constantly and worrying if/when she will ever take me back.

So, I have decided myself to stop this, and to GAL and go visit a friend of mine that is out of town. He is a friend that both of us have known for some time and I just need a break from my own insecurities and to spend time with friends, just like she does. Now, this friend lives in Vegas. Does that make it worse than if, say, he lived in Toledo, OH? I think not, but the perception will be there.

So I'm just looking for some pointers as to how to not attack what she's doing, in defending what I'm doing. And also to explain to her why I'm going in the event that she asks. Make sense?

Thanks for your help.

[Sailors_Girl]

Agreed

[30andLost]

I had a significant challenge today to my resolve to be a changed man.

I was checking my e-mail this morning and noticed that my W had sent an e-mail to her mom with some pictures in it. Since it was in my e-mail, I opened it up. I discovered that she got a tatoo over an old tatoo that had my name in it.

At first I was livid, insecure, and wanted to know right away what it meant. I called her, she was in class with her phone off so I didn't leave a VM. I texted her asking "Please call me on your way to work." I am glad that is all I did. I then texted her "Nevermind."

I have to hold onto hope that she hasn't filed for Divorce and that covering the tatoo can mean the worst, but I could also be reading too much into it and push her away by grilling her about it. So if she decides to show it to me, she doesn't yet know that I know about it, I will just say, "It looks good. That old tatoo did need to be fixed somehow" and leave it at that.

I feel comfortable with this and will only get more comfortable with it as time passes. I have to believe that God is watching out for me and will let my marriage work if he chooses and if it is in my best interest. If not, I have to be ok with myself in knowing that I've done all I can.

Let me know what you think. Or if I should take a different approach.

Thanks!

[Sailors_Girl]

Hey 30

Again I agree with Jazz!

Something that has helped me is what someone told me here...and that is before you do anything...like call or text your W...think about your motivation behind your decision and if it will ultimately help towards your goal. This has helped me massively! so I hope you find it helpful too.

You need to be careful not to sound desperate towards your W, coz she will see it as you pursuing her which will put pressure on her...and you dont want that. I think if you can remember the above it might help.

You need to think about what the important things are...and what can be let slide. I think if you do comment you should leave off the end bit - the bit about it needing to be fixed and just stick to it looks good...simple and making no big deal of it.

Just as an insight as to where your W may be at...is that if you do chase after her, she'll feel even worse within herself than what she probably already does...coz right now, she would have some pretty conflicting thoughts and emotions running through her mind and heart. Remember that she needs time to heal.

Have you read any other books, at the moment I'm reading 5LL and it is truly insightful...maybe reading more might be something that helps you too.

Stay positive, stay focused and be strong

Dont beat yourself up anymore, but do remember your W needs time and space to heal, just be there for her when you can, I know I would have loved for my H to be there for me through this...

Take care,
SG

[30andLost]

Hello everyone. I've had quite the past two days. Let me share:

The other night I was talking to W about bills and she was getting frustrated trying to figure out the passwords and things so I decided to ask how she was doing. She said that she is really stressed about school and work and taking care of the kids. She also said that my running out the door without even saying "Hi" to her upsets her and makes her think I'm just being a dick. So the extreme LR that I have been doing may be too much. I guess I need to keep up with the LR, but also add in time to be her friend on a very limited basis.

I had my counseling session yesterday morning and my counselor told me that she is amazed at the completely different person that I am today than what I was two weeks ago. She then strongly encouraged me to ask the W if I could share my progress with her. The counselor told me to be sure to only focus on the changes in me and not to get into any R talk or future talk and if she attacks me to not react to it, but to stay focused on my problems that I have found and am working on.

So I called the W and left a voicemail asking if I could share with her my progress and that I'd like to talk to her but if she'd prefer I could just send it in an e-mail or if she would prefer not to hear it at all I would understand and to just let me know what she decided.

She called me back a little later and said that she'd listen to me but I couldn't talk about our R or future at all. I agreed to meet her at home after work.

I texted her and asked her if she would order a pizza since I would be over there. She replied "Ok."

After that she called and asked if I could pick up some things at the store for her. I agreed. She called back several times to add to the list before I left work. Once I was done with her shopping, I went to the house.

I unloaded the groceries and ate then asked her if she was ready. We went out back while the kids were eating and watching a movie. I told her about all of the things that I had discovered about myself most importantly the control that I placed on her. My first step in my SLAA program, my bottom-line behavior of control. I also told her (at the counselors suggestion) that the best example that I could give of my change in behavior is when I inadvertantly saw the picture of her new tattoo because it was sent from my e-mail account. I told her that I understood why she may be scared to share it with me due to my past controlling and insecure behavior. I told her that it looked great, and that I was sorry that she may have felt that she couldn't share it with me. I shared a little more about what I had discovered about myself and apologized for not finding my sickness earlier. All of this was pre-written so that I did not say the wrong thing. I actually read it from paper.

After I was done we talked for another hour. She actually brought up our future because she shared that she feels like its over. Kinda bad, but I'm proud of myself for not reacting like the old controlling insecure me! I just kept the focus on understanding her feelings and focusing on what I've done wrong. She also said that she misses everything about me that she fell in love with. She also said at one point when I was discussing the changes in me that she doesn't want me to change the things she fell in love with. I explained to her the two halfs of me, the one half that is who she fell in love with, and the other half that is a co-dependant love addict that could never feel loved because I couldn't love myself. And that I was working to kill that second person and replace him with a whole person. She said that she still doesn't want a Divorce because she is scared that she may regret it two months down the road because she doesn't know what her feelings will be like then.

So, even though she said some hurtful things like that she thinks it's over, I have to keep hope in the fact that she doesn't yet KNOW it's over. I did have some ILY's in there but just a few. I have to keep changing me, that's my focus. I asked her to not listen to my words because I know they mean nothing right now, but to watch my actions and to notice the changes that I am making in myself. She said she would.

I am MOST proud of the fact that from that conversation, I can SEE the changes that ARE happening in me. I didn't react in an insecure manner to her hurtful statements. I kept my head straight and focused on the problems with me, and no probing questions about where she thinks we are headed. I can't believe who I was last night. I am still wondering if it was real.

Thanks for all your help. Write me back and let me know how you think I did. I'm picking up the kids again tonight because she works late and I'm staying a little extra so that she can go tan. No ILY or IMU and still keeping to my 'soft' LR technique.

Thanks again!

[30andLost]

One more thing...Valentine's Day? What to do?

I know I can't get her anything from me, but I was thinking of getting her something from the kids. I was also thinking about getting her best friend, her only support right now, something from our kids also. I was going to get them both an hour massage at this nice spa that she likes. I was also going to include a note to the friend from our boys that thanked her for being their mom's "rock" while the rest of her life crumbles around her. I was also going to include a note to the W from the boys that says thank you for being a good mom, and we're proud of you for going to school. And some other stuff, but nothing like "Will you take my dad back." because that would be catastrophic for me, and I know this!

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks!

[30andLost]

I'm getting all kinds of mixed signals from her now.

I talked to her this morning about our finances. Since I left and she won't take me back, she has been spending like CRAZY on our Visa and checking account! I finally had enough and decided that "Ok, no matter what happens with us, I don't want a huge pile of debt on top of everything else." So I decided to have a talk with her.

I wrote up what I wanted to say so that I could filter out all of the accusatory language and anything that pointed the finger at her. I have been spending money too, but not at the torrid pace that she has been going. So the wording was all "we" and "our" so that she would know that I acknowledge that I'm spending too. I also told her that I understood that she needed to spend some money to help her cope with the pain that I had caused her. In the end, she just agreed that she was spending too much money and would stop. Just like that. So that was WAY easier than I thought.

I also offered to her that we cancel our Anniversary trip on the weekend of the 23rd. I told her that I was concerned that this was putting too much pressure on her too soon and that although I wanted to work on us, I was willing to be patient and go according to her schedule. She didn't say, "Yeah, I don't really want to go." She just said, "We don't have the money anyway and it does take pressure off of me." So, again, not too bad of a reaction.

BUT, I know she is really HATING me right now, which is ok. This is why: I then asked her, "I have one more thing I want to ask of you. Would you let me invade your space for 30 seconds, and trust me in those 30 seconds not to hurt you?" After a few back and forths of "It depends on what you're gonna do." And me "I'm just asking that you trust me." She said ok. I got close to her, and asked her if I could hug her. She agreed but I can't remember if it was a "whatever," a "sure," or an "I'd love you to." (OK, I know it wasn't the last one!) So I did. While I was holding her, she put her arms around me but it wasn't an embrace, it was more like a place to put her arms so they wouldn't be at her sides. I also told her while I was holding her that I was sorry for all of the pain I've caused her. 30 seconds was up so I let go.

Right after that, she smirked while asking, "Does that make you feel better?" I amost have to laugh at this now. She has SOOOO much hate for me, it's almost funny. What else can I do but laugh at her sinister little smirk. All I said in response was, "I can see so much hate in you." And she replied, "there sure is."

I really think that she's breaking down behind her wall of hatred. She is nice to me and we have VERY small chit-chat when exchanging the kids, but the positive signs are there. I still don't have Divorce papers, so I still have a shot. I really think that she really does love me, and sees the changes in me, but won't let down her guard or be vunerable for a second due to what I've done with her, and I'm fine with that. I just know that time is my friend. Every day without D papers is a day on my side to reconciliation.

So anyways, I guess I'm at about a 6 on the (1 depressed, 10 exhilirated) happyness scale. I have to be. No matter what happens, I have to be ok with me.

I know I took a HUGE risk with the hug, but I wanted to give it a try, and I think it turned out ok. She didn't say no! Some part of her probably wanted me to hold her, even if she couldn't admit it because I'm an a-hole!

Talk to you soon.

[Go Fish]

30andlost

I jumped over to your post to thank you for your comments on abandonment. I was hoping that you could give me a little more insight, although you gave me so much already. The important thing that i took from your message is that abandoned adults look for love and when they think that they have exhausted what you have to offer, they look elsewhere. What is your take on some of these comments that I got from H when we were still living together
1. You don't really love me, if you really do you would be treating my so much better.
2. You used me and got just what you wanted. I was your sperm donor and now you can go back to mommy and daddy with your kids and live a really happy life?
3. I do NOT have abandonment issues! I grew up in a loving family that adopted me and treated me like their own child. There is no way that your therapist and mine can even think that!

H also drinks to excess. Once he starts he has trouble stopping. At least he did have this problem when I moved out.

Now my BIG question to you is this: should I keep trying to show him through little ways and bigger changes on my part, that I will NOT be the next one to abandon him? He was left at 4 mos. old by his biological mother, Wife #1 left him, adopted mother died, and now I'm the last woman in his life (other than our daughter). What are your thoughts.

Thank you so much for your perspective. I haven't been able to find anyone who could help me!

[30andLost]

Go Fish, I'll respond more to your post later today when I have some time. For now I need to confess a slip.

I slipped today from the DB tactics and my new control of self. I watched the kids last night because she worked so when she came home this morning I wanted to talk. I had been feeling REALLY lost for the past two days and just wanted to know if there was hope. I lost sight of the fact that hope lies in the fact she hasn't filed for divorce. I also lost sight of the fact that only God knows the outcome of our situation and nothing I can do right now can help it, I can only hurt it.

So anyways, I slipped because I told her that I missed her, not just recently or on a specific day, but that I miss her in general. I also told her that "I think you already know this but, I really want to come home." She responded with "I think you know that I don't want you to come home." I also told her that I was just feeling lost. She responded by telling me thats exactly how she felt when her husband of 14 years walked out on her to go to OW. And that I will never understand the pain I have caused her. I told her I know what I did and I am sorry for it and that is why I'm working so hard to never hurt her like that again. I also just said that I think we can fix this. And that was it. She was going to bed and I was realizing how bad I was slipping so as hard as it was, I just walked away and left her alone.

I am going to apologize to her for my slip and not listening to her wishes when I drop the boys off today. Nothing major or groveling, just telling her "I realize what I did, it was wrong, I violated your space, I'm sorry, I will continue to work so that it doesn't happen again."

One slip, I just can't let it derail me and I must get back on track.

Thanks for listening...